Topic: need help playing/converting ALAC (Apple Lossless) Files in MC14 (Read 5614 times)

nickharambee · « **on:** September 06, 2009, 06:47:18 pm »

Hi

I was a very happy MC user for a number of years before switching to Macs, and, yes, I do miss it. I am now looking to use MC again, because of one feature in particular that I miss which is conversion on the fly from lossless format to lossy format when transferring to my iPod. iTunes only has this feature for the Shuffle.

So all of my music is in Apple Lossless format, and I have successfully added it to the MC Library and can play it using the quicktime engine. I then changed the conversion settings for my handheld to always convert to MP3, but when I try to sync the iPod the conversion doesn't work. MC quickly flashes various messages 'waiting, converting, error' next to some of the tracks I am trying to convert, and then within a few seconds I get the message that the conversion has finished.

I can transfer files directly to the iPod without conversion.

I have also tried installing the directshow filter dc-bass source, and selected this as source filter under filetypes (not sure what to select for other filters), in case the issue was with the quicktime engine, but I can't even playback my lossless files with this, i just get an error message saying the correct filter may not be installed.

I have saved a log for each conversion which I will happily post/send if this would be helpful.

I would be grateful for any help in getting this set up right. I don't want to convert my main audio files from apple lossless, because I am running MC in bootcamp just for the conversion to iPod and will be playing my music on the Mac side mostly.

thanks

nick

nickharambee · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2009, 06:51:20 am »

as an addendum, i searched the log files for the word error and the following lines came up for both attempted conversions:

0083844: 3928: Handheld: CHHManager::UpdateDeviceMemoryInfo: PDMemCheck: nTotalSize=159839977472, nAvailableSize=159386140672, nError=0

0083891: 3928: CD: CCDInfo::MMCDriveReady: dwError=0x15, nRetries=3
0083891: 3928: CD: CCDInfo::MMCDriveReady: dwError=0x15, nRetries=2
0083891: 3928: CD: CCDInfo::MMCDriveReady: DeviceIoControl returns err=0x15

presumably it is the lower lines that are the issue, because nError=0 suggests no errors

JimH · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2009, 07:26:07 am »

You need to be able to play the Apple Lossless files natively in MC using DirectShow before conversion will work. The wiki may have information on playback.

nickharambee · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2009, 09:03:21 am »

i can play the files using the quicktime engine, so should i not be able to convert using this?

when i try to playback using direct show/dc-bass source (latest version) i get the following error message:

can't find any info in the wiki to help

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2009, 09:14:45 am »

Quote from: nick_harambee on September 07, 2009, 09:03:21 am

i can play the files using the quicktime engine, so should i not be able to convert using this?

No. MC loads the QT engine, but doesn't have direct access to the file.

I can't help with DirectShow for Apple formats, but try the DirectShow guide here:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/DirectShow_Playback_Guide

Someone else may be able to help soon.

Yaobing · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2009, 09:20:33 am »

The wiki page linked by Jim gives you general discussion on DirectShow. There is a link on that page to more specific info on mp4 and m4a, and in particular, ALAC.

nickharambee · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:02:06 pm »

thanks jim and yaobing.

so, what i have worked out from the wikis is that it is only the directshow filter that will allow me to do the conversion, so i am focusing on getting this working.

there isn't a lot of other helpful information for my issue in the wikis. in the m4a wiki it states that "DSP-Worx ALAC DirectShow filter (DC-BASS Source) can be installed to play ALAC m4a files. Currently it does not support UNICODE characters in file paths." But in the directshow wiki it states "You should register the Unicode version as Media Center supports Unicode." so i am not sure if this is an issue.

I installed the latest version of DC-Bass Source using the standard installer. MC has DC-Bass Source as an option in the File Types settings, and I'm not sure if this would show up if it wasn't installed correctly. If it would show up anyway, I am wondering if the filter is installed in the correct location (at the moment it is in under Program Files/DSP-Worx/DC-Bass Source).

Finally, in the File Types settings there is a drop-down for 'other filters' after the 'source filter', and I am not sure what to select here. At the moment 'J River Bitrate Monitor' is selected.

Yaobing · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:15:51 pm »

Quote from: nick_harambee on September 07, 2009, 01:02:06 pm

so, what i have worked out from the wikis is that it is only the directshow filter that will allow me to do the conversion, so i am focusing on getting this working.

That is right.

Quote

there isn't a lot of other helpful information for my issue in the wikis. in the m4a wiki it states that "DSP-Worx ALAC DirectShow filter (DC-BASS Source) can be installed to play ALAC m4a files. Currently it does not support UNICODE characters in file paths." But in the directshow wiki it states "You should register the Unicode version as Media Center supports Unicode." so i am not sure if this is an issue.

No problem here. You should register the unicode version if an unicode version is available. DC-BASS Source does not have a separate unicode version.

Quote

I installed the latest version of DC-Bass Source using the standard installer. MC has DC-Bass Source as an option in the File Types settings, and I'm not sure if this would show up if it wasn't installed correctly. If it would show up anyway, I am wondering if the filter is installed in the correct location (at the moment it is in under Program Files/DSP-Worx/DC-Bass Source).

Usually if you see it in the list, it has been installed correctly. The location does not matter (as long as you let the installer run its course).

Quote

Finally, in the File Types settings there is a drop-down for 'other filters' after the 'source filter', and I am not sure what to select here. At the moment 'J River Bitrate Monitor' is selected.

You can leave both as they are. Usually correct filters will be loaded by DirectShow automatically. There are situations in which you may need to select a specific filter because there maybe too many filters that could be loaded and DirectShow may load one that is not the best. In your case select "DC-Bass Source" from the "Source Filters" list is a good idea (especially if you have trouble playing when it is not selected). The "Other filters" list is also called "transform filters". There is discussion of this in some detail in the DirectShow wiki.

nickharambee · « **Reply #8 on:** September 11, 2009, 06:42:02 am »

thanks yaobing

so it seems i have done everything right, and don't need to enter an 'other filter' as well as a 'source filter', and yet, no playback.

any other ideas, or should i move over to, dare i say, WINAMP??

i would rather use MC if possible, but support of .m4a is better integrated in WINAMP

nick

Alex B · « **Reply #9 on:** September 11, 2009, 08:34:25 am »

The following was already mostly included in the previous replies, but I hope it can help you and others who might still be unsure of the correct settings:

Here is the only filter that needs to be configured for ALAC / DC-Bass Source playback:

You can add the bitrate monitor or other filters as "Other Filters", but they are not necessary and when troubleshooting the problem it is better to configure only the DC-Bass Source filter.

The above is correct only for DC-Bass Source. Most other decoding filters do not contain the splitter part in the same filter and a separate splitter (source filter) may be needed when the filters are configured manually instead of using the automatic DirectShow filter selection system (e.g. Source Filter: Haali media Splitter, Other Filters: FFDShow Audio Decoder).

After you have configured the filter it would be good to first check if MC can play ALAC files correctly by using DC-Bass Source instead of the QuickTime engine. You can confirm that by several ways, for instance: right-click the display during playback and check if the DirectShow graph is available _or_ check if the Internal Volume option works _or_ check if "Show spectrum analyzer" works in the top player display panel _or_ check if the Replay Gain Analyzer works (Library Tools > Analyze Audio).

Some ALAC files may have a tag compatibility issue with DC-Bass Source. Though if the files were encoded by iTunes they should be fine. AFAIK, the issue exists only with files that were created using the old version of dbPoweramp ALAC encoder. That issue can be cured by running Mp3tag's "m4a optimizer" (it's a quick process). Mp3tag is a free tagging program that can handle various file formats. More info: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=47737.msg327262;topicseen#msg327262

The lack of the Unicode support can be problem only if the filenames or paths really contain non-latin, Unicode characters. The usual "European" accented characters are included in the Latin character set.

After you have confirmed that playback works correctly through DS we can try to resolve the Handheld conversion problem if it still exists.

Dirhael · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2009, 11:28:32 am »

There is a unicode version of DC-Bass Source available, I've been using it since it was posted on the devs forum over a year ago without issues. I've tested it with Japanese/Korean/Chinese characters in path/filenames and it works as expected

Grab the unicode version here: http://forum.dsp-worx.de/viewtopic.php?p=2085#2085
(to install, just unzip the file and place it somewhere convenient. The run the register.bat file and you should be fine)

Yaobing · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2009, 04:07:08 pm »

Quote from: Dirhael on September 11, 2009, 11:28:32 am

There is a unicode version of DC-Bass Source available, I've been using it since it was posted on the devs forum over a year ago without issues. I've tested it with Japanese/Korean/Chinese characters in path/filenames and it works as expected

Grab the unicode version here: http://forum.dsp-worx.de/viewtopic.php?p=2085#2085
(to install, just unzip the file and place it somewhere convenient. The run the register.bat file and you should be fine)

Thanks for the info.

I downloaded (version pre_1.2.0) and registered it. It still does not work for me.

Of the following three (differing only in folder and filename, and otherwise identical) files, only the last one will play.

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\My Music\iTunes\iTunes Music\Compilations\寶麗金首還紀念大集 - 2\1-01 講不出再見.m4a

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\My Music\iTunes\iTunes Music\Compilations\寶麗金首還紀念大集 - 2\1-01 Jiang Bu Chu Zaijian.m4a

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\My Music\iTunes\iTunes Music\Compilations\PolyGram 2\1-01 Jiang Bu Chu Zaijian.m4a

Dirhael · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2009, 04:45:06 pm »

Hmm, strange as I'm having no problems with such filenames. Be sure to uninstall/un-register the old version first (may want to reboot as well, in case anything is locking the old .ax file). If you didn't then it's possible that the new one isn't being used.

Here's a few examples of unicode ALAC files I just tested that are working just fine here:

Code: [Select]

E:\Downloads\Musikk\A\Anri Kumaki\無から出た錆 [2005]\05. 熊木杏里 - おうちを忘れたカナリア.m4a
E:\Downloads\Musikk\L\Loveholic\Nice Dream [2006]\02. Loveholic - 차라의 숲.m4a
E:\Downloads\Musikk\A\Asian Kung-Fu Generation\ワールド ワールド ワールド [2008]\01. ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION - ワールド ワールド ワールド.m4a

Yaobing · « **Reply #13 on:** September 11, 2009, 05:49:41 pm »

Quote from: Dirhael on September 11, 2009, 04:45:06 pm

(may want to reboot as well, in case anything is locking the old .ax file).

That was it. After rebooting it works.

Dirhael · « **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2009, 06:00:34 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on September 11, 2009, 05:49:41 pm

That was it. After rebooting it works.

Glad to hear it's working for you

nickharambee · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:28:21 am »

OK, so I have worked out that I can playback ALAC files (using DC-Bass Source) if they were originally encoded in iTunes. The problem with playback is for ALAC files that were encoded using Max, a conversion program on the Mac. When I switched to using Macs all of my files were encoded to FLAC using MC, but FLAC wasn't supported on Macs so I decided to convert all my music to ALAC.

I have tried running the m4a optimizer in both dBpoweramp and MP3tag and still MC cannot playback. Playback works fine in other media players in Windows, i.e. Winamp/iTunes/MediaMonkey.

Does anyone have any ideas what might be going on?

I will try to contact the developer of Max to see if he has any ideas.

Thanks

Nick

Alex B · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:49:26 am »

Please provide a sample.

I attached a small clip that you can use (a flac file in a zip package).
Convert it to ALAC with Max and apply your usual tags.

(You must be logged in to the forum to access the attachment.)

nickharambee · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2009, 01:12:19 pm »

thanks. the conversion of the file you attached from FLAC to ALAC using the latest version of Max (0.9.1) worked fine, i.e. I could play it in MC. I can't get hold of the version of Max that I used for the original conversions (0.7.1) and anyway, I don't think it would run in my current OS.

So, I have uploaded the smallest ALAC file from my music collection, converted using Max 0.7.1, which won't play in MC, a 4 second captain beefheart track in which not a lot happens (entitled 'untitled 28'). I wasn't sure how to attach it to this post, so have uploaded it to my Public iDisk Folder: http://public.me.com/nick_harambee. If you need other longer tracks let me know and I will upload.

Nick

nickharambee · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2009, 02:10:26 pm »

so, been doin' a bit more research and came across this thread on the Max forum:

http://forums.sbooth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2184

the crucial post from Sbooth who developed Max states:

"MP4 files use boxes (atoms) to store information. Sometimes for applications which handle them, the order of the atoms are extremely important. It's possible that Squeezecenter doesn't like the way Max lays out the atoms in the generated MP4 files. One experiment that would be worth trying is running one of the files in question through AtomicParsley and see if it is recognized after that."

i think this may well be the issue. i tried re-encoding a few Max encoded ALAC files in iTunes as iTunes ALAC files, and then they played fine in MC. I would rather not have to re-encode half of my music collection, so will have a look at Atomic Parsley and see how I get on.

Any other suggestions welcome...

Alex B · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:00:12 pm »

I tried your file. Unfortunately I can only confirm your findings. The file does not work with DC-Bass Source.

I tried removing and re-adding the tags and also fixing them with Mp3tag, but as you said, that didn't help.

I downloaded the AtomicParser tool (Windows version), but couldn't find any way to fix the file with it. Only transcoding to AIFF and back to ALAC with iTunes helped.

nickharambee · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:08:32 pm »

Looks like re-encoding with iTunes is the way forward, for 15,000 files!

I didn't have to convert to AIFF, just from ALAC (Max) to ALAC (iTunes), and all worked well

I think I have found a good way of automating things (on a Mac):

1. run a search for 'Max 0.7.1' in Music Folder (searches in Tags for 'encoded by') - result over 15,000 files.
2. drag these from finder into a playlist in iTunes (files are already in iTunes library, so just references these).
3. run a script called 'quick convert' in iTunes which converts the ALAC to ALAC, placing the new version in the same folder as the original and then deleting the old version.
4. Run Consolidate in iTunes to make sure all files have the correct name.

And that's it. I am sure there is a similar way of doing this on the Windows side of things.

Once I have converted 15,000 tracks I will then be able to import all to MC and then get on with syncing/converting to iPod!

thanks for looking into this

Nick

MichaelVBrooks · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2009, 01:42:36 pm »

I have a similar issue I was quite happy using FLAC with no problems in MC, except they get converted to lossy mp3's when downloading to my iPod. So, using "Easy CD-DA Extractor" (hate iTunes), I converted 20,000 plus FLAC files to M4a lossless so that MC would download them to my IPod intact - and that works just fine. The m4a lossless files playback fine in MC using the Quicktime engine.

My problem is that if I use MC to change any tag information for those m4a lossless files, and right-click "Update Tags from Library," MC goes through motions, it says it is saving the information to the tags, but the tagging information does not actually change in the tags - only in the library. The only way I have found to do this is (external to MC) to use Easy CD-DA Extractor to edit the metadata in the tags and then MC sees the changes and updates the library. But, this is a pretty manual clunky time-consuming way to do this. Any ideas why MC does not update the m4a audio tags?

nickharambee · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2009, 01:50:32 pm »

MC can't write tags to m4a files. here's a link to a thread where this was confirmed by one of MC's forum administrators:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=53966.msg368403#msg368403

nick

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Author Topic: need help playing/converting ALAC (Apple Lossless) Files in MC14 (Read 5614 times)