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[Niebla]

MC is grate, but it is has become too complex...

I use MC for music, but I still dont feel confortable for managing my photos collection... I like MC as a organizer (tagging...), but it is a horrible viewer... so I don't use it...


My needs are very basic...

-I want to view selected images (one at a time)
-I want to be able to rotate and crop (with just a click, no right button...)
-I want to be able to rate the visible photo (with just one click)
-I want to be able to delete it  (with just one click)
-I want to browse the selected images easily (next/previous/images previews...)


I like MC's Display View... but it lacks some basic options...I think that could be the place to put the features I am asking for...


I know MC can do all that... but it is way to complex. So I use Windows Explorer and/or Microsoft Office Picture Manager... This is why:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/Presentaci%C3%B3n1/Diapositiva1.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/Presentaci%C3%B3n1/Diapositiva2.PNG


What do you think? Is possible to improve MC usability in this area?

[Matt]

You might try clicking the magnifying glass at the top left of any image thumbnail.

[Niebla]

I've been using MC for at least 5 years... ¡And I didnt know that option!... (Probably because I don't use it to view pictures...)

I like this magnified view... It seems to allow easy browsing... But I found some big issues:

-Arrows key don't work for me... How are we supposed to browse images?
-Big next/previous buttons do nothing eighter... It is confusing...
-No easy rotating (it should be just one click, and I dont understand whar "left" rotation means... ¿left?... It has to be an icon... as microsoft does)
-"Show rating" does not work

I am a very advanced computer user... and MC seems to very dificult to me (at least ,for this basic browsing tasks)... I  can't ask my wife or parents to use MC (and I would like to...)... They prefer this:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/Presentaci%C3%B3n1/Diapositiva1.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/Presentaci%C3%B3n1/Diapositiva2.PNG

By the way, I'm using 14.0.165...

 

[sunfire7]

WOW Matt !! i didnt knew that option too (magnifying glass thing) !!

My request to improve this:

An option similar to "hide tree", to hide another split view if any, to hide the playing now window for example !!!

[Niebla]

I think you could include  "magnifying glass" features in "Display view"... This way, display view would become the place to browse photos and make basic edition... (the kind of things we do when download picture from the camera...)...



Does it make sense?

[JimH]

You can zoom with the mouse wheel.  Also the + and - characters on a keyboard.

[rick.ca]

A "Display View" is not a mode you should expect to be able to do all the things you want to do. This is the version 15 forum, so I've taken the liberty to use that to produce the attached screen shot. You probably can't do the same thing in 14. This is a Standard Panes View in full screen mode with thumbnails set at their largest. This facilitates viewing images one-at-a-time (scrolling with the scroll bar, mouse wheel or arrow keys). With pane tagging enabled, a rating (or any other categories included in panes) can be set with one click. All the other functions you require are on the context menu, including easy access to a simple editor. That will cost you an extra click or two, but does much more than you say you need—while being easy enough for anyone to use.

I think this is a valid demonstration of something you're probably well aware of from using the program for music. The same power and flexibility that allows us to do whatever we want can also be called "too complicated." You can't have it both ways. If you really are a "very advanced computer user," you should have no difficulty figuring out how to make it work for you—if you give it a chance. You might even be able to configure things so less capable family members can use it too. But please don't ask that the program be made to act like some Microsoft craplet.

[Niebla]

A "Display View" is not a mode you should expect to be able to do all the things you want to do.

Other more basic programs do it.

I am not talking about "Microsoft Windows Media"... I am talking about the "Photo viewer" what does more that just "view" photos:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/View-and-use-your-pictures-in-Windows-Photo-Viewer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Picture_and_Fax_Viewer

I expect that in "Display mode"

This is the version 15 forum, so I've taken the liberty to use that to produce the attached screen shot. You probably can't do the same thing in 14. This is a Standard Panes View in full screen mode with thumbnails set at their largest.

Yes, I've tried that also... and it didn't like me for the following reasons:
-Hard transitions while using arrow keys
-I'd would like to preview the rest of images
-I don't need the "panes" (I know I can hide it...)
-I don't need the "tree" (I know I can hide it...)
-I would like to rate (the rating does not appear on the top and "show rating" is selected ¿?)

You have to understand my "process"...

Before tagging, my family and I like to enjoy browsing the photos and making basic editions (delete, crop and rotate). It has to be enjoyable and easy (no right clicking, no switching between viewing modes...). 

The "tagging process" is different, and later, and "Standard view" is OK.

But please don't ask that the program be made to act like some Microsoft craplet.

They know about usability. Belive me :-)

[rick.ca]

Before tagging, my family and I like to enjoy browsing the photos and making basic editions (delete, crop and rotate). It has to be enjoyable and easy (no right clicking, no switching between viewing modes...).

That's too bad. You'll have to suffer other software.

[Niebla]

That's too bad. You'll have to suffer other software.

Right now, we are using the "Photo viewer" in the first step (rotate, delete, crop)... And it would be OK if MC displayed the images correctly rotated (and it does not...).

We have another limitation: We can not rate the photos in this first step.

As you see, the situation is far from perfect... and that's why I am here proposing this enhancement...

Do you really think my proposal is "silly" or "unrealizable"? As a MC15 Beta Team member, Could you consider it as an option?

In summary, what I am proposing is that double clicking a file in Windows Explorer, MC would open in "Display View" mode and basic edition become possible and easier to use (for users that don't like and don't need many options).

[marko]

You can rate pictures from display view using the rating stars in the 'fade-in' player bar that you see when you move your mouse to the top of the screen.

Press the delete key to delete the current photo.

MC uses EXIF info to orientate images if it is present in the image. If this is incorrect, use the rotate commands in MC to correct the exif info.

==============

Step back and think a little...

You have made several posts stating that various things cannot be done, and then been shown how to do those things. Next time you think something can't be done, you may be right, but consider that you maybe just haven't learned how to yet, so perhaps, maybe ask first, kind of like "is this possible?" or "how do I.. ?"

Regards,
-marko.

[Niebla]

Step back and think a little...

You have made several posts stating that various things cannot be done, and then been shown how to do those things. Next time you think something can't be done, you may be right, but consider that you maybe just haven't learned how to yet, so perhaps, maybe ask first, kind of like "is this possible?" or "how do I.. ?"

I'm sorry. I know my English is far from perfect.

When I said that "We can not rate the photos in this first step" I meant that we can not do that using Microsoft Photo Viewer...

I know (and I knew) that that things can be done with MC. I didn't say anything else. What I am saying is that it is not easy and it is not "enjoyable".

I think I've been constructive... I explained what I like and what I don't. I also try to expose what I am trying to achieve. I even propose concrete solutions:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/requestMC15.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/Presentaci%C3%B3n1/Diapositiva1.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/Presentaci%C3%B3n1/Diapositiva2.PNG

[marko]

There's no need to apologise, and I appreciate your intentions, so don't be discouraged

One very important point that has just occurred to me, and may well get lost in the noise, is that you are running MC v14. You should try v15 and see if you like some of the new viewing features it contains.

rick has already posted a shot of one standard view layout you could employ, and here's another. This is not cropped, this is what you see on screen. Here, you have ratings, keywords, or anything else you fancy down the left side, a useful right-click menu and a nice big image preview. You get into this "Cover view" state by pressing ctrl+5 or clicking on the square icon to the right of the thumbnail slider.

preview has to be the operative word here, wouldn't you agree?
you've just imported a batch of images and want to run through them applying quick tags such as ratings, and rotate any that may require it, and delete any rubbish. In my mind, and my own personal workflow, I call that previewing. Actual viewing, in glorious display view, comes after that, when we can sit and watch a slideshow, to music if we fancy, reading any captions I've applied, and not worry about rotating things and deleting rubbish.

btw, if you have been using MC for 5+ years, you should remember a time when we didn't even have a thumbnail slider!! We had to go into "Customise View" to change the size of the thumbnails!! Imagine
MC has come a looong loong way with regards to image handling in the past 3 years or so. I can't get into using its image editor at all, (reasons have been posted, can't find link right now) and it still can't do EXIF date/time shifting, but for previewing / viewing images, MC is all I need now, and 3 years or so ago, that was certainly not the case. Sometimes, you just need a bit of patience, grasshopper!

regards,
-marko

[rick.ca]

As a MC15 Beta Team member, Could you consider it as an option?

No. Beta Team members test and comment on beta releases. When it comes to feature requests, we're just users like you. You're free to make whatever suggestions you like, and everyone else is free to comment on them. As a general comment, I'll say that if you refuse to even consider a fundamental design premise (like Display View is a player, not an editor), your suggestion is likely to be dismissed as infeasible or silly, even if your need is real and it has merit in a different context.

If you're serious about making a suggestion that might find it's way into the program, you need to consider more than just your own perspective. Ask yourself why the relevant aspect of the program is designed the way it is. How might it be meeting the needs of others who do things differently than you? How might the program be changed to you get what you want without others being adversely affected? Is the added utility of the change of more value than the cost of any added complexity? You'll know if you have good suggestion if you can justify it in terms of the benefits for a significant portion of users, the lack of harm to the rest, and without even referring to your personal preferences. The program is never changed to suit the preferences of one user.

[marko]

rick, niebla,

I'm off to bed, catch you later.

-marko.

[Niebla]

No. Beta Team members test and comment on beta releases. When it comes to feature requests, we're just users like you. You're free to make whatever suggestions you like, and everyone else is free to comment on them. As a general comment, I'll say that if you refuse to even consider a fundamental design premise (like Display View is a player, not an editor), your suggestion is likely to be dismissed as infeasible or silly, even if your need is real and it has merit in a different context.

If you're serious about making a suggestion that might find it's way into the program, you need to consider more than just your own narrow perspective. Ask yourself why the relevant aspect of the program is designed the way it is. How might it be meeting the needs of others who do things differently than you? How might the program be changed to you get what you want without others being adversely affected? Is the added utility of the change of more value than the cost of any added complexity? You'll know if you have good suggestion if you can justify it in terms of the benefits for a significant portion of users, the lack of harm to the rest, and without even referring to your personal preferences. The program is never changed to suit the preferences of one user.

OK. I'll make a thought about it.

But I think this is a two way thing.

Why any other major "viewer" allows also basic edition features? Why does the "Preview image" allows to edit images? In what rock is  written that "Display Mode" is a player and not an editor? Why does this "viewer" has "Advanced Image Commands" that allows editing? How the rating features was included in "Display mode"? Is the actual "Preview image" best located the place it is? Why big navigation are useless in "Preview image" mode? Why many people get intimidated while using MC? Could the "Display Mode" be usable for a casual user? Does make sense to reproduce functionally that is already build in in Windows machines? Would a "familiar interface" encourage more people to use MC?

I love MC, and I've recommend it to many people. No one uses it. They say it is too complicated.

I am not asking to add functionality. I am talking about improve usability.

Anyway, as I told you, I'll make another thought about it.

[Lasse_Lus]

-I want to be able to rate the visible photo (with just one click)

then you should try Doof's excellent plugin "captionater 3000" http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=33519.0

[rick.ca]

OK. I'll make a thought about it.

Good. When you're doing so, please consider this. First, many committed users are making very effective use of the program for managing photos. Contrary to being "too complicated," it's a lot simpler and easier to use than some other more advanced image manager/editors out there. It's tagging features are advanced, but the same as those for music. We're not necessarily geniuses or geeks or obsessive-compulsive cataloguers. So we might not appreciate being told we're out-of-touch and don't know how to enjoy our photos.

Second, instead of asking yourself why the program doesn't work the way you think it should or the way some other program does, ask why it is designed the way it is. Consider the possibility it's because it was designed by a very talented development team who takes into account the advice of many experienced and committed users. Maybe it doesn't work the way you expect it to work for very good reason. Even if you don't agree with that reason, you might have to conclude it's not going to be changed just because of your opinion or preference. But if you consider these matters with an open mind, you might discover a better way to do things. Microsoft image viewing applets set a very low standard. Look UP.

[Niebla]

Consider the possibility it's because it was designed by a very talented development team who takes into account the advice of many experienced and committed users. Maybe it doesn't work the way you expect it to work for very good reason.

(snip)

Microsoft image viewing applets set a very low standard. Look UP.

I know they are a very talented team. And I've read a thread that they care a lot for familiar issues (wifes, girfriends...). This is a FAMILY ISSUE.

My wife uses microsoft viewer to set orientation and I don't get the images right in MC (I know about the EXIF issue... Microsoft fault). My goal is that my wife accepts MC... but you already know her requirements...

Do I look for another image viewer or should I look for another wife?

:-)

[raldo]

Do I look for another image viewer or should I look for another wife?

Ha ha. I kind of agree that a basic rotation tool could be appropriate in display view.

"Consistent or not" with the design, that's not the issue, I'd say. I frequently just upload a whole bunch of photos to a folder and browse them using MC. Rotation would be nice. The rotation tool is actually one of the main reasons why I occasionally use "Windows Media And fax viewer" to view photos on the fly.

I've previously argued that i believe that the MC team should prioritize user friendliness wrt. image browsing and organization, as opposed to image utilities such as cropping, balancing, red eye fixing, face detection, face recognition, etc.

Other applications can do the advanced tasks.

Rotation is, of course, a "utility" but it is of such "basic nature", I guess, that I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to do those in display view.-

[Niebla]

If you're serious about making a suggestion that might find it's way into the program, you need to consider more than just your own narrow perspective. Ask yourself why the relevant aspect of the program is designed the way it is.

Hi Nick,

As I told you, I've been thinking about the request I did.

And I am convinced MC has a serious usability issue here.

I think it should be easier to rotate images from "Display view". All other major images viewers allow that. For instance, ADCSee Manager has two modes (viewer, and manager) equivalents to MC Standard View and MC Display View. ACDSee Viewer allows browsing and basic edition:

http://store.acdsee.com/store/acd/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.156603200

Microsoft also has 2 productos: Microsoft Media Center, and Photo Visualizer... And the viewer allows easy rotation...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6286874/Presentaci%C3%B3n1/Diapositiva2.PNG

I am sure any other viewer allows that. After dobluble clicking an image in Windows Explorer, users expect to browse the folder and rotate images. I've been talking with collegues, and everyone agrees on that.

MC allows rotation from "Display View", but it is too difficult. I suggest to include that buttons on "Display View".

[rick.ca]

For instance, ADCSee Manager has two modes (viewer, and manager) equivalents to MC Standard View and MC Display View.

I've used ACDSee for years, and it will serve to illustrate my point nicely. The purpose and nature of MC's Display View and ACDSee's viewer modes are completely different. As has already been explained, the equivalent of these viewer modes are already available in Standard View. Just as you might use the ACDSee viewer (rather than the full editor) to make simple adjustments to images, you would use Standard View in MC. ACDSee also has a Slide Show mode. This is what you should be comparing to MC's Display View. The purpose of both is to display or "play" images, not edit or adjust them. The ACDSee Slide Show viewer doesn't allow any adjustments at all.

[Lasse_Lus]

MC allows rotation from "Display View", but it is too difficult. I suggest to include that buttons on "Display View".

do i miss something here ?  ? toolbar add button "Rotate Right/Left" is not what you are looking for ?

edit: i see you are talking about display view, what about the command line

31001  MCC_IMAGE_ROTATE_LEFT,
31002  MCC_IMAGE_ROTATE_RIGHT
31003  MCC_IMAGE_ROTATE_UPSIDEDOWN

customize the way you want it, would'nt that work  and execute for example with a remote or voicecommand or a "hotkey"

edit2: "if i check your need list", everything is possible maybe not crop with one click, but is that possible at all ?..edit the image has command 31005

you also know that you can send your file/files to external tool..?

MC has no "usability issue", only "user issues" 

[rick.ca]

customize the way you want it, would'nt that work

Yes, that would work nicely. But where would the buttons go?

[Niebla]

customize the way you want it, would'nt that work  and execute for example with a remote or voicecommand or a "hotkey"

Oh... I did not know I could customize Display View... How? Can I add a couple of buttons?

[Lasse_Lus]

display view is buttonfree  but you can use hotkeys...edit resource.xml in the MC installation folder,
do a forum search to find out more

[Niebla]

I've used ACDSee for years, and it will serve to illustrate my point nicely. The purpose and nature of MC's Display View and ACDSee's viewer modes are completely different.

Sorry. Actually, I have to confess I do not know how ACDSee actually works... but I liked their snapshot.

I thought MC Display View could be a nice place to fit what I am looking for. You don't. May be, the solucion is to create a new view that enables easy edition and browsing.

I'll take another look at MC Preview Mode (I am using MC15 now, and I just see it has changed since MC14)... Now, arrows keys work. I am glad to see MC are improving that preview mode... does make sense to include that as a "view mode" in the "View" menu....

I just discovered "Cover View" does something similiar at what I was proposing...

I'll keep looking at it...

[Niebla]

display view is button free 

Not in my MC15 installation.

I've planty of buttons and other information... most of which just don't make sense while browing photos:
Volume? Position? Repaet off? Shudle off? DSP Studio? Total duration? Come on!

Really there is not space to rotate images?

[Lasse_Lus]

..then you are talking about standard view..or there are buttons if you hoover the mouse to the top..but what is a button ? the keyboard buttons are always visible to me anyway..

[zxsix]

If you're serious about making a suggestion that might find it's way into the program, you need to consider more than just your own narrow perspective. Ask yourself why the relevant aspect of the program is designed the way it is. How might it be meeting the needs of others who do things differently than you? How might the program be changed to you get what you want without others being adversely affected? Is the added utility of the change of more value than the cost of any added complexity? You'll know if you have good suggestion if you can justify it in terms of the benefits for a significant portion of users, the lack of harm to the rest, and without even referring to your personal preferences. The program is never changed to suit the preferences of one user.

This here is the type of person I hire to work for me.  Very good, sir.

[rick.ca]

This here is the type of person I hire to work for me.  Very good, sir.

Thanks.

But it seems to be the same personality trait that makes me an unemployable SOB.

[Niebla]

This here is the type of person I hire to work for me.  Very good, sir.

But he forget to mention one little thing. He don't uses MC to rotate image and delete rubbish. He does just like me. Before importing, he uses a third application. I use Microsoft products and he uses Directory Opus.

So this feature request will not help just "one user". At least, 2 persons will be happy. He and me.

What's your process to download images from camera? When do you fix orientation? How do you cull the bad ones?

[marko]

When importing jpg files, I use MC, and MC only for this task. It couldn't be simpler.

There are numerous interface options in standard view that give a huge image preview, the rotate and rate commands readily available, "shift+delete --> enter" to remove rubbish. It's excellent and all I need.
For rotating pictures, I generally start in small thumbnail view, and then go through them, ctrl+clicking the ones that need rotating, then right click and do them all at once. Then I'll move to a large, fit-to-window image view and cycle through the photos one at a time.

It does not take long. Once all the rubbish has been deleted, and the remainder have been tagged, I select them all and "rename from properties" to have MC move the new photos to their final resting place in my photos folder.

I start with MC too. What I mean by that is that, despite being a Directory Opus user myself, it does not feature in the workflow. MC imports the files, then I go directly to a view that shows all my photos, with the ones just imported grouped together at the top, and all the rest at the bottom. This gives me quick access to the new photos, and at the same time, the keywords pane is populated with all existing photo keywords, making tagging the new photos so much easier to boot.

-marko.

[Mr ChriZ]

-No easy rotating (it should be just one click, and I dont understand whar "left" rotation means... ¿left?... It has to be an icon... as microsoft does)

 

[rick.ca]

So this feature request will not help just "one user". At least, 2 persons will be happy. He and me.

Please speak for yourself. My primary point was MC is perfectly capable of all the necessary functions—as Marko has explained. My secondary point was, if you choose to use a file manager instead, you might try using a capable one. I only use Directory Opus because I'm very comfortable using it for file management generally, and therefore find it very efficient for "pre-processing" photos. My choice in no way suggests there are deficiencies in MC.

It's no longer clear what "this feature request" is. We've explained why MC does not behave in exactly the same manner as other software, why allowing adjustments in Display View is not logical (and likely not feasible), and how all the things you're asking for are already available in Standard View. I suggest you give those features a try—even if they're not your favourite way of doing things—and then, if necessary, make suggestions for how those might be improved.

[Niebla]

Please speak for yourself.

OK. I apologize for that.

My primary point was MC is perfectly capable of all the necessary functions—as Marko has explained.

I agree. But my point is that is should be easier. Others are agreed with me.

My secondary point was, if you choose to use a file manager instead, you might try using a capable one.

Sorry. I am not going to change Windows Explorer. I am happy with it.

It's no longer clear what "this feature request" is. We've explained why MC does not behave in exactly the same manner as other software, why allowing adjustments in Display View is not logical (and likely not feasible), and how all the things you're asking for are already available in Standard View.

You and others have said that. But me and others think different way. IMO, I've not heard a good reason why rotation in Display View is available only by hard way of doing things. Rotation is not an "Advanced Image Command".

I've not heard any statement from JRiver about that. He might be listen my suggestion. Or they might not.

My feature request is:

-"Play in MC" should open all folder files in "Display View" (as default Windows photo viewer does).
- Being able to easily fix orientation  (cropping would be nice also) from "Display View" (without switching between different views...you know... I want a couple of buttons).

I would be happy if same thing could be obtained not from Display View, but for "Edition View", or whatever else MC could implement... My requirement is "easy of use". I want to double click a image and being able to work with that folder as I do in simpler applications.

I suggest you give those features a try—even if they're not your favourite way of doing things—and then, if necessary, make suggestions for how those might be improved.

I will. I am looking at MC15 right now, and I've seen some things marko said, and I liked it. I think there are still things to improve.

If my feature request is not listen now, I will ask again a couple of months later, or whenever. I want to use MC for photo management. But I am not comfortable with current features. I had the same problems 2 years ago:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=48019.msg329159#msg329159

I am doing this request because images apper rotated in MC. MC is not compatible with Microsoft's rotation (MS fault, I don't discuss that). If so, I could handle it...using Windows Explorer as you use Directory Opus...

I am not going to fix rotation twice. I want to fix rotation directly in MC. But it should be easier.

[MrHaugen]

I am not going to fix rotation twice. I want to fix rotation directly in MC. But it should be easier.

I really don't understand the problem here.

- First of, MC's Display View is for.... yes, that's correct. Displaying. Not editing.
- Secondly, normal view could do most, if not all, of what you want. you can add a whole album to playing now, and browse that list. Enter plays image. Alternatively put the Playing now in a split setup, and the other split view to the library. Easy navigating the images with arrow keys. Enter shows image (if the default action is set correctly).
- Set the Image Rotation icons to the toolbars, and you'll have an easy way of changing directions.
- Set a keyboard shortcut for the rotate commands, and you can probably do this from display view as well


If it's more easy to use a separate program for editing, and then add the images to MC, there is other problems I did not see when skipping through this text.

[Niebla]

I really don't understand the problem here.

- First of, MC's Display View is for.... yes, that's correct. Displaying. Not editing.

The problem is that I found many rotated images while displaying images. I would like to fix rotation, and keep displaying images. This is not possible in MC. I am forced to switch between views or accessing deep submenus.

IMO, “rotation” is not exactly an edition feature, it is almost a displaying option. I know I’ve workarounds. I could flip the monitor upside down.
I’ve some arguments why I prefer Display View over Standard View…

• Display View is the default view when I open a file with MC.
• Display View allows zooming.
• Display view’s transitions are nicer that browsing images in standard view
• I see standard view as a great tool for organizing images and for working with a bunch of file simultaneously (tagging, thumbnailing…).
• Display view works over an individual file, and rotation is essentially an action over an individual file.
• Displaying an image is a loseless action, just like rotating it with MC .-)

But I might be wrong… Do you mean I am “not allow” to display images if I’ve not fix rotation previously… Why? I feel MC wants to change the way I watch pictures, but I don’t see anything wrong the way I’m doing it.

[Lasse_Lus]

Niebla, why are you STILL writing "This is not possible in MC"..when that is not true ?

[Niebla]

Niebla, why are you STILL writing "This is not possible in MC"..when that is not true ?

Sorry, I meant that it is not possible in "Display View" without switching between views or accessing deep submenus or configuring and remembering some shortcuts (I think).


In my last post, I forget some reasons why I prefer Display View over standard view:

• Rotation is the only "edition" action I do 95% of the times (the other 5% is croping or ocasionally lightening...).
• If I had those buttons one day, I would use it more that I've used the default buttons in my whole life...

Please, don't interpret my messages as it MUST be "Display View"... I wuold be happy if another view (Cover View, Edition View, ...) allowed what I am looking for: Displaying full screen images, with a neat interface, being able to rotate images... What is your suggestion? Cover view in edit mode? I've been trying it, and I really dont feel comfortable... I want something simpler... I don't want to "switch" between modes... I want to emulate "Windows Image Viewer"... Sorry for that. Do you admit Windows default viewer covers my "requirements" nicer that MC?

[Lasse_Lus]

Niebla: you have to read and maybe reread what members write..otherwise this show will go on forever   

[Niebla]

Niebla: you have to read and maybe reread what members write..otherwise this show will go on forever   

OK. I will reread the full thread later... I will. I promise.

But let me make a question.... I've found an option in "Display View" that says: "Show ratings"... Why not to add a similar option to "Add rotate buttons"... Would you dislike that? I am not asking if you will use it... I am asking if you will dislike that...

I will post a poll about this feature request...

[MrHaugen]

Niebla, this is getting kind of silly. With MC 15, you can do the things I mentioned above, if you just give it a few minutes to set up. Additionally you have the ability (in normal mode) to 1. Hide the action pane and tree view. 2. You can maximize the view you are in. this will give you a neat and clean view, which is very much like a display view with edit options. If you set the shortcuts for rotation, you'd probably be happy, as you say it your self, 95% of the time. The times you have to crop or adjust the lighting, you right click and do what is necessary. Everyone today have a keyboard or a remote controller. And this can easily be set up to issue the Two rotate commands. Problem solved.

If you can not adapt to this, then start another thread and try to illustrate what you mean with this clean ans simple View and Edit option. Illustrations and good explanation of what you would like helps a lot. If the idea is good, then perhaps J River would be interested in making a Photo view like this? Who knows.

The idea of an optional rotation button in Display View is not bad, but I fear the requests for additions there would just be never ending. A small selection of the most useful tools would be handy to display there, I admit. Even though I never use MC for photo editing.

[Lasse_Lus]

iam asking if you will dislike that...

nope

[Niebla]

Niebla, this is getting kind of silly.

I agree.

I'll post a poll.