Topic: Using a Pioneer AV Receiver as UPnP Renderer for MC (Read 13750 times)

HiBitFan · « **on:** April 14, 2010, 03:11:32 pm »

Hello,

I just upgraded from MC13 to MC15 because I want to use the following installation scenario:

Netbook as the UPnP ControlPoint (Asus EeePC, WinXP)
Pioneer SC-LX81 as the UPnP Renderer (it's called Elite SC-07 in the US as far as I know)
Pioneer support confirmed that the device is DLNA 1.0 compliant
Same netbook as UPnP Server

My experiences so far:

I installed MC 15.0.23 and configured the DLNA section accordingly.
'Pioneer Digital Media Client' is detected by MC => a good start
Selected an album from the local library and pressed 'Play' => works
Want to skip to the next song => receiver skips to the next song but error msg 'There was a problem controlling the selected DLNA device' pops up. When the message is confirmed the player skips to another song.

Ok, perhaps this is too difficult for the beginning. Let's skip while in paused mode.
Now no error message popped up but receiver and MC went out of sync. The receiver is still playing the same song but MC assumes that the next song is already processed.

That's it for the ControlPoint. Let's come to the Server .....
Unfortunately the rendering capabilities of the Pioneer receiver are limited to a bit depth of 24bit, sample rate of 48kHz and 2 channels. I have a lot of HiRes and MultiChannel FLACs however.
Therefore I configured the DSP Plugin for the channel limitation and the downsampling to 48kHz.
But this didn't change anything. Obviously is the DSP Plugin not applied to remote UPnP renderers at all.

I know however that the server 'Asset UPnP' (of the dbpoweramp company) is doing this conditional downsampling task very well. So I installed it on another PC and checked that it's providing all my albums.

In MC I searched for other libraries and the Asset UPnP was detected => a good start again
The albums where imported incl. cover art. But strangely some albums were missing. It took some time then I realized that I got all my MP3 albums and none of the FLAC coded ones.
I rechecked with another ControlPoint software and the FLACs were really published by the Asset. So obviously this is another MC issue.
Ok, let's try to play what is there. But only the error msg 'There is a problem controlling the selected DLNA device' was raised. No sound at all.

I give up for now. Obviously there is still a long way to go with the DLNA support for the MC.

So long ....

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2010, 03:45:23 pm »

Thanks for the report.

We're investigating enabling DSP Studio during conversion for DLNA, which would solve your format issue.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2010, 01:24:37 pm »

Hi Matt,

Thanks, this sounds promising.

However the most annoying issue for me currently is the fact that navigation within playlists does not work with the Pioneer receiver.
Can I help with some logs here for investigating this issue?

H.

Matt · « **Reply #3 on:** April 19, 2010, 01:41:51 pm »

Quote from: HiBitFan on April 19, 2010, 01:24:37 pm

Hi Matt,

Thanks, this sounds promising.

However the most annoying issue for me currently is the fact that navigation within playlists does not work with the Pioneer receiver.
Can I help with some logs here for investigating this issue?

H.

There are a lot of possible permutations, so I need a little help making sure I'm understanding what you're doing.

It sounds like you're picking content inside Media Center, and playing it on the attached Pioneer. Then you mentioned picking next / previous. Are you doing this with Media Center, or with the Pioneer remote? You probably have to use only Media Center when it's controlling.

If this is problematic, what happens if you use the user interface on the Pioneer so Media Center is only the server and not the controller?

Thanks for any further clarification.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2010, 02:39:24 pm »

Ok, I will try to be more precise.
MC is installed on my Netbook and started. MC is configured for DNLA server and control point.
When I control my receiver with it's own remote the MC DNLA server is detected and I can start playing a complete album. The songs of this album are filling the local playlist and I can skip forward without any problems. Skipping backwards always restarts the current song, but that's ok I think.
When I do the same think on the MC screen (netbook keyboard, no remote) in fact playing advances to the next song but the mentioned error message is displayed. Looks like the skipping command was send correctly to the receiver but MC is confused by the confirmation which was send back by the receiver.
Playing (of the correct song) continues then until I confirm the error message. Only then the rendering is terminated.

Hope this helps.

H.

Matt · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2010, 02:46:59 pm »

If you're up to it, you could install Fiddler (www.fiddler2.com) and sniff the play command.

Here's an example request and response to a WDTVLive device which is working well:

URL:
POST /MediaRenderer_AVTransport/control HTTP/1.1

Request:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?><s:Envelope xmlns:s="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
<s:Body>
<u:Play xmlns:u="urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1">
<InstanceID>0</InstanceID>
<Speed>1</Speed>
</u:Play>
</s:Body>
</s:Envelope>

Response:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<s:Envelope s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/" xmlns:s="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/"><s:Body><u:PlayResponse xmlns:u="urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1"></u:PlayResponse></s:Body></s:Envelope>

If you could post the request and response you're seeing (look on the 'Inspectors' tab in Fiddler) when you try to play, we might be able to see the difference and handle it.

Thanks!

HiBitFan · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2010, 03:27:20 pm »

Hm, perhaps I'm doing something wrong but I cannot find the response section.
The following message was marked red by fiddler:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?><s:Envelope xmlns:s="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
<s:Body>
<u:Play xmlns:u="urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1">
<InstanceID>0</InstanceID>
<Speed>1</Speed>
</u:Play>
</s:Body>
</s:Envelope>

The next web session in the list is:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?><s:Envelope xmlns:s="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
<s:Body>
<u:GetPositionInfo xmlns:u="urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1">
<InstanceID>0</InstanceID>
</u:GetPositionInfo>
</s:Body>
</s:Envelope>

I cannot find any message with a body 'PlayResponse'.

Do I only see outbound messages or was there no answer at all ?

H.

Matt · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2010, 04:11:27 pm »

Thanks for the details.

The red is a big clue. It means the device didn't respond or didn't like the command. (but it did start playing, right?)

When you use Fiddler, look at the 'Inspectors' tab. The bottom half of this tab is the response. The 'Headers' or 'TextView' of the bottom response will have the response information. The 'Result' column is also helpful.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2010, 04:31:53 pm »

Now I've got it I think.

The red message is:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?><s:Envelope xmlns:s="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
<s:Body>
<u:Play xmlns:u="urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1">
<InstanceID>0</InstanceID>
<Speed>1</Speed>
</u:Play>
</s:Body>
</s:Envelope>

In the result column it has '500'.

The answer to this message is :

<s:Envelope
      xmlns:s="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/"
      s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/">
   <s:Body>
      <s:Fault>
         <faultcode>s:Client</faultcode>
         <faultstring>UPnPError</faultstring>
         <detail>
            <UPnPError xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:control-1-0">
               <errorCode>701</errorCode>
               <errorDescription>Transition not available</errorDescription>
            </UPnPError>
         </detail>
      </s:Fault>
   </s:Body>
</s:Envelope>

Looks like it couldn't skip to the next song but in fact the receiver did.

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2010, 04:53:00 pm »

We give the Pioneer a file (SetURI) and then tell it to play.

It's a pretty simple transaction, so I'm not sure why it doesn't like it. Maybe it implies a Play when we give it a new file? Or maybe it wants us to wait a while after giving it a file?

I don't suppose Pioneer would be any help? We haven't seen another device throw errors like this.

Thanks a lot for all of your help so far.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #10 on:** April 20, 2010, 02:48:47 pm »

Hi,

I think the command itself is ok.
I just played a bit around and tried to stress the communication between MC and Pioneer. The described error occurs whenever the song is changed and another song is currently played. Error is the same no matter whether a 'skip' is done, a 'play' command is issued to another song of the currently playlist or to a completely different album or for a double click on any other song.
The error does NOT occur if I press 'Pause' first. So my impression is that the receiver just wants to be explicitely halted before getting a new 'Play' command.

However the sequence Play -> Pause -> Skip is not handled properly too although there is no error detected in the Fiddler. When pressing Skip the new file is ignored and playing of the original files continues just like I would have issued the sequence Play -> Pause -> Pause. MC assumes it's on the next file but in fact the Pioneer is still on the old one.
Again it looks like the Pioneer wants to get a complete stop before switching to the next song.

Hope this helps too.

H.

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** April 20, 2010, 03:35:40 pm »

Thanks for the details.

I wonder if we just didn't issue the 'Play' command when switching files if it would work? Or if we simply ignored errors, or retried a few times?

Can anything else control the Pioneer well, or is it just a bit flaky? Are there any firmware updates for the unit?

Thanks again.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #12 on:** April 20, 2010, 04:11:04 pm »

I'm not sure that I understand what you want to tell me.

Yes, I've tried some other control points. Each of it had some problems although not always in the same area.
Therefore I was very happy when I realized that you plan to have 'full' DLNA support with MC15.

There is no official firmware update available for this receiver. There is an inofficial one on the internet which should fix some problems with iPod support. But I'm very carefull with all updates of unknown sources.

After my latest tests I got the impression that a quite easy workaround may solve the issues:

Command sequences like Play->Skip and Play->Play do not work.
But sequences like Play->Stop->'Mark next file'->Play or Play->Stop->'Mark new file/playlist'->Play do work fine.

So why not adding an additional stop command before sending a new SetURI to the Pioneer renderer.

Just a guess.

H.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2010, 02:10:16 pm »

Hi Matt,

I saw a few other betas coming in the meantime. Any update on my issues?
Do you still plan to support DSP Studio for DLNA renderers?

Concerning support for Pioneer receivers: I found a UPnP Control Point software which could handle skipping songs well (/4u2stream.4u2sites.com) for my receiver. Unfortunately fiddler wasn't able to grap the UPNP commands for this tool. So I cannot tell the commands which are really working.

H.

Matt · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2010, 02:57:01 pm »

Thanks for the follow-up.

We're working on adding DSP Studio support for DLNA playback now. It may be a couple weeks before it's public.

For the error with skipping tracks, coming in build 33 we've added this:
Changed: When controlling a DLNA device, a stop command is issued before switching tracks to help with devices that don't like switching tracks while playing. (may help Pioneer receivers, etc.)

Please let us know how you fare once the new build is available in a few days.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2010, 03:48:39 pm »

Hi Matt,

I've updated from version 32 to version 35 in the meantime.
Navigation is completely stable now for the Pioneer. While playing I can skip forward, backward or jump to a totally different file of my library without any problems. Thanks a lot !!!!!

However I tried to stress your nice piece of software a bit more ...

So I connected to a remote MC library server (not a DNLA server). Starting the first album the error msg 'There was a problem controlling the selected DLNA device' was raised. The first song is skip and the second one of the album is played. This only happens once directly after changing the library. An initialization issue ?

More annoying is the fact that albums are not played at all. The renderer always stops after the first song.
The display/Control Point indicates that the second song was started but after five seconds it's bounced back to second 0:00. This now goes into an endless loop. Looks like the control point is assuming that is has loaded a complete playlist to the renderer. But the renderer only got one song and then does not know how to continue after this title.

To be precise again this only happens with remote libraries !
The same sequence of commands works fine for the Default library.

Therefore I'm still happy because my original scenario is working now.

Thanks again,

H.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2010, 03:55:31 pm »

I don't follow exactly what you're doing, but Library Server and DLNA Server are two different protocols.

HiBitFan · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:06:48 pm »

Yes, I know. But this shouldn't matter.
I just use the DNLA protocol to connect to the renderer and the library server protocol to connect to the server.

Because MC allows me to do this I thought this combination is supported.

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:17:07 pm »

Please describe the machines involved and what they do. Are there three?

HiBitFan · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:29:33 pm »

Yes, three machines are involved:

Asus EeePC (WinXP, MC beta 35), acting as Frontend and DNLA Control Point
Asus EeeBox(WinXP, MC beta 35), acting as MC library server
Pioneer AV Receiver, acting as DNLA Renderer

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:34:25 pm »

So, of the two PC's, which is the DLNA Server?

HiBitFan · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:44:14 pm »

I assume that's the 'tricky' question:

The EeeBox is NOT configured as DNLA server. Therefore from the DNLA renderers point of view the EeePC is the DNLA server. But this machine then retrieves the real files from the EeeBox via MC library server protocol.

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:49:09 pm »

It's DLNA, not DNLA.

To send files to a DLNA Renderer, there must be a DLNA Server serving them.

If you're using a DLNA Server to serve files that are coming from a Library Server on another machine, that probably won't work.

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Author Topic: Using a Pioneer AV Receiver as UPnP Renderer for MC (Read 13750 times)