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[GreggP]

It's great to see the latest announcements about new "audiophile" features.

There are a few improvements that I've noticed that I specifically wanted to thank you for. In the past, analysis (calculations for replay-gain, bpm, intensity) of 24-bit audio didn't work. It would return errors. Then it worked for stereo, but not surround sound. Now it works for 5.1 surround, but not 4 channel or 5 channel.

Can you fix the analysis feature so it will also work with 4 channel and 5 channel audio?

There are quite a few classical recordings with multichannel mixes that don't include the '.1' LFE (or subwoofer) channel. You can find these in several DVD-A and SACD discs. For example: Daniel Barenboim's Beethoven Symponies, Dmitry Yablonsky's Tchaikovsky Piano Concertos and many others are available on DVD-A and are 5 channel (not 5.1). There are also quite a few rock recordings that were originally mixed in quad that are coming back as quad recordings on DVD-A or SACD. I wouldn't be surprised to see online stores like HDTracks, iTraxs, or 2L start offering these for download. Remastered quad recordings might be pretty popular. Anyhow, I have a few (Herbie Mann - Push Push; Jethro Tull - Aqualung).

Many people are ripping their DVD-As and SACDs and playing back from their media libraries and PCs. Yes, there are people digitally ripping SACDs. There are also people playing DSD (the format SACD uses to store audio data) audio with their PCs using foobar2000.

For those of you that might be interested, I wrote a couple articles on how to play and rip audio from a DVD-Audio disc here: http://amplioaudio.blogspot.com/2010/01/playing-and-ripping-dvd-audio-with-your.html. You can purchase DVD-As from online stores like Amazon and the prices are pretty close to CD prices. In fact at Naxosdirect.com (http://www.naxosdirect.com/category/368/A/), I purchased a handful of classical DVD-As for just $2.99 each.

You can also rip audio from a DVD-V and convert the multichannel DTS to multichannel FLAC:
http://amplioaudio.blogspot.com/2010/02/extracting-audio-from-dvd-video.html.

There are a few good sources for high res audio that you can purchase and download, like
HDTracks - https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php
iTrax.com - http://itrax.com/
Linn Records - http://www.linnrecords.com/index.aspx
HDTT- http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/storefront.php
2L - http://www.2l.no/

In fact 2L has a handful of high resolution samples here:
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

HDTracks has even put together a sample for MC users:
https://www.hdtracks.com/jriver/

HDTT has 24-bit/192kHz samples here:
http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/storefront.php

or, you can download this free DVD-A album here:
http://www.diatonis.com/dark_edges.html

and... Nine Inch Nails is offering their latest album in a high res format for free here:
http://dl.nin.com/theslip/signup

AND... the rock band Wheatus is offering their latest EP in a variety of formats, including DSD here:
http://www.wheatus.com/main_index.html

I've been able to play the DSD format using a plug-in for foobar2000. It sure would be great if it worked some day with MC.

So, thanks again for recognizing and supporting features that appeal to music lovers. I think there are a lot of cool things you can exploit with MC beyond the basic room correction and output format DSP features you now offer. Support for true DRC (digital room correction) and bass management would also be welcome (digital crossover support would be cool too, but dependency on specific hardware would make it impractical for a player app).

[Pjotr]

...............but dependency on specific hardware would make it impractical for a player app.

I do not fully agree with that. I would be happy if MC can simply mix 2 stereo channels into a LF channel for my sub and do the X-over for that. And of course full DRC-Bass management would be great too

[GreggP]

I was referring to digital crossovers for speakers, which could have different types of filtering based on the type of drivers used in a 2-way or 3-way speaker system. So they would have to support low-pass, high-pass and band-pass filters. To do this well, you'd probably want a measured impulse response from your drivers.

However, if they included a plug-in that had a matrix mixer and let you to assign filters using a variety of topologies, that would be great.

I wasn't necessarily thinking of channel mixing, like you'd have for bass management. I usually think of digital crossovers and bass management as 2 different applications, but I suppose it could be integrated.

[Matt]

I do not fully agree with that. I would be happy if MC can simply mix 2 stereo channels into a LF channel for my sub and do the X-over for that. And of course full DRC-Bass management would be great too

Media Center does do subwoofer mixing if you select DSP Studio > Output Format > Channels: 5.1 or 7.1 with JRSS as the surround mixing.

It has a configurable cross-over and provides Subclarity, a filter to allow hits and impacts to go to the subwoofer, but removes drones and rumbles (like low bass guitars, etc.)

[GreggP]

Media Center does do subwoofer mixing if you select DSP Studio > Output Format > Channels: 5.1 or 7.1 with JRSS as the surround mixing.

It has a configurable cross-over and provides Subclarity, a filter to allow hits and impacts to go to the subwoofer, but removes drones and rumbles (like low bass guitars, etc.)

That's great. I'll give it a try.

What if you have a 5.1 (or 7.1) system and you play a 5.1 mix. Will the JRSS surround alter the mix? I usually leave it as 'Source number of channels' because I don't want any more processing and it will play the 5.1 mix as it was originally. I assumed that if you enable this setting, MC will do some sort of additional surround mixing, which I may not want.

What happens if you are playing stereo recordings? If I play a stereo recording, I want it to output stereo. However, I would like the ability to have the sub active and work like a 2.1 system.

[Matt]

That's great. I'll give it a try.

There's quite a lot of engineering behind JRSS.

What if you have a 5.1 (or 7.1) system and you play a 5.1 mix. Will the JRSS surround alter the mix?

No, it will not alter it.  For all the settings in Output Format, selecting a value that's the same as the input will result in no changes.

As an example, selecting "Same as source" and "2 channels (stereo)" will run identical code if you play a stereo file -- making no changes and delivering a bit-perfect stream.

Also, processing tries to be as light-handed as possible.  For example, when mixing 5.1 up to 7.1 no changes are made to the first six channels.  When mixing from 2.0 to 7.1, no changes are made to the first two channels.

What happens if you are playing stereo recordings? If I play a stereo recording, I want it to output stereo. However, I would like the ability to have the sub active and work like a 2.1 system.

There is no option for this.  It will mix stereo to 5.1 or 7.1.  With a good system, this provides amazing sound.

[Pjotr]

Media Center does do subwoofer mixing if you select DSP Studio > Output Format > Channels: 5.1 or 7.1 with JRSS as the surround mixing.

Oops, I overlooked the JRSS setting, thanks Matt

[GreggP]

There's quite a lot of engineering behind JRSS.


No, it will not alter it.  For all the settings in Output Format, selecting a value that's the same as the input will result in no changes.

As an example, selecting "Same as source" and "2 channels (stereo)" will run identical code if you play a stereo file -- making no changes and delivering a bit-perfect stream.

Also, processing tries to be as light-handed as possible.  For example, when mixing 5.1 up to 7.1 no changes are made to the first six channels.  When mixing from 2.0 to 7.1, no changes are made to the first two channels.


There is no option for this.  It will mix stereo to 5.1 or 7.1.  With a good system, this provides amazing sound.

What may be amazing sound to you is based on your personal preference. There are some stereo mixes that I don't necessarily want to be played out of my surround speakers. Besides, I've experimented with a lot of different surround processing methods, both hardware and software. I've even played around with Dolby processors and was part of the team that developed Sonic Foundry's Soft Encode. I know that there is no one-size-fits-all method for surround. So I purchase surround recordings and listen to them in surround. Like I said, I prefer listening to the stereo mixes in stereo, but would like a 2.1 option. P.S., I can do this easily with foobar2000.

[GreggP]

No, it will not alter it.  For all the settings in Output Format, selecting a value that's the same as the input will result in no changes. As an example, selecting "Same as source" and "2 channels (stereo)" will run identical code if you play a stereo file -- making no changes and delivering a bit-perfect stream. Also, processing tries to be as light-handed as possible.  For example, when mixing 5.1 up to 7.1 no changes are made to the first six channels.  When mixing from 2.0 to 7.1, no changes are made to the first two channels.

Just wanted to get this right. If I enable 5.1 and set surround mixing to JRSS v2.0, and I play a 5.1 mix, it will not alter the original mix? And, if I play a stereo mix, it will play the stereo channels without changes, but will matrix mix the center and surround channels and depending on a single subwoofer cross-over setting, send all audio to the sub under that frequency.

I'm confused...

The way I would prefer, is I'd like the option to enable the subwoofer at all times. Then, I'd like to choose what speakers are large or small and what their cross-over frequencies should be. And when redirecting the bass, I'd like the option to redirect from all speakers, but leave the original signal intact or do complete redirection of the signal.

If I'm going to apply upmixing, I'd like more control. It would be nice to select what percentage of the signal gets passed to the center and surrounds.

[mojave]

Gregg, I agree with you completely on 2.1. It is funny because I really wanted to like matrixed audio because I had a 7.1 system. However, I have found that for music the front soundstage never sounds as good with any of the matrixing methods that use a center channel. I have found that matrixing just the rear surrounds (4.1) does sound fairly good.

Matt, does JRSS provide discreet rear channels and mix from 5.1 to 7.1 when watching movies or does it still only work for music?

[mojave]

The way I would prefer, is I'd like the option to enable the subwoofer at all times. Then, I'd like to choose what speakers are large or small and what their cross-over frequencies should be. And when redirecting the bass, I'd like the option to redirect from all speakers, but leave the original signal intact or do complete redirection of the signal.

You might want to read this thread called New speaker DSP in Media Center. We have a good discussion going on bass management.

[Matt]

Gregg, I agree with you completely on 2.1. It is funny because I really wanted to like matrixed audio because I had a 7.1 system. However, I have found that for music the front soundstage never sounds as good with any of the matrixing methods that use a center channel. I have found that matrixing just the rear surrounds (4.1) does sound fairly good.

Matt, does JRSS provide discreet rear channels and mix from 5.1 to 7.1 when watching movies or does it still only work for music?

Audio DSP is now available during video, HDTV, and DVD playback.  It must be turned on in Options > General > Advanced > Features.  We're still working on it, but it provides all the same audio capabilities during video playback.  ASIO, WASAPI, etc. output is coming next.


As for mixing, it sounds like what people want is an additional "Surround mixing" mode in DSP Studio > Output Format.  It would be called "Subwoofer mixing only (other unused channels silent)".

With a 7.1 system, you could select "7.1 channels", "Subwoofer mixing only (other unused channels silent)", dial in the subwoofer settings, and it would be 2.1 for stereo, 5.1 for 5.1 and 7.1 for 7.1.

[GreggP]

As for getting the analysis routines to work with  4 or 5 channel surround mixes...

this suggestion has tracks that are  5 channel, 24-bit 96kHz and are in FLAC format:

http://www.diatonis.com/dark_edges.html