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Author Topic: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality  (Read 2938 times)

AVI

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MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« on: May 26, 2010, 07:32:46 am »

Dear All,

Jim H suggested I start a new thread on this subject as I had originally posted it in MC15 Feature Requests. My Post there was as follows;

Hi, firstly MC is certainly, from an audio point of view, the best media player / management application around and certainly worthy of audiophile use. As someone who's business is in high end AV and systems integration, I'm pretty convinced of this.

From my point of view, I would like to see development on never ending 'features' reduce before MC turns into a bloated desktop application.

What would be an upgrade is for attention to be paid to a rewrite or significant extension to the existing API. People have been asking for better remote control functionality from TCP/IP devices for a long time now and not much has happened. Web Remote is not an answer. Far from it. A better API opens up MC to be used with third party control products properly so people can search media libraries and make use of MC's unique functions like multi-zone audio and synchronising of outputs.

In my world, media servers are now common place and the market is shifting to clients using 'PC' products for this purpose rather than waste money on proprietary offerings. However control of these devices by iPhones, UMPC's and with control products from companies like AMX and Crestron is of the utmost importance. Crap like iTunes can be controlled via third party software, as can WMP and Windows Media Center. MC is so poor in this regard as to make the existing API useless.

I really think this is a priorit
y.

Now I don't claim to be an out and out expert on what MC can and cannot do, but there seem to be some holes in its functionality. Jim has suggested the Web Service offers some of my required functionality, but I don't see where and in any case, browser based control looks terrible and is only relevant to this device, not as part of an interface for an integrated system. An API would really open the program up. The amount of people who have asked for an app, iphone or otherwise, will never get one that offers full control unless the API is expanded.   Using MC commercially (assuming JRiver want to appeal to this market) is a bit of a non starter as systems like Crestron, AMX and the growing band of iPhone / iPad based control systems can only talk to it in a very limited way. All these systems need a 2 way command structure sent to an IP address and port.

I imagine with quite a bit of work a separate application sitting on the PC could insert itself into MC, monitor it and provide a control interface from there in much the same way as Autonomics MCS does for Windows Media Center, Windows Media Player and iTunes. Given that, that application is $500-1000 a go, it would be more attractive to have the API in the core software in the first place, plus its also much simpler. Having said that we (and an ever growing Media Center system builder base) use that software because it turns Windows Media Center into a superior alternative to the likes of Kaliedescape, Imerge, Sooloos and other overpriced proprietry Media Servers etc.

Just to reiterate on some of the functions that make MC so attractive as a potential Media Server product;

1) It sounds fantastic - It really is in audiophile class.
2) It supports every type of sound card I have ever tried with it. For instance MC is the only 'media player' I have ever tried that works with this product

http://www.esi-audio.com/products/gigaporthd/ - A very neat and good sounding way to get multi zone audio from an ITX sized PC

3) It syncs to any portable easily including iPods and provides the massive benefit of converting files from quality to portable quality. There is even an iPhone solution.

4) It has multi-zone audio and more importantly synchronised multi-zone audio. This allows us integrators to do away with multi-room matrix switches. I really can't overemphasize the benefit of this.

5) Theatre View is also a great benefit and gives us a 10ft remote or touch screen GUI, even if some functions disappear, but that comes back to the API again.

So please, if anyone else wants the kind of functionality MC, so very nearly offers already, please add to this topic and maybe the developers will take notice.
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yap

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 07:42:03 am »

Hello
I have been a MC fan for a long time...I am currently using MC 12 (I think!) with Netremote & Girder, I mainly use it for music and photo.

This setup is working perfect (fingers crossed!) with 500+ albums (wav files), currently customized  netremote allows me to browse albums, create playlists, control multi-zone streaming and importantly timer that I can setup to do server sleep (never got a chance to complete the end of playlist sleep implementation).

I always recommend MC to friends but they give up on it when I point out that netremote is the only way to control it via true remote control style device (PDA) and you will have to spend time on customization to do anything clever!

I think MC team should spend more time now on developing versatile remote control that can run on variety of new touch screen devices with easy customization add-ons, this way it will be able to compete with main stream systems such as iTunes, squeezserver & controller, Sonos...

May be then ordinary people would easily relate to MC rather than current market of geeks/techno enthusiasts who don’t mind spending endless hours tinkering with the system rather then sitting back and enjoying the product.

I keep thinking of upgrading the MC but don’t have time to migrate to new netremote and Girder + customizing for new versions of MC so been looking at squeezeserver + MC with ipeng or squeezmote route and it don’t seem to be a clean solution, will try out new MC 15 with new WebRemote features...doesn’t seem to be that feature rich and graphically impressive from looking at pictures…


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JimH

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 07:44:24 am »

I'm not sure exactly what you expect, but here are some resources.  Let me know more and maybe I can help.  We're definitely interested in the AV space you're in.

http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Remotes

On that page, see Tremote.  It's MC running on a tablet or other Win device, as a remote control for an HTPC.

http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/DevZone
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JimH

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2010, 07:48:26 am »

I always recommend MC to friends but they give up on it when I point out that netremote is the only way to control it via true remote control style device (PDA) and you will have to spend time on customization to do anything clever!
Thanks.  If you want graphical, try Tremote and Theater View as a remote.
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AVI

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2010, 09:09:23 am »

OK,

Re the remotes page, Tremote is kind of the idea, but again this is just dedicated to MC and if you are using Theatre View, and want to start all your zones playing together, you can't, you have to use the desktop interface and get your stylus out. Not that user friendly.

The MusicLobby application (first time I have seen this) looks exactly the sort of control I am talking about. I am going to contact them concerning there use of MC as its not entirely clear but this app is the right approach as your can browse, search and use multiple zones, albeit at a price.

Re the API commands. Yes I have been here before. Despite being extensive, key commands are not there. So for instance, List Artists, List Albums and associated search etc. This might look like

Command:
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JimH

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2010, 09:18:22 am »

Musiclobby may no longer be a compatible solution.

If you can make a concise list of what you think is missing, we'll take a look at it.

Are you thinking of writing your own app?  

Theater View's interface can be customized.  You can add a link to an app.
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Matt

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2010, 09:59:11 am »

Re the API commands. Yes I have been here before. Despite being extensive, key commands are not there. So for instance, List Artists, List Albums and associated search etc. This might look like

Command:

Be sure to investigate the MCWS (Media Center Web Service) that is part of v15 and runs with Library Server.  It's a REST-based interface that is the same interface we use for all the other server work in the program.  You can see the function list by using: Options > Network > Library Server > MCWS (web service) > Open with web browser...

WebRemote is an HTML layer built on top of the MCWS.  It is designed to be fully skinnable and changeable.  We would be delighted to see third party developers run with this.  If there is functionality missing that you need from the MCWS or HTML engine, just let us know.

Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

yap

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 10:37:17 am »

Thanks Jim, that is what exactly I am talking about (Tremote & Theater View), if you want something user friendly you have to get down and dirty with the code, not everyone's idea of fun with the product! In my opinion, one of the Apple’s popularity appeals is their GUI design.

Why can't MC team come up with a Remote control app that can run on various platforms, I am sure you will get lots more new customers on MC + Remote Control, think of extra revenue for relatively short development effort as the team already knows the code behind MC!
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Matt

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 10:40:15 am »

Why can't MC team come up with a Remote control app that can run on various platforms, I am sure you will get lots more new customers on MC + Remote Control, think of extra revenue for relatively short development effort as the team already knows the code behind MC!


WebRemote is a remote control for Media Center that runs anywhere, including on any computer, iPhone, or Google Android device.

It's a new feature in v15.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

JimH

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 10:47:14 am »

... that is what exactly I am talking about (Tremote & Theater View), if you want something user friendly you have to get down and dirty with the code ...
Theater View is user friendly.  There's no coding needed.
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AVI

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2010, 12:12:13 pm »

Matt, thanks for the pointer to the MCWS commands. I will have a long hard look at these.

Instantly though there needs to be the following;

1) An option to sync zones, but in an 'add to main zone' form rather than a blanket 'sync all'.

2) There also needs to be a search function, which searches based on the current selection be it Artist, Album, Genre or Playlist. I can see Search is included but not how you filter. Typically other systems (even browsing an iPod) would search based upon a sub category i.e. Artists, then return results based on a letter, i.e. 'A'. The results would then narrow as extra letters i.e 'AB' are added.

These are my two main requests.

From here we should be able to build an interface. Building a skin is not really of interest, because as I have said, this is only relevant to MC, not integrating it into a system.

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yap

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2010, 10:39:10 am »

What I am looking for is feature rich remote control GUI that can be used on touch screen devices (not PCs or nettops or netbooks), something like sonos controller + squeezecontoller type remote for MC.
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JimH

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2010, 10:49:47 am »

Any touchscreen Windows machine should be able to run Tremote.  Tremote is MC, so the interface is identical.  It's used to control another copy of MC.

Theater View has a touchscreen specific skin called "Obsidian Touchscreen".
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yap

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2010, 09:40:03 am »

Are there any images to view of Tremote and "Obsidian" skin?
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JimH

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Re: MC15 Third Party Control Functionality
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2010, 10:36:04 am »

You could see it by running MC15.  Theater View is the same whether you're using Tremote or not.

Here are some pictures on pix01.com:
http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Hulu_and_Theater_View/thumbnails.html

You could search for more there.
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