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[ConcernedCitizen]

Hi all, I've just started researching how to make my PC (currently used as an out of the box Media Center) better for listening to music.  I do watch movies via Netflix every so often, but mostly I use it to listen to music.  I do not have, nor do I want surround sound. What I have is an Onkyo TX-8555 2.1 Stereo Receiver and Polk Audio TSi100 bookshelf speakers with a cheap Sony Sub. I am no audiophile as you can tell.  Half of my music library consists of 256kbps MP3's downloaded from our subscription to napster and the other half is CD's.  We do a lot of entertaining and usually just create a playlist to run the whole time with no attention required from myself or my wife.  The real problem is there's a lot of music on my cd's that we never listen to  because it's just so inconvenient. I really don't want to spend all the time an energy to rip the cd's to a lossless format and suck up the storage space just to listen to them through the line out of the pc sound card split 4 ways and connected to my amp via 1/8" to RCA.  My amp doesn't have digital input in any form.  My wife has noticed the sound quality sucks with the MP3's the way everything is connected now and wants me to upgrade to get better sound out of the computer. (She didn't notice how bad the sound really was until I replaced the old receiver and speakers). I understand MP3's are never going to sound great, but I want to make sure the PC to receiver is not the reason and to make the MP3's sound as good as those files are able to sound on my receiver and speakers.  I've never been a fan of Windows Media Center and have read great things about JRiver.  I am thinking about purchasing a NuForce uDAC-2 for $129.00, or the CE-MU 0404 USB 2.0 - 24-bit - 192 kHz for $175.00, or a HRT Music Streamer II, $149.00.  Basically I think I need  USB DAC > RCA out, and some good software to go with it like JRiver MC.  Any advice will be greatly appreciated

Thanks,

[nwboater]

Hi Concerned,

Are the ripped CD's you presently have in MP3 format? If so I would do a simple test:

1. Download the 30 day trial of JRiver Media Center, which I believe is the best player for SQ.

2. Take one or two of the CDs that you have ripped to MP3 and rerip it using MC15. Rip the files with FLAC. It's become the most popular lossless Codec and for good reason.

3. With your PCs existing soundcard to your receiver do some comparisons between the MP3s and the Flacs of the same music. Be sure the volume is at the same level for the comparo's.

If you notice a big difference then that is saying that at least a chunk of the problem is the MP3 encoding. You then have to decide if you are happy with what you are hearing with the FLAC rips or if you want to then go to a new DAC. If you are happy with the FLAC sound you could then rerip all your CDs and have the better quality. You will certainly want to do this if you invest in a good DAC.

I am not familar with the NuForce DAC but I own an 0404-USB. It is truly amazing for the price. Not sure how much you've researched it but there is a huge thread on Computer Audiophile and many threads on HeadFi Forum about it.

I'm also not familar with the HRT Streamer, but would be willing to wager that you will get better SQ and way better organizational abilities with MC15.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Rod

[ConcernedCitizen]

Thanks Rod,
99% of the MP3's I have are from our subscription to napster.  I subscribe to Napster and can stream tons of music over the net, and I get so many downloads a month. The MP3's downloaded are 256kbps. I should probably try JRiver first and see if a lot of the problem isn't just WMC. I am sure its not the entire problem, but you've give me a good place to start i.e. what's the difference in the formats from the PC to receiver now.  Unfortunately it would be a significant investment to replace the MP3's I have now as they were downloads from napster and not ripped (about 1200 songs). But the format is still where I should start. Also, I've read a lot about Kernal streaming and ASIO. Should that be another test with the on-board sound card, or should that wait on the dac?

Thanks,

[ConcernedCitizen]

Oh yeah,

And the HRT Streamer is a DAC from what I've seen on the web.  http://www.amazon.com/HRT-Music-Streamer-II-Resolution/dp/B0038O4UFQ

[nwboater]

Too bad on all your MP3s, but that is a big investment!

On a high quality playback system is where MC15s sound quality will shine through. I'd frankly be surprised if your present problem is the player. But you could still download the MC trial to find out. Then rip some of your CDs and compare that SQ to your MP3s. Might be interesting.

With as much music that you have I'll bet you will love MC, although it may have a bit of a learning curve in some areas. I have found this forum to be a big help in that regard.

I looked at the HRT on Amazon. Sure some very happy customers there! Do note that the 0404USB is also asynchronous and it does up to 192/24. More research might be in order if you are going to get a DAC.

It's unlikely that your onboard sound will do ASIO. I believe that the soundcard manufacturer has to provide drivers for it. When you get MC15 going you could try to use KS if it pops up as an option for your soundcard. I did use Asio for my 0404-USB. But it wont hurt anything, and it will take very little time to try any options that may be available.

Rod

[ConcernedCitizen]

Thanks again Rod,

I've got this week off, sort of, so I'll spend some time getting to know JR MC, ripping a few cd's and working on the sound system.  It's really basic, simple receiver and decent speakers hopefully I can get the MP3's to at least a liveable quality level.  I'll report back what works.

Thanks,

[DarkPenguin]

I'm just using a cheap Creative labs USB device.  For the $60 I paid for it it seems fine.  I'm not sure of the DAC quality as I run optical out but as you could probably find it in a store you could try it and return it if it sucked.  (This would be the "I'm not an audiophile" solution.)

2. Take one or two of the CDs that you have ripped to MP3 and rerip it using MC15. Rip the files with FLAC. It's become the most popular lossless Codec and for good reason.

What is the good reason?

I wonder if the HRT Cleveland Streamer II people think that people want something that horrific looking sitting in their living room...

[nwboater]

Thanks again Rod,

I've got this week off, sort of, so I'll spend some time getting to know JR MC, ripping a few cd's and working on the sound system.  It's really basic, simple receiver and decent speakers hopefully I can get the MP3's to at least a liveable quality level.  I'll report back what works.

Thanks,

Hope you have fun with it. Will be interesting to hear how it went.

Rod

[nwboater]

I'm just using a cheap Creative labs USB device.  For the $60 I paid for it it seems fine.  I'm not sure of the DAC quality as I run optical out but as you could probably find it in a store you could try it and return it if it sucked.  (This would be the "I'm not an audiophile" solution.)
What is the good reason? ......

Since the optical interface is digital the quality of the card is not nearly as important as when you are using the analog outs. The Digital to Analog Converter and other analog circuitry can make a huge difference.

FLAC is an open source Codec - not beholden to any company. The F stands for Free. It gives very good compression rates. An original WAV file can be converted to FLAC. It can then be converted back to WAV and be 'bit perfect' That's lossless! Now some audiophile purists claim they can hear the difference. I wont question what they hear, but I don't believe there is any scientific validity to an audible difference.

Rod

[DarkPenguin]

Since the optical interface is digital the quality of the card is not nearly as important as when you are using the analog outs. The Digital to Analog Converter and other analog circuitry can make a huge difference.

I'm wondering if there is much difference with the cheap DACs.  The key thing with that creative is to make sure all the creative labs enhancements are turned off.  Very curious to find out what the OP ends up buying.

FLAC is an open source Codec - not beholden to any company. The F stands for Free. It gives very good compression rates. An original WAV file can be converted to FLAC. It can then be converted back to WAV and be 'bit perfect' That's lossless! Now some audiophile purists claim they can hear the difference. I wont question what they hear, but I don't believe there is any scientific validity to an audible difference.

Rod

I've been ripping to APE for the same reason.

[ConcernedCitizen]

I spent some time today working with MC-15 and I'm pretty impressed with everything I saw.  I tried to see if there is any difference in SQ in my current configuration between media files. Well if there is one, it was negligible. I used MC-15 to rip a cd track to .wav and played it vs. 192kbps MP3.  The problem I'm having is the sound is just so weak and puny, with so much noise that it was difficult to tell. It was better, but there wasn't enough clarity with either to really hear the difference that should be there. By the end of this project I hope to hear something closer to my cd player than my iPod. I think I'm going to give the Nuforce uDAC2 a try. I'll let everyone know if it helps.

Thanks

[ConcernedCitizen]

Well, I have good news and bad news, but mostly good news.  I decided to go with the uDAC2 by NuForce. I got it on new year's eve day. Just got around to hooking it up, and WOW!!!!! What a huge difference. Really unbelievable! I even asked my wife to close her eyes and switched the same song from my CD player and MP3 using the uDAC2 and she actually preferred the computer to the CD player. So even our MP3's sounded better to my wife who'd really noticed the difference and preferred the CD player before the uDAC, actually preferred the MP3's afterward. Really cool stuff.

Now the bad. Two fairly minor things. I don't know why I get terrible clicks, or pops, when playing music through MC and set it to wasapi. Any suggestions?

The other is just my ignorance with decent equipment. I have three other locations in the house that I want to send the music to. We like to entertain and have the same music playing in different parts of the house simultaneously. Any suggestions for this one as well?

Thanks

[MrMoto]

I had the same problem also at first: The popping/cracking sounds. It was fixed by uninstalling some crap software that was running in the background. Software that was pre-installed on my laptop. There was some "Creative" software and other sound card stuff. I uninstalled all of it and the problem was gone. I suspect it was not the "Creative" software but am not sure.

Try to see if you have sound card related software runing in the background and get rid of it. It should fix your bug.

I use a HRT Streamer+ and have a Wyred4sound DAC-2 on order. My HRT will be for sale at half price soon if anyone is interested. It's very good value for the price.

[DarkPenguin]

I ordered the HRT Streamer II.  Reviews are good.  Should be here tomorrow.  (Hopefully before the -16F hits.  Won't open the door to accept a package at those temps.)

I looked at the NuForce product but this http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/505523/first-impressions-new-nuforce-udac-2-with-24-96-usb-dac-amp-with-line-out-and-s-pdif-out/30#post_6835141 made me question every positive review.  That is too bad as I would have liked the option to use it as a head phone amp...

[DarkPenguin]

I ordered the HRT Streamer II.  Reviews are good.  Should be here tomorrow.  (Hopefully before the -16F hits.  Won't open the door to accept a package at those temps.)

Got it.  Love it.