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[gappie]

i sometimes have to switch my volume leveling settings. mostly im listening to albums so i have it set to album based, which uses album gain. most of the time im to foul to set it to track based when playing radio. but when i have a party ill take the time.
after reading this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58815.0
i was wondering if it would not be an idea to have a third options there, lets say Smart Gain based.
the idea would be that it uses track based gain except when at least two tracks of an album are played, then it uses album gain. 
(actually.. maybe..it would even be smarter if it would use the avarage gain of those two  ? )

just a thought

 
gab

[Vocalpoint]

i sometimes have to switch my volume leveling settings. mostly im listening to albums so i have it set to album based, which uses album gain. most of the time im to foul to set it to track based when playing radio. but when i have a party ill take the time.
after reading this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58815.0
i was wondering if it would not be an idea to have a third options there, lets say Smart Gain based.
the idea would be that it uses track based gain except when at least two tracks of an album are played, then it uses album gain. 
(actually.. maybe..it would even be smarter if it would use the avarage gain of those two  ? )

just a thought

 
gab

I also listen to mostly albums - but have never used the Album Gain at all...I find the Track Gain does it all and I have noticed no ill effects to sitting through an entire album via "track" gain. To me - an album is just 10 or 12 "tracks anyway" - so I let it do it's thing via track gain. Then I can be certain I am covered if one of my smartlists grabs a track from any album...

[gappie]

I also listen to mostly albums - but have never used the Album Gain at all...I find the Track Gain does it all and I have noticed no ill effects to sitting through an entire album via "track" gain. To me - an album is just 10 or 12 "tracks anyway" - so I let it do it's thing via track gain. Then I can be certain I am covered if one of my smartlists grabs a track from any album...

good for you.   but i guess it depends on the music you listen to. i for instance dont like it when listening to a live record the public starts to clap louder on track change just because there is a small soft piece after it, knowing that the part was ment to be softer, even more so when a soft piece goes over into a louder one, where you can hear the volume drop. some albums are indeed 10 or 12 tracks anyway. but enough are not. i can only imagine the effect listening to bachs mathew passion with track based leveling would have. 100 something tracks that jump in replay gain range of 10 dB. psychedelic i guess.

by the way.. im not saying its better, just an extra option for those who would appreciate it..

 
gab

[ubernode54]

I'm sure I had read somewhere here that if you select Track Gain in the DSP settings for Volume Leveling that it will use the Track Gain values if you are shuffling between albums and automatically switch to the Album Gain values if you are playing the album in proper order.

[gappie]

I'm sure I had read somewhere here that if you select Track Gain in the DSP settings for Volume Leveling that it will use the Track Gain values if you are shuffling between albums and automatically switch to the Album Gain values if you are playing the album in proper order.

that of course would be great news. becuase then its only a bug..might you be able to find where you read it?
i just listened to the tracks showed in the attachment. actually its one track that has been splitted in several tracks for some reason. the music goes on though on track changes. to make clear the columns show
track name - artist - album - track # - album gain - track gain - the difference between both.
you can see the difference in track gain between the one playing (part 5 ) and the one before (part 4). the two tracks go over into each other the music does not stop. when using track based the you hear the volume adjustments jump in. on album based the song just goes on.

 
gab

[ubernode54]

I've looked a few times. Through my bookmarks and all. I cannot find it.

But you're right. The behaviour described is certainly desirable.

[sunfire7]

That would indeed be fantastic gappie, I hate when Im playing a gapless album (mostly DJ sets) and the volume changes because of track gain, I think the solution as you said, is the "smart gain" (haha nice name), wich will set to track gain when shuffle and album gain when found 2 tracks or more of the same album in a row

[Matt]

I'm sure I had read somewhere here that if you select Track Gain in the DSP settings for Volume Leveling that it will use the Track Gain values if you are shuffling between albums and automatically switch to the Album Gain values if you are playing the album in proper order.

I do not believe Media Center has a feature like this related to Replay Gain.

Perhaps you're remembering the 'Gapless sequential album track' option?

[Matt]

If you like Album Gain, which respects the mastering engineers choice to make certain tracks quiet, why not just always use Album Gain?

Most albums are mastered so that album gain and track gain are within a decibel or so of each other.  So adding an option that switches between the two depending on what's playing isn't going to make a large difference in most cases.

[Vocalpoint]

If you like Album Gain, which respects the mastering engineers choice to make certain tracks quiet, why not just always use Album Gain?

Most albums are mastered so that album gain and track gain are within a decibel or so of each other.  So adding an option that switches between the two depending on what's playing isn't going to make a large difference in most cases.

I just use track gain - and I listen to EVERYTHING from live comedy albums to death metal - and I have never had a "jarring" volume swing experience yet. I guess I need to get a clear cut example (hopefully that I can replicate here) to get a feeling for what Gappie is hearing....

[gappie]

Most albums are mastered so that album gain and track gain are within a decibel or so of each other.  So adding an option that switches between the two depending on what's playing isn't going to make a large difference in most cases.

i disagree with that. i just made some smartlists to check how that would be in my library. but leaving greates hits etc asside i have many albums with differences of more then 10dB between songs, this includes artists like pat metheny, living color, tom waits, phish, mars volta, marc ribot, little feet, lenny kravitz, captain beefheart... etc etc.

and because of that i sometimes need to switch between the two. so i was hoping for something that gives both.

 
gab

[Alex B]

If you like Album Gain, which respects the mastering engineers choice to make certain tracks quiet, why not just always use Album Gain?

This is my approach. I have Album Gain always enabled. When a mixed playlist contains tracks that are intended to be quieter than the loud tracks in the source albums they will all be equally quieter. Similarly the loud tracks from various albums are played equally louder. Though I don't like to play elevator music in the background. I.e. I either use a volume level that is loud enough to reveal also the subdued nuances or I don't play music at all.

[gappie]

This is my approach. I have Album Gain always enabled. When a mixed playlist contains tracks that are intended to be quieter than the loud tracks in the source albums they will all be equally quieter. Similarly the loud tracks from various albums are played equally louder. Though I don't like to play elevator music in the background. I.e. I either use a volume level that is loud enough to reveal also the subdued nuances or I don't play music at all.

it doesnt need to be elevator music. as a example sometimes i like to listen to old jazz recordings. most of the tracks come from collections.so i mostly like to use a smartlist. on the original collection the replay values hardly show a 'plan', and i need to adjust the volume often when using album gain (which sometimes is also true when i listen to the album as a whole).

 
gab

[MrC]

Here's a good example of track gains that are all over the place, making Track-based gain unusable for this situation.

[Vocalpoint]

Here's a good example of track gains that are all over the place, making Track-based gain unusable for this situation.

Tracks 1 and Track 4 look oddly out of place. 14db of difference and they are from the same album?

[MrC]

Yup, same album.  I just re-analyzed to test.  It doesn't make sense to me.

I can re-rip the album to see if there is a difference.  This album was ripped to flac ages ago.

[Vocalpoint]

Yup, same album.  I just re-analyzed to test.  It doesn't make sense to me.

I can re-rip the album to see if there is a difference.  This album was ripped to flac ages ago.

I just ripped a copy and you are right. Seems Track 1 and 4 (due to their makeup) really do not really have any "center" to analyze correctly (both being nothing more than an fx mashup). I am getting the same values.

However - in this case - if this album was in rotation - I would ensure that those two oddball slices would never get to the speakers.....hence - they wouldn't be ruining any replay gain vibe. But that's just me.

[ubernode54]

I do not believe Media Center has a feature like this related to Replay Gain.

Perhaps you're remembering the 'Gapless sequential album track' option?

I remember now what it was... Rockbox has that option; 'Track Gain on Shuffle'. That's basically your 'smart gain'.

[gappie]

was playing some radio today, had to get the remote several times.
see the attachment. look for the song called disengage. the difference with the song two tracks latter is far from subtle.

 
gab