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[jmone]

Some nice TV changes -  so since you are looking at TV stuff how about....

15. NEW: JTV based Digital Television Recordings can now be saved as MPG

[Matt]

Some nice TV changes -  so since you are looking at TV stuff how about....

We're going to do MKV instead.

[jmone]

We're going to do MKV instead.

Works for ME!

[Matt]

Works for ME!

If it works out, it will be a manual operation to create an MKV from a JTV.  No encoding happens, just packaging / muxing.

We get beat up when we try to explain, but JTV is used by the television engine for all sorts of good technical reasons.  To be able to mix-and-match watching, time-shifting, and recording, we need a file structure with chunks, reference counting, and other mechanisms you can't get from a contiguous file.

[jmone]

If it works out, it will be a manual operation to create an MKV from a JTV.  No encoding happens, just packaging / muxing.

We get beat up when we try to explain, but JTV is used by the television engine for all sorts of good technical reasons.  To be able to mix-and-match watching, time-shifting, and recording, we need a file structure with chunks, reference counting, and other mechanisms you can't get from a contiguous file.

I'm happy with all that good stuff and don't have an argument.  In fact I'm delighted at how well this part works!

It's the next step of needing to do any of the following simple things we all take for granted where we become stuck with the JTV format.  I don't need to convert all files (as many are watch once and delete), but for selected ones I may like to:
1) Trim the recording (start and end) / edit out the ads
2) Manage in my library as any other video file (eg as a TV Episode, Movie, break up a Music Video show into individual Music Video Tracks etc)
3) Stream to other devices
4) Give a copy to my Mum of when I was on TV by Burning to DVD or copying to a USB as MPEG

Thanks
Nathan

[glynor]

If it works out, it will be a manual operation to create an MKV from a JTV.  No encoding happens, just packaging / muxing.

This sounds pretty nice.

We get beat up when we try to explain, but JTV is used by the television engine for all sorts of good technical reasons.  To be able to mix-and-match watching, time-shifting, and recording, we need a file structure with chunks, reference counting, and other mechanisms you can't get from a contiguous file.

That's silly.  It makes perfect sense.  That's why broadcasters use transport streams and not program files.  Who cares what format it records in if you can get it into an open format after the fact?  Now, at some point it might be nice to have it auto-convert recorded files on a schedule.  If you get there, maybe you could just define an option as part of the "recording settings" for a particular scheduled recording (auto-mux to MKV when done, or something similar).  But this is a good first step.

[Yaobing]

This experimental feature will appear in the next build.

It uses Haali Matroska Muxer (which is a part of Haali Media Splitter installation).  You therefore must make sure you have installed the latest Haali Media Splitter.

[jmone]

I'm seeing the same symptoms as when I ran Haali DS Mux manually on the JTV file, in that the resultant MKV file plays fine but if you do any seek you lose Video otput (audio keeps playing).  I've not looked inside the MKV yet, but from last time it appeared that all the individual JTV segments were stored in the MKV instead on one big stream and I'm "guessing" this was an issue to seeking.

Thanks
Nathan

3) Finding a remuxer that will convert JTV to anything standard.   (Note: latest testing with the Haali DS Mux shows it will mux of the ALL the JTV files as individual segments in the single MKV container.  The resultant MKV file will play but you can not seek or you lose Video output though sound is fine.  Then tried demuxing this files to the MPEG and AC3 streams but the video is garbage, wrong dimensions, framerates and is scrambled.  Then tried many of the transcoding progs on this MKV file to another format but either they fail or produce garbage at the other end)

[Yaobing]

I'm seeing the same symptoms as when I ran Haali DS Mux manually on the JTV file, in that the resultant MKV file plays fine but if you do any seek you lose Video otput (audio keeps playing).  I've not looked inside the MKV yet, but from last time it appeared that all the individual JTV segments were stored in the MKV instead on one big stream and I'm "guessing" this was an issue to seeking.

Thanks
Nathan

This is strange.  I am not seeing this problem.  Here most resultant files play fine, including seeking.
Are you using version 1.10.120.15 of Haali?

[jmone]

Yup same version - could it be anything to do with DVB-T?

[jmone]

If it helps - here is the filter info from both:
1) Original recording: You can FFW, FWD, Resume in the Middle, Seek to any place...

Code: [Select]

Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
        CLSID: {79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\reclock\reclockds.dll
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Haali Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {760A8F35-97E7-479D-AAF5-DA9EFF95D751}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\haali\matroskasplitter\dxr.dll
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'Subtitle'

    Filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
        CLSID: {0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'Haali Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'

    Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Audio Output' of filter 'JRiver TS Reader Filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Video Output' of filter 'JRiver TS Reader Filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'JRiver TS Reader Filter'
        CLSID: {8303B00A-D9E3-4BD7-A79A-AD7077F54123}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\j river\media center 15\tv\mjtsfilereader.ax
        Output Pin 'Audio Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Video Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

[jmone]

2. Remuxed Version - Can only play from the start - no seeking.  Muxed out Videos steam will play but it is corrupt.

Code: [Select]

Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
        CLSID: {79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\reclock\reclockds.dll
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Haali Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {760A8F35-97E7-479D-AAF5-DA9EFF95D751}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\haali\matroskasplitter\dxr.dll
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow subtitles filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'Subtitle'

    Filter 'ffdshow subtitles filter'
        CLSID: {DBF9000E-F08C-4858-B769-C914A0FBB1D7}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'Haali Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'

    Filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
        CLSID: {0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'E:\Media\Video\TV Recordings\Doctor Who 2010-04-18\Doctor Who 2010-04-18.mkv'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'E:\Media\Video\TV Recordings\Doctor Who 2010-04-18\Doctor Who 2010-04-18.mkv'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow subtitles filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'

    Filter 'E:\Media\Video\TV Recordings\Doctor Who 2010-04-18\Doctor Who 2010-04-18.mkv'
        CLSID: {55DA30FC-F16B-49FC-BAA5-AE59FC65F82D}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\haali\matroskasplitter\splitter.ax
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Audio'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

[jmone]

3. MPEG only stream - defmuxed from the MKV container.

Code: [Select]

Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}
        Host: c:\windows\syswow64\evr.dll
        Input Pin 'EVR Input0'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'EVR Input1'

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: c:\program files (x86)\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'Nero Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'EVR Input0' of filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'

    Filter 'Nero Splitter'
        CLSID: {1B079345-4571-495B-9208-EE14570E1A2E}
        Host: c:\nerodsfilter\nesplitter.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'E:\Media\Video\TV Recordings\Doctor Who 2010-04-18\Doctor Who 2010-04-18_Track2.mpg'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG1Video, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'E:\Media\Video\TV Recordings\Doctor Who 2010-04-18\Doctor Who 2010-04-18_Track2.mpg'
        CLSID: {E436EBB5-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}
        Host: c:\windows\syswow64\quartz.dll
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'Nero Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG1Video, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE

[jmone]

Is there anything you want me to try - different splitters, filders, media info, SD Records - do you want a short TV recording packaged and uploaded somwhere?
Thanks
Nathan

[Yaobing]

Is there anything you want me to try - different splitters, filders, media info, SD Records -

The only thing I can think of is to get rid of the FFDShow subtitles filter in the mkv graph and see if that makes any difference.

do you want a short TV recording packaged and uploaded somwhere?

Yes, that may help.

[jmone]

Here is the link to a JTV with a muxed MKV in the same folder - http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/224477/TestJTV-zip.html

This 48sec MKV "plays" a bit different.  If I seek I lose Audio and the Video is just a snapshot but at the 38sec mark it starts playing properly (or if I seek past the 38sec mark it plays fine).

Hope it helps!
Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

FYI at present I can not use the Tools --> Advance Tools --> Convert Format option when highlighting the file under Drives and Devices --> Television --> Recordings.  I had to import the JTV file into MC, select that file then it would Convert.

Thanks
Nathan

[rpalmer68]

I've just tried to MUX a TV recording to MKV and play it back.  It was a DVB-T SD recording.

File plays with MS DTV decoder and EVR, but video is very juddery, like it's only playing every 10th frame or something, BUT I can seek forward/back.

With FFDSHow I'm getting a black screen but can hear the audio, I'll have to check if I ned to enable something in FFDSHow.

Tried playing MKV file back in TMT3, it was juddery in that too so it seems the mkv file isn't quite right to me.

Double checked original recordings, it plays back correctly.


Richard

[jmone]

Thanks Richard, I also did more testing with various combos and saw similar results:

* Plays & Seeks but only see 1:10 frames, audio not in sync.  WMP, TMT, & MC with MS, MPC or Mainconcept Decoders
* Plays find but can not seek: FFDSHOW

You get some other odd behavior with various combos like the post a seek the Video will play supper quick (like FFD) till it catches up with the Audio then back to 1:10 frames.  Tried changing Renderers and nothing really of interest.

Thanks
Nathan

[Yaobing]

Thanks guys.

Too bad this does not work out.  I am really stumped. Something different in DVB-T video that the muxer can not handle, maybe.  ATSC audio is AC3.  Do you get the same results with AC3 and MPEG-2 Audio?

I tried Nathan's sample recording.  It indeed has problem seeking.  It's like audio seeking granularity is too large.

[jmone]

The audio does not make any difference (see the filter info I posted above, my first attempt had a 2ch AC3 stream).  It also seems to be a problem with SD and HD so the Video format is not the issue.  I tried a very short recording with only one cnk but it still has the same issues ( http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/225649/Today-Tonight-2010-05-04-zip.html ).  The intersting thing about this one is the MKV is 9MB, yet the Audio and Video cnks are over 20mb....

It's like the days of getting DVB-T working - I'm Happy to test / try any combo!
Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

Hi Yaobing, I've been playing with Graph Studio and JTV files with various combos to see if I can MUX it out to something else.  The most promising was to push the Video and Audio out using the Dump filter to a separate MPG and AC3 file then manually mux to MKV.  Interestingly I got a couple of these errors from MKBMerge GUI "Warning: This AC3 track contains 1296 bytes of non-AC3 data which were skipped. The audio/video synchronization may have been lost."

The resultant file plays and seeks perfectly but the Audio Sync is out.  I'm wondering if there is something odd about how JTV stores the DVB-T audio that is causing the issue with the timecodes when muxed directly to MKV.

Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

Mmmm I think there is something more fundamentally wrong with the streams.  The Video/Audio streams created from the above Dump don't play all that nice:
1) Video - Plays in MC (FFDSHOW) but reports the 50min show as 7:03 min:sec long (but it keeps playing when it reaches that point).  I can also seek in this stream and if you select half way through, you get MC saying 3:30 but it is actually half way through he show (eg 25min).  If I open this stream in an edit program (eg VideoStudio) it reports that it is a bit over 23sec long but also keep playing past this point. 
2) Audio - I can not get this stream to load or play in either VideoStudio or MC.

[jmone]

Hi Yaobing,
Now the dust has settled on the DVB-T issues, any progress on the MKV muxing.  I just did a test and the MPEG Video Stream is still corrupted (eg JTV --> MKV --> Demux Video / Audio)

Thanks
Nathan