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Author Topic: M2Tech Hiface problem [solved]  (Read 5312 times)

JazzDoc

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M2Tech Hiface problem [solved]
« on: July 17, 2010, 12:03:39 pm »

I've just bought JRiver Media Center 15 to use with my digital system, which comprises Acer laptop (Windows 7 x64), M2Tech Hiface and Naim DAC/Naim XPS. I have had the system set up for a few weeks now and having been using Foobar2000/DarkOne 2.1. I store my digital audio files on a Samsung 1.5TB external USB hard drive.

When I compared Foobar2000 with JRiver Media Center, the JRiver software offers a punchier sound with improved stereo imaging. I am running Foobar2000 with WinASAPI but JRiver with Asio4All as I can't get WinASAPI to work! I either get no sound from the system although the DAC indicates that a digital stream is being received and synchronised. If I uncheck exclusive use mode I can use WinASAPI with JRiver but it will not play high resolution files. It's not too much of a problem as it sounds really good using Asio4All.

Can anyone help me with this ... How do I configure multiple disc sets into JRiver. My usual way of storing such sets is to have a single directory with the name of the multiple disc set and then sub directories for each of the individual discs. I have named these sub directories CD1, CD2, CD3 etc. This works fine in Foobar2000. I have checked all of the metadata for the flac files and everything is as it should be. When I import a multiple disc directory into JRiver it groups all of the Track 1s together (Not necessarily in disc order) and then all of the Track 2s etc.

If anyone can help with with this I'd be most grateful.

With thanks
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MusicHawk

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Re: Saying hello and needing some help!
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2010, 12:47:37 pm »

Lots of complex matters implied in your questions, but trying to simplify...

There are two concepts that can be dealt with separately: physical file location(s), and how the files are listed, grouped, sorted, etc, in Media Center's database (aka library).

MC doesn't really care where you store music files, or what their subfolders might be. The database views of music files (individual tracks) are presented to you based on tag data and view design and config.

MC has a configurable expression/formula for how folders and tracks are named, therefore how the physical files are organized. It is typically applied when you rip new files. But if you are looking at an existing set of folders/files, accessing them via MC, it won't change that arrangement (though it can, using the Rename, Move, Copy Files tool). MC of course knows where the files are, but this doesn't matter as you look at tracks in the database.

To make the database sort tracks the same way you've organized them in folders, you need to give the database sufficient information, AND set the view to use it to sort. Note that you can organize the database view this way even if the tracks are NOT grouped a certain way in folder (by album and CD, for instance) -- every file could be in a random location and it wouldn't matter to how you tag and view the tracks.

For multi-CD sets, I use the Disc # and Track # fields. Then I click the Track and Disc columns (in that order, so Track is a sort subset of Disc) to tell MC to first sort by Disc #, then by Track #. That will provide what you want. (If you don't see these columns in the view you are using, right-click the column header row and select these fields. You can then drag the columns to where you want them.)

In a view that has multiple albums, some with multiple discs, I sort by Track, Disc, Album (in that order).

If what you want in a view is notably different from the stock views, or you don't want to alter a stock view, you can create a new view. Set it up just as you like. Then (for safety), Save the view. My database has several custom views for this purpose, because I use a bunch of custom fields so created views to better work with them.

If you decide to modify any stock views, also save the modified view so it can be reapplied if (when) MC reverts the stock views to their stock design. I do this for certain stock playlists that MC controls, notably Recently Ripped and Recently Imported, where I want to see and work with different columns.


(Actually, I like 90% of my views to be identical other than grouping/sorting, so I can jump around within the database and always see the same data organization. But note that due to an MC design quirk, visually-identical saved custom view design and custom playlist design can't be interchanged -- unless you dive in and hack the files, as described elsewhere.)



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Managing my media with JRiver since Media Jukebox 8 (maybe earlier), currently use Media Center for Audio/Music and Photos/Videos.
My career in media spans Radio, TV, Print, Photography, Music, Film, Online, Live, Advertising, as producer, director, writer, performer, editor, engineer, executive, owner. An exhausting but amazing ride.

Matt

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Re: Saying hello and needing some help!
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2010, 01:05:03 pm »

For using WASAPI exclusive, you probably need to force 24-bit output using DSP Studio > Output Format.

More information here:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/DAC_Settings

And welcome to Interact!
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Alex B

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Re: Saying hello and needing some help!
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 01:41:51 pm »

Can anyone help me with this ... How do I configure multiple disc sets into JRiver. My usual way of storing such sets is to have a single directory with the name of the multiple disc set and then sub directories for each of the individual discs. I have named these sub directories CD1, CD2, CD3 etc. This works fine in Foobar2000. I have checked all of the metadata for the flac files and everything is as it should be. When I import a multiple disc directory into JRiver it groups all of the Track 1s together (Not necessarily in disc order) and then all of the Track 2s etc.

MC can use the disc number tags for displaying the tracks in the correct order. Unfortunately, if you tagged the disc numbers with foobar they will not work because MC uses a different tag name.

In any case, you can easily search for the "CD..." subfolders and quickly tag the disc numbers in MC.

CD 1

- paste this into the search box:  [Filename (path)]="CD1"
- select all files
- in Action Window > Tag type the number 1 in the Disc # field
  (if the disc number field is not present right-click the Tag window and
  select "Show All Tags" or "Also show... Disc #")

CD 2

- the same as above except that the search is  [Filename (path)]="CD2"

etc.
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JazzDoc

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Re: Saying hello and needing some help!
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 05:53:34 pm »

Thanks Alex B ... That sorted the problem with multiple disc sets.

I followed the instructions to get MC to work with WASAPI. It will play 16-Bit/44.1kHz files but not 24-Bit/192kHz files. I can play the hi res files with Asio4All.

I have read elsewhere that MC does not work in WASAPI with M2Tech Hiface
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newsposter

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Re: Saying hello and needing some help!
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 09:44:08 pm »

I have read elsewhere that MC does not work in WASAPI with M2Tech Hiface

Where?  When quoting external sources it's always a good idea to ID those sources......
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JazzDoc

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Re: Saying hello and needing some help!
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2010, 08:00:34 pm »

Sorry about that newsposter ... I read the thread and bookmarked it when I was using the laptop but I made the above post from my desktop. I was being lazy ... Apologies.

The link in question is:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Can-I-use-JRiver-M2Tech-Hiface

The fifth post down by Lew Burns describes my problem exactly!
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JimH

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Re: Saying hello and needing some help!
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2010, 08:05:37 pm »

It depends on the driver version.  Here's an old thread from Interact:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56403.msg389782#msg389782

If it works, please post on Computeraudiophile.
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JazzDoc

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 03:56:51 am »

Thanks for that JimH ... I was aware of the existence of a beta driver that was supposed to work but have never been able to find it. I will install it later today and report back.
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JazzDoc

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 06:35:56 am »

It doesn't work JimH but thanks for the link.

I get an error message saying that my hardware does not support HiRes formats (It will play 16-Bit/44.1kHz and 24-Bit/44.1kHz files). I am able to play all resolutions using WASAPI when I use Foobar2000 so the glitch must either be in the fact that JRiver Media Player doesn't like the driver or something needs to be fixed in the JRiver software.

JRiver or M2Tech really do need to fix this WASAPI problem though!
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JimH

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2010, 07:01:25 am »

Please double check that you have the right driver installed.  Confirm the version number of the driver you're using.

Also check the article on our wiki called "DAC Settings".

Please summarize in detail what works and what doesn't.  If WASAPI works at all with JRiver, then there is no problem talking to the driver.

If JRiver then doesn't work with all formats of files, either the driver doesn't support all formats, or a setting in JRiver is sending the wrong format.

Exactly what format isn't working?  "HiRes" doesn't tell me.  Source of file?  Example?

DSP settings?  Try none.
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Matt

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2010, 09:08:51 am »

M2Tech was nice enough to send JRiver a Hiface a few months back.

During our testing, we found what appears to be a bug with their WASAPI driver that makes our playback engine unhappy.  We've reported the technicals to M2Tech. 

It might be good if you also report to M2Tech that WASAPI + JRiver support is important to you.

Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

MikeAus

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 02:33:48 am »

During our testing, we found what appears to be a bug with their WASAPI driver that makes our playback engine unhappy.  We've reported the technicals to M2Tech. 
So does the HIFACE work with J River and WASAPI as yet - with the latest driver - 'out of the box' ?
Thanks.
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JazzDoc

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2010, 03:13:56 am »

So does the HIFACE work with J River and WASAPI as yet - with the latest driver - 'out of the box' ?
Thanks.

I spoke with the UK importer for M2Tech yesterday. He said that he would contact Marco about the problem and that a driver update was the likely solution.

So in answer to your question ... Hiface and JRiver Media Center will probably not work straight out of the box in WASAPI mode!
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JimH

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 10:58:21 am »

Here's what Marco of M2Tech just wrote us:

> as far as I know, the beta which went out before the last driver
> published on our website does the trick... We're changin our website
> to publish the beta instead of the last version.

For now, their 140 driver is known to work.  There is a link in BigMac's post here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56403.msg389782#msg389782
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JazzDoc

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2010, 09:22:34 am »

I think I may, with the help of Keith at Purite Audio and Marco at M2Tech, have resolved the issues with the Hiface and JRiver Media Center 15. The comments below are based on my own use of the products in my system which comprises:

Acer Laptop (Windows 7 x64) (JRiver Media Center 15: Full Version)
Samsung 1.5 TB USB External Hard Drive
M2Tech Hiface
Naim Audio DAC / Naim XPS Power Supply
Naim NAC52 Pre-Amplifier / Naim Audio Supercap Power Supply / Naim Audio NAP250 Power Amplifier
Naim SBL Speakers

Marco sent me the beta driver (1.03.140) and I installed it having previously removed the driver available from the M2Tech website (1.03.141). It didn't appear to make any difference. I was still getting error messages when I tried to play 24-Bit/96kHz FLAC files and 24-Bit/192kHz FLAC files.

I then started to work my way through the dCS Guide to Computer Audio and made sure that my installation of Windows 7 was correctly configured. I changed quite a few things in the Windows audio configuration! The setup procedure for Windows 7 can be found on Pages 26-28 of the guide. Having completed this, I reinstalled the 1.03.140 driver that Marco supplied and configured JRiver Media Center 15 to work in WASAPI mode. This process is described in Pages 34-37 on the guide.

16-Bit/44.1kHz FLAC files and 24-Bit/44.1kHz FLAC files would now play with the 'Open device for exclusive access' box checked (I had not managed to get sound output with this box checked before). I thought that everyone was OK until I tried playing 24-Bit/96kHz FLAC files and 24-Bit/192kHz FLAC files. The sound was breaking up badly. I managed to resolve this issue by returning to the DSP Studio settings and changing the Prebuffering setting from its default value of 6 seconds to 2 seconds.

Everything now seems to be working well. The only problem I have experienced is changing from one 24-Bit/192kHz album rip to another without first stopping playback. This could however, be due to the fact that I have a USB rather than a NAS drive.


If you need Marco's beta driver or the dCS Guide to Computer Audio, I have posted them in my Hotfile account. Links are as follows:

http://hotfile.com/dl/56760438/e9363ab/dCS_Guide_to_Computer_Audio.pdf.html

http://hotfile.com/dl/56760085/99006ff/win7vista103.zip.html



I hope this works for you if you are experiencing difficulties. I have to say that the sound of JRiver Media Center 15 in WASAPI mode is superb. To my ears, it is preferable to Foobar2000. In JRiver, the WASAPI mode sounds less 'hot' than ASIO and more detailed than kernel streaming. I also much prefer the GUI of JRiver Media Center to Foobar2000/DarkOne 2.1, but that is down to personal taste.

Finally ... Thanks to Keith at Purite Audio and Marco at M2Tech. They have both been so helpful in working with me to resolve the difficulties.
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dtc

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Re: M2Tech Hiface problem [solved]
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2010, 11:43:05 am »

I have been using a Hiface on MC 14 with WASAPI and need to update to MC at at some point, so I am happy you got this to work correctly on MC 15. The one problem I have is that the pause buttom does not work. Is that still true with MC 15?

Did you try using kernal streaming rather than WASAPI?
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