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[mark_h]

Just noticed that after a conversion, all the tracks converted are showing up in the Recently Imported playlist... this never used to be the case?  Is this a bug, or is there now an option to disable this that I haven't found yet?

Help!

Cheers,

Mark

[Alex B]

If the converted files are imported they will show up there.

Did you intend to replace the original files and preserve the old Date Imported values? What do you have set in Conversion Options > Converter > Mode ?

[mark_h]

Conversion is for a handheld.  No intention of importing the conversions...  These files are written to the temporary conversion folder but are showing up in 'recently imported' view and are now included in the database.

Converter Mode: Replace Original file on disk and in library.

 that was never my selected option - has this been reset by a recent build?!

Also, this is happening during the sync handheld conversion - do the Converter options under Library Tools affect that operation or only the conversion options under the Sync Handheld options...?

Cheers,

Mark

[Alex B]

I couldn't reproduce the problem in quick test. I set the standard conversion to the "Replace original file on disk and in library" mode and synched a few lossless files with my virtual Handheld (it syncs a disk location). The Handheld conversion was set to MP3. The converted files were not imported to the library (edit: and the original files survived just fine).

Could your destination location be included in the Auto-Import folder list?

[Alex B]

It can also be the conversion cache. If you have it enabled the cached files will be stacked and show up as new library entries. The conversion cache settings have recently moved to Tools > Options > File Location > Conversion Cache...

Since I use the virtual Handheld as a repository for the converted files I don't have the global caching option enabled. It would not make sense to store the converted files twice.

[mark_h]

Auto-Import is off.  I manually import all my music (right click in file folder->import)

Double checking the auto-import folder list: empty

[mark_h]

I just started running a 'sync to handheld' (in this case a file location) and every converted track is showing up in Recently Imported ...

Conversion cache is a folder because, like you I want to keep a converted files cache  so I don't have to reconvert  files for other handhelds...

Interestingly it's not happening with all tracks...

[Alex B]

The conversion cache is separate from the Handheld location. Did you actually check the settings in Tools > Options > File Location > Conversion Cache... ? What is the disk location of the files in "Recently Imported"?

The defined Handheld location is my "cache". I maintain it manually by dragging and dropping files or playlists into the HH. I don't use the additional caching layer aka "conversion cache" that automatically stacks a copy of each converted & synced file with the original file and keeps the cached file hidden in standard views unless the stack is intentionally expanded.

[Alex B]

Here is more info: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Stacks

However, the wiki page is not up-to-date. The cache options have moved (as I already said) and in addition to HandHeld also Library Server will add the converted files to the cache if caching is enabled. I don't know if the DNLA server does the same.

EDIT

From the change log:

15.0.135 (10/18/2010)

9. Changed: Conversion cache options moved from the 'handheld options' page to the 'file location' options page and generalized for handheld transfers, library server, etc.
10. NEW: Conversions on Library Server now utilize the conversion cache system which uses a stack file if available, otherwise a stack file is created.

15.0.140 (10/26/2010)

9. Fixed: The DLNA server was not applying replay gain (when set to "always convert" and "volume leveling) if converting to MP3 WHEN the source file was also MP3 OR if there was a MP3 for that source file in a stack.

The latter quote might indicate that also the DNLA server uses the conversion cache feature.

[mark_h]

Did you actually check the settings in Tools > Options > File Location > Conversion Cache... ? What is the disk location of the files in "Recently Imported"?

I checked.  Recently imported files are in the same directory as the conversion cache...  All of my conversion filepaths point to the same location, including MC's TEMP directory.  That way I have one central repository for converted files that is available to the various conversion methods.

Whatever is going on has only started happening in the last couple of builds.  And as there is no consistency (some conversions are imported, some aren't) I have to assume it's a bug rather than a user option that I now have inadvertently incorrectly set...?

[Alex B]

I checked.  Recently imported files are in the same directory as the conversion cache...  All of my conversion filepaths point to the same location, including MC's TEMP directory.  That way I have one central repository for converted files that is available to the various conversion methods.

Hmm...  I am not sure if I have understood your configuration correctly, but the stacked files are part of the library and they are supposed show up in the Recently Imported playlist.

If you don't want to stack cached copies in addition to storing the files in your "Handheld" you must disable the conversion cache feature, i.e. set it to "No cache".

Or do you mean that you have set the Handheld and the Conversion cache to use exactly the same location? I have never tried that.

Whatever is going on has only started happening in the last couple of builds.

The behavior may have changed when the Handheld cache options were moved:

Code: [Select]

15.0.135 (10/18/2010)

9. Changed: Conversion cache options moved from the 'handheld options' page to the 'file location' options page
and generalized for handheld transfers, library server, etc.file is created.

And as there is no consistency (some conversions are imported, some aren't) I have to assume it's a bug rather than a user option that I now have inadvertently incorrectly set...?

This could indicate that some of the files have been stacked and imported earlier and thus they don't show up in Recently Imported. Also, if conversion is not needed (e.g. when MP3 is synced to MP3) MC does not create a stack.

[mark_h]

Stacks have always confused me  ?  The converted files to me are temporary - I do not want them in my library.  But I also do not want them deleted either, so that I don't have to reconvert the same files every time I sync my multiple handhelds.  I simply want a central repository of converted files that can be picked up by the sync process if they exist or converted and added to the repository if they don't.

Again, that was working fine until recently.

But it sounds like I must now specify NO CACHE to remove the stacking/additions to the library, but that then means I have to reconvert the files every time???

And still doesn't explain why only some files are getting added to the library...

[mark_h]

I see somebody has reported the hit and miss stacking in the release thread.

[Alex B]

Are you syncing a hard drive folder or the devices directly? If you are syncing devices you need to use the cache feature. As I said, the stacked files are normally hidden "behind" the original files. They only show up in the Recently Imported playlist, if you make a special search, and if you expand the stacks.

I sync a folder and just copy the files to my devices outside MC. I too don't delete the converted files so the repository grows a bit each time I decide to sync some new files.

[glynor]

The converted files to me are temporary - I do not want them in my library.  But I also do not want them deleted either, so that I don't have to reconvert the same files every time I sync my multiple handhelds.  I simply want a central repository of converted files that can be picked up by the sync process if they exist or converted and added to the repository if they don't.

You can't have it both ways.

If you want to use the Conversion Cache feature (you don't want to reconvert each time you sync your device), then the files cached have to be tracked in MC's database (the Library).  If you don't want them to be in the Library, then you'll have to reconvert each time you sync.  It is that simple.

The Stacking feature makes this palatable.  Stacking is VERY simple really.  Basically, if two files are Stacked, MC acts as if they are two versions of the same file (this is simplifying, but it works in this instance).  So long as that Stack is Collapsed (which just means that only the file on "top" of the stack is "visible" in the library) then the "lower" stacked files won't show up anywhere in any view.  Only the "top" copy shows up!  Generally you want to assign the best quality version of your file as the stack top (like the APE or FLAC version, for example).  Any tagging changes you apply to the file automatically apply to both.  They are, as I said, effectively considered to be ONE file.

So, if you use the Conversion Cache feature, those newly converted files will be imported into the library, but they'll be "stacked underneath" the original source files.  You'll never see them in the library except if you expand those stacks (with a few exceptions that Alex pointed out, they do show in the Recently Imported playlist for example).  But who cares?  This provides exactly the benefits you're looking for.

[mark_h]

You can't have it both ways.

Boooooooo 

So, if you use the Conversion Cache feature, those newly converted files will be imported into the library, but they'll be "stacked underneath" the original source files.  You'll never see them in the library except if you expand those stacks (with a few exceptions that Alex pointed out, they do show in the Recently Imported playlist for example).  But who cares?  This provides exactly the benefits you're looking for.

OK, it is true that I don't see the stacked items in the main library if the stack is collapsed.   I'm starting to get this.  The converted files are stack items, and are present in the database under the stack icons.

But does nobody else actually find it annoying that stacked items show up in recently imported then?  For me, recently imported is where I do my initial tagging, eg immediately after an import.  To now find it polluted by stack entries is an annoyance.

This behaviour is recent.....

Anyway, thanks guys, as always, for helping me out.

Mark

[mark_h]

They only show up in the Recently Imported playlist, if you make a special search, and if you expand the stacks.

This bit I don't get.  I'm simply looking at the recently imported playlist.  How do I "collapse" the stacks at this stage to make the converted files not show up??

If I add the stack icon column there is the "open" icon on the converted file.  Hovering over the icon say:

Stack Member.  Stack Top (name of track. 2 items in stack)

And yet I cannot, as I can elsewhere, click on the icon and expand/close the stack, ie even though it's a stack of 2 it's only displaying the 1 item.  Is this correct??

[glynor]

That's correct.  The Recently Imported playlist effectively does a "special" search, that shows all imports, even if they are members of a collapsed stack.  You could replicate it with a View if you wanted, but that seems to be the opposite of what you (and I, frankly) want.

This bit I don't get.  I'm simply looking at the recently imported playlist.  How do I "collapse" the stacks at this stage to make the converted files not show up??

I never actually use the "real" Recently Imported playlist.  I have an Imports View under each of my Top-Level Views (Audio, Images, Video, and Advanced/All-Media) which replicates this functionality (simply reverse chronological sorted by [Date Imported] and filtered to only show a particular [Media Type], but also has the benefit of being able to use Panes for filtering.  Conveniently, these views don't show new stack members, like any other view.

[mark_h]

Problem there is that I manually import all my files and upon completion MC immediately jumps to it's own recently imported display...  I can load my own view there or indeed, do the same as you and jump to my own imported view, but until a couple of builds ago there was no need as the stacked files never showed up in that view...

I wish there was a global option to turn off displaying stacked files.  Would solve a lot of issues...  I NEVER use stacks - yes, MC uses them for me, but I never need to now they are there.  They cause me issues that I don't want to have to solve...

[glynor]

Problem there is that I manually import all my files and upon completion MC immediately jumps to it's own recently imported display... 

Yes.  This annoys me since I never use that playlist.  I use Auto-Import though, so that doesn't happen to me very often.

[glynor]

I wish there was a global option to turn off displaying stacked files.  Would solve a lot of issues...  I NEVER use stacks - yes, MC uses them for me, but I never need to now they are there.

Hmmmm.... There really doesn't need to be that option. With the exception of the Recently Imported playlist (which is a "special" search), you already need to go out of your way to see them, so long as the stacks are Collapsed.  You have the ability to do a "special search" yourself if you want to see them, but you don't have to, and none of the default views work that way (again, except for the Recently Imported playlist).

What I'd like is a simple command to Collapse All Stacks and Expand All Stacks.  This is something I need every so often when I want to mess with my Conversion Cache files, so I need to see them in one of my Views.  So what I end up having to do is go to a view where all of the files are exposed, and then do Control-A and then Expand Stacks.  However, if the view has anything filtered at all, then it doesn't work right (some files get missed).  Most of my views filter things out, so it can be challenging to find a place that really shows EVERYTHING.

It makes sense that the Recently Imported playlist shows them by default.  After all, they are newly imported, and there is literally no other way for a novice user to find them and deal with them (should he or she need to) other than via this list.  It would actually be nice if this playlist was a "normal" smartlist, so that you could modify the search yourself.  As it is, it is obviously internally a Smartlist, but you can't access the search it uses to modify it.

[mark_h]

It makes sense that the Recently Imported playlist shows them by default.  After all, they are newly imported, and there is literally no other way for a novice user to find them and deal with them (should he or she need to) other than via this list.

I disagree.  I am far from a novice user and yet this has tripped me up.  I shouldn't be seeing stuff 'recently imported' that I haven't imported myself.  If the software wants to "import" stuff itself, fine, but don't pollute my user experience with it...  it causes confusion... "I didn't import those.  Why are they there?!".  A few posts on the forum later we understand what is causing it, but that's far from satisfactory.  I've also had to adjust some smartlists to stop them including these stack files.

 It would actually be nice if this playlist was a "normal" smartlist, so that you could modify the search yourself.  As it is, it is obviously internally a Smartlist, but you can't access the search it uses to modify it.

100% agree.  It used to be like this c.MC13, or at least the view was persistent so you could modify it and the changes would stick.  This behaviour was changed and, despite calls for a return to previous functionality, we seem to be stuck with the new unsatisfactory method where it reverts to the default view once the imported list is cleared.

[mark_h]

Deleted my handheld and recreated it.  Now none of the stack files are appearing in Recently Imported.  Yay.  Something wacky is going on here...?