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[jmone]

Hi, Just a quick q if there is any more tweaking going on with madVR or is it pretty well done (and do you want logs at this stage when stuff hangs)?  The reason I ask:
1) MC locks up hard if you do anything that brings up a UAC diag box when madVR is rendering
2) I'm seeing some general instability (MC hangs, LS clients can't see the LS till the LS is resarted) that could be madVR related but I can not put my finger on it.

Thanks again for the work on this,
Nathan

[rpalmer68]

I'm also seeing stability issues with MC when using madVR, switch back to EVR and MC16 is as stable as MC15.

Is madshi in the Beta team?  As it's a bit hard to discuss anythng madVR related in the MC15 board until MC15 acutally supports it.

Richard

[jmone]

Forgot:
3) "Crop Edges" = green line at the bottom of the pic (ATI HW)

Example of "stability issue", just had a movie play for 45mins to see how it would go (all fine) but when I pressed STOP the screen just went Black.  It was like a blank playing now windows was there as I could minimise/detach it then "X" to close it and MC16 was fine underneath.

[raym]

Forgot:
3) "Crop Edges" = green line at the bottom of the pic (ATI HW)

Have you tried boosting the amount of cropping MC employs for video - try 2 or 3%. This feature was added to MC 15 about a month back and solved all my white/green line artefact problems.

[jmone]

Have you tried boosting the amount of cropping MC employs for video - try 2 or 3%. This feature was added to MC 15 about a month back and solved all my white/green line artefact problems.

Thanks - I've only tested quickly on one PC with one media type but very interesting results (and it is good the % is selectable), as:
1.00%: Green Line Bottom and Right
1.25%: Green Line Bottom and Right
1.50%: No Lines 
1.75%: No Lines 
2.00%: Green Line Bottom (** Default **)
2.25%: No Lines 
2.50%: No Lines 
2.75%: Green Line Bottom and Right
3.00%: Green Line Bottom and Right

[jmone]

I just tried different a different video formats and it looks that there is no one crop edges settings that works with all Resolutions, eg at 1.75%
* 640x336 = Big Green Line Bottom and Right
* 720x576 = No Green Line
* 1280x720 = No Green Line
* 1440x1080 = Green Line Right
* 1920x1080 = Green Line Right

PS - you can see the content behind the green lines, it is like it is an overlay.

[madshi]

I've just tried 16.0.8 and on a quick check it seems to work quite nicely for me. Couldn't find any obvious issues.

Not sure about the problems mentioned in this thread. Could be MC issues or madVR issues, can't say for sure. If you have some way to reliably reproduce the problems, it would be helpful if you could write down a step-by-step way to reproduce each problem. FWIW, my dev machine is still XPSP3, so can't test UAC problems too easily myself right now. madVR logs might be helpful, but please try to keep them as small as possible, and add a detailed description to each log, what you did, what problem occured at what time during playback.

[jmone]

madshi - welcome to the Beta Team!  I must say it is looking great so far and thank you for the work to date.  It is late here in Oz so I'll post some logs and more detail tommorow.

[jmone]

madshi - Newbie Q but how do you create logs from madVR?

[madshi]

(1) rename "madVR.ax" to e.g. "madVR [released].ax"
(2) rename "madVR [debug].ax" to "madVR.ax"
(3) start MC and reproduce the behaviour
(4) stop MC as quickly as possible
(5) zip up the file "madVR - log.txt", which you will find on your desktop

If you fail to reproduce the problem, please stop MC and delete the log file, then try again. That helps keeping the log size smaller.

[raym]

Nathan, in my experience, the dodgy GREEN lines are due to specific ATI Catalyst settings. From memory, the de-noise and / or colour settings. Maybe check to make sure all that junk is switched off.

The persistent problem I had which was thankfully resolved with MCs configurable crop setting was WHITE line corruption. 

[rpalmer68]

MY issues have been;

1) Using madVR .36 starting live TV playback has issues with scaling for me, the picture can be correct, VERY large or very small and up in the top left corner.  Using the version supplied by madshi in the MC15 thread seems to resolve that issue. Is this what should be expected?

2) General instability of MC16.  I'll get MC just freezing when using it along with madVR.  Maybe when seeking shortly after starting playback, or changing channels. Or it moight just freeze/crash after I play one video, stop playback  and then try to start playback of another.  At this stage all my testing is just on jtv files or live TV.  Switching back to ERV and I haven't had any freezes/crashes.

I have also noticed that every time I seek and madVR switches from exclusive to winowed I get a flash of whatever the last windowed frame was prior to switching to exclusive.  Is there a way of stopping this?


I can generate some logs over the next couple of days hopefully, but madshi is there a logging version of the madVR.ax you posted up on the forums here?

Cheers
Richard

[jmone]

madshi / Yaobing?

Here is the first set of logs zipped together (an MC log and a madVR log)as it is the easiest to produce and 100% repeatable.  This one is for when MC/madVR hangs when a UAC box appears (it does not hang with a MC/EVR combo).

Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

Second set of logs - Green Line.  This shows the toggling Crop edges.  See pic below (note the CCC setting as suggested by raym are off).  This only happens with MC/madVR (ok with MC/EVR) and the green lines can appear at the bottom and/or RHS depending of the original resolution of the clip being played and the % cropping being done (see posts above).

[jmone]

1) Using madVR .36 starting live TV playback has issues with scaling for me, the picture can be correct, VERY large or very small and up in the top left corner.  Using the version supplied by madshi in the MC15 thread seems to resolve that issue. Is this what should be expected?

FYI - I've never seen a scaling issue on either of my pcs

[jmone]

So the other issues I've seen are:
* General Instability:  I'll try to grabs logs when I get something to report but this one will be hit and miss and I'm sorry for the vague unhelpfullness of the this one!  It is not too bad is would be OK if I was around but adds just enough issues to confound the Wife/Kids when something locks up.
* Can't Start Exclusive Mode:  I should be able to grab logs of this at some point.  Once madVR fails to start Exclusive Mode it was then always fail to start it on following media.  A reboot fixes this.
* On a dual display, with madVR goes into Exclusive Mode on one screen MS Internet Explorer gets "locked" (you can't type in boxes like this, links don't activate etc) yet other apps like Notepad are unaffected.

I must say most of these "issues" are really minor.  The big one is the stability factor (which will be the hardest to track down) as WAF is #1 for me.

Thanks
Nathan

[rpalmer68]

FYI - I've never seen a scaling issue on either of my pcs

Hmm,

OK here is a log using .36 where I get the issue.  http://www.thepalmers.com.au/temp_txfr/madVR - log_R1.zip

I start and then stop live TV playback on the same channel 3 times.

The 1st time scaling is correct. the 2nd I get a picture 1/4 of my screen size in the top left corner, the 3rd is OK again.

Richard

[rpalmer68]

Doing some more testing I got MC to freeze.  I did the same as the above post, but I enabled the switchig to exclusive mode (I'd disabled this for testing earlier).

So I started playback and stopped it a few times, the 2nd time I got a small imaage, the 3rd the image was OK but when I moved the mouse (which brings up the MC OSD positon bar) everything froze.

madVR and MC logs enclosed, sorry the madVR log is BIG!

http://www.thepalmers.com.au/temp_txfr/RP-Log2.zip


Richard

[rpalmer68]

One more update.

Went back to trying madVR posted in the MC15 forum, this too is giving me scaling issues. 

I thought this one was OK, but I just got a 1/4 sized image so I guess it's not OK either.


Richad

[Yaobing]

madShi,

A big thank you to you for helping getting this to work.

I see the green line at the edges.  I do not know what the cause may be. 

Crop Edges option is meant to remove vision noises that exist at the edges of video.  Basically it removes the edges by specifying a smaller source rectangle by calling IBasicVideo::SetSourcePosition(). 

The option does not help with the green line problem reported here.  It appears that the green lines are not visual noises that exist in the video itself.  Rather they seem to be artifacts of rendering.  When play a particular video clip, I do not get green lines when the option is off, but get a green line at the right edge, or bottom edge, depending on how much cropping is used (2% or 3%).

Any ideas?

Yaobing

[jmone]

In doing some testing on cnbc's issues, I found a bug using "Playback Info" to change refresh rates when madVR is the renderer:
EVR: Start Playback --> MC changes display based on Playback Info --> file plays --> when playback finishes MC changes display back to the original settings 
madVR: Start Playback --> MC changes display based on Playback Info --> file plays but MC changes display back to the original settings immediately --> when playback finishes nothing happens as it is already back to the original settings

It gets a bit more interesting if Reclock is also running and doing display rate changes:

madVR & Reclock: Start Playback --> MC changes display based on Playback Info --> file plays but MC changes display back to the original settings immediately then Reclock reads the frame rate and changes it back to suit --> when playback finishes Reclock changes display back to the original settings 

Anyway it seems that when using madVR, MC is thinking that file playback ends immediately so changes the refresh rate back.  I'm sure all the unnecessary refresh rate changes is not great!
 

[madshi]

@Yaobing, this might very well be a bug in madVR. I'll double check my "IBasicVideo::SetSourcePosition()" handling. Might take a couple of days, though.

[jmone]

@Yaobing, this might very well be a bug in madVR. I'll double check my "IBasicVideo::SetSourcePosition()" handling. Might take a couple of days, though.

madshi/Yaobing, I'm note sure if you have progressed with this at all but as now MC16 has added the ability to "Adjust audio rate to maintain video sync" we can use the JR Audio Renderer instead of Reclock but then we lose the alternative method of changing display rates till this bug is fixed.
Thanks
Nathan

[glynor]

jmone or madshi... I'm sure I could look and dig through mountains of threads over at AVS, but can one of you post a link to somewhere that explains why I might want to use madVR rather than EVR?

[Mike Noe]

jmone or madshi... I'm sure I could look and dig through mountains of threads over at AVS, but can one of you post a link to somewhere that explains why I might want to use madVR rather than EVR?

First couple of posts at madshi's Doom9 thread give most of the story.

[glynor]

Awesome.  Thanks.

EDIT: Okay.  This makes sense.

[rpalmer68]

Is it just me or are others seeing stability issues using madVR with MC16?

I'm getting regular hangs, for example I was watching a TV recording (jtv) and paused playback, then I skipped forward a couple of times pressed play and tried to skip forward again, MC totally hung.

The other issue I have is that when I pause or skip and madVR switches from exclusive to windowed mode I get a few frames of whatever was left in the "windowed buffer" previously thus making for an odd visual experience every time I pause/skip.

I'm running win7 x64, 11.1 ati drivers on a HD5670 GPU.

Anybody else seeing either of these issues, or am I just "lucky"??

Cheers
Richard
 

[madshi]

@Richard.

if you can reproduce those hangs, it might help if you could create, zip and upload a madVR debug log for me to look at. If it's a bug in madVR, the log might help me figuring out where the hang comes from. However, if the whole MC hangs, I'm not sure if that can be the fault of madVR, since MC runs madVR in its own thread, so MC's GUI should stay active, even if madVR itself hangs. @Yaobing, what is your opinion on this?

The problem with the "old frames from the windowed buffer" is a known problem, but I'm pretty sure it's not a bug in madVR, but rather caused by the Windows GUI ("Aero"). I'm not sure if I can do anything about it, I kinda doubt it. You could try disabling Aero/Desktop Composition, maybe that fixes the problem. Or you could disable the exclusive mode, if windowed mode works well enough on its own. Or you could try to avoid switching between windowed <-> exclusive mode, if you can.

[rpalmer68]

@Richard.

if you can reproduce those hangs, it might help if you could create, zip and upload a madVR debug log for me to look at. If it's a bug in madVR, the log might help me figuring out where the hang comes from. However, if the whole MC hangs, I'm not sure if that can be the fault of madVR, since MC runs madVR in its own thread, so MC's GUI should stay active, even if madVR itself hangs. @Yaobing, what is your opinion on this?

The problem with the "old frames from the windowed buffer" is a known problem, but I'm pretty sure it's not a bug in madVR, but rather caused by the Windows GUI ("Aero"). I'm not sure if I can do anything about it, I kinda doubt it. You could try disabling Aero/Desktop Composition, maybe that fixes the problem. Or you could disable the exclusive mode, if windowed mode works well enough on its own. Or you could try to avoid switching between windowed <-> exclusive mode, if you can.

Thanks madshi,

I have posted a log in an earlier post in this thread where MC has hung, along with the scaling issue I was seeing with live TV playback. I didn't see the scaling issue today so I'm hoping that fixed itself with my recent ATI update, but I was mainly testing with recordings so it may still be there.... I can generate more logs with hangs if you need  them?

I already have aero disabled on my system and exclusive seems to produce better results I think so would like to use it if I can. How do I avoid switching? Is it a setting in madVR or do you mean avoid it by just not seeking/bringing up the MC OSD etc? 

Thanks
Richard

[madshi]

I haven't had time to do any work on madVR in the last 2-4 weeks or something like that. So I haven't checked out the logs yet, either. One log for every problem would be helpful. If you've already posted a log about the hang earlier, then that should probably be good enough.

With avoiding exclusive mode I meant that you could try avoiding MC to have to draw any GUI stuff by avoiding to bring up the OSD etc. Of course that's not nice, but that's the price of exclusive mode: If you want it, you can't have normal GUI stuff. Does MC support exclusive mode for other renderers, btw? If so, does the normal MC GUI work there?

So it seems Aero is not at fault for displaying the "old" frames. Then it must be the new window drawing technique in Vista (and higher). Because in XP the problem does not exist.

[jmone]

Summary of current issues that I see between madVR and MC are:
- Green Line when cropping enabled
- Refresh Rate changes are reversed to the default immediately and not at the end of playback
- Stability (though it is better for me recently)

Thanks
Nathan

[rpalmer68]

I think I have finally got to the bottom ofthe stability issue I was getting.

After a visit to Nathan (jmone) to actually see his system working correctly (which is almost identical to mine in terms of OS, GPU and drivers) the only real diffeence was the output settings in FFDShow Video.

ffdsow.jpg are my original settings and ffdshow2.jpg are the working settings.

Wth these I can skip, change channes etc without MC hanging and without odd scaling issues.... well so far anyway......

So in case anybody else is having madVR stability issues in the furute, hopfully you'll find this and it may help.

Richard

[madshi]

@Richard, I've no idea why ffdshow even allows these options to be disabled. Makes zero sense to me. Your original settings are very bad, they make ffdshow behave in a very bad way and I honestly think that these settings should be removed from ffdshow and forced on. But I don't think we've any chance to get this to happen. The ffdshow people seem to love having every funny thing customizable, even if it makes near zero sense. FWIW, every other good decoder behaves like ffdshow behaves with these options turned on.

[rpalmer68]

@Richard, I've no idea why ffdshow even allows these options to be disabled. Makes zero sense to me. Your original settings are very bad, they make ffdshow behave in a very bad way and I honestly think that these settings should be removed from ffdshow and forced on. But I don't think we've any chance to get this to happen. The ffdshow people seem to love having every funny thing customizable, even if it makes near zero sense. FWIW, every other good decoder behaves like ffdshow behaves with these options turned on.

I just had them at default as I had no idea what they did!  Either that or I copied jmone's settings as he sent me his originally, in which case he's a bad boy too!

Are thre any other settings in FFDShow that we should make sure are set a certain way for the best results in madVR?

Cheers
Richard

[madshi]

No other options needed, I think. Of course you want to disable any kind of processing that isn't absolutely needed.

[jmone]

I just had them at default as I had no idea what they did!  Either that or I copied jmone's settings as he sent me his originally, in which case he's a bad boy too!

Are thre any other settings in FFDShow that we should make sure are set a certain way for the best results in madVR?

Cheers
Richard

Don't listen to Richard ...he Lies...all Aussies Lie...(see I just did it ) - he came over this arvo, copied my settings then it WORKED and now he complains!  

Seriously madshi - thanks for all of this...

[jmone]

No other options needed, I think. Of course you want to disable any kind of processing that isn't absolutely needed.

Mmmm the only other processing that I use in FFDSHOW is deinterlacing (YADIF with double frame rate seems to work well) and subtitles.....

[madshi]

Well, deinterlacing and subtitles are not supported by madVR yet, so they fall under "necessary processing".

[rpalmer68]

I take it back, although more stabe than before I'm still getting MC hanging when changing live TV channels sometimes.

Now I continue to get sound but the picture jumps to the top left 1/4 of the screen and MC "stops responding".

I'll try to find a pattern (It may only be when switching between certain channels) and generate some logs today and post them here.

Cheers
Richard

EDIT:  
A new update (old comments removed)....

I think I have found the solution now (I hope).  For some reason MPEG1 and MPEG2 decoding in FFDShow was set to libmpeg2, I changed these back to the default of libavcodec and channel changing seems to be working OK now.

I'll continue to test and will report back if there is still a problem.

Richard
 

[mojave]

I recently started using madVR. I have ripped my Blu-rays to MKV, but have not recoded the video. On some movies madVR is used and on others it uses Video Renderer. First, do I need to change something to allow all of my MKV's to use madVR? Is it an ffdshow setting that is wrong or VC-1 vs H.264? Second, if a file can't use madVR, I would like my default to be Haali Video Renderer. Maybe there should be an option for secondary renderer.

[Alex B]

@Richard, I've no idea why ffdshow even allows these options to be disabled. Makes zero sense to me. Your original settings are very bad, they make ffdshow behave in a very bad way and I honestly think that these settings should be removed from ffdshow and forced on. But I don't think we've any chance to get this to happen. The ffdshow people seem to love having every funny thing customizable, even if it makes near zero sense. FWIW, every other good decoder behaves like ffdshow behaves with these options turned on.

Actually, the default, grayed/middle state is not "disabled". It is more like an intellectual mode that first tries to use the better options (assuming the settings work as described). See the tooltips in the attached screenshots.

[Mike Noe]

I recently started using madVR. I have ripped my Blu-rays to MKV, but have not recoded the video. On some movies madVR is used and on others it uses Video Renderer. First, do I need to change something to allow all of my MKV's to use madVR? Is it an ffdshow setting that is wrong or VC-1 vs H.264? Second, if a file can't use madVR, I would like my default to be Haali Video Renderer. Maybe there should be an option for secondary renderer.

It's probably the decoder settings in FFdshow.  In the Codec settings, make VC1 "WMV9" (this will give you multi-threaded decoding, libavcoded is single threaded in VC1) and for h.264/AVC, select FFMPEG-MT.  madVR requires YV12 input, so make sure your Output is set to YV12 (sounds like it probably already is).

[mojave]

It's probably the decoder settings in FFdshow.  In the Codec settings, make VC1 "WMV9" (this will give you multi-threaded decoding, libavcoded is single threaded in VC1) and for h.264/AVC, select FFMPEG-MT.  madVR requires YV12 input, so make sure your Output is set to YV12 (sounds like it probably already is).

My Output is set to YV12 and I changed my codec settings to match your suggestion. I verified during playback that ffdshow is the video decoder. However, the same MKV's still won't use madVR. The problem is not codec dependent. The Blind Side is VC-1, but won't use madVR. Public Enemies is also VC-1, but it will use madVR. I also tried some AVC encodings and some work and some don't. Any other suggestions?

[Mike Noe]

Do you have any other FFDshow filters enabled?

On the FFDshow Output tab, uncheck all formats except YV12 (if you haven't tried that already).  See what happens, seems weird.

[mojave]

I have no other ffdshow filters turned on. I had already tried with just YV12 selected but I did it again (I also usually have YUY2 selected under Packed YUV). Still the same problem. I also clicked on Info & CPU in ffdshow. Both Blind Side and Public Enemies are shown as VC-1, YV12, and being decoded by WMV9. However, Blind Side refuses to use madVR. Blind Side does have an aspect ratio of 1.78:1, but I don't think that would make any difference.

I am using 3dlut in madVR and SoftCubic for all the scaling options. The rest of my madVR settings are the default ones.

[mojave]

I just switched to using the lavf source filter and now all MKV's are using madVR! Now I need to figure out how to use it with DVD's. I am using ffdshow video/audio decoders for DVD, but I can't use madVR or Haali.

[jmone]

I don't think you can, as from what I understand (happy to be corrected), you will use the MS Navigation Filter and it insists on EVR.  I don't know of any other "freeware" DVD Navigation Filters so the end result is no madVR from a DVD.

[Mike Noe]

I don't think you can, as from what I understand (happy to be corrected), you will use the MS Navigation Filter and it insists on EVR.  I don't know of any other "freeware" DVD Navigation Filters so the end result is no madVR from a DVD.

In case you guys don't know, you can use madVR with DVDs if you don't go through the DVD menus, but just go to the IFOs or VOBs directly....

@mojave:
I'm not sure what to make of that precisely re: switching to LAVF splitter, there must be something in the mediatype flags coming forward from the splitters that is affecting renderer pin connection.  While LAVF is somewhat reliable with MC16, I'm having occasional issues with multi-zone video playback where the movie plays (or at least you can hear audio), but the MC display just says "Opening...........".

[mojave]

I just tried both and all I get from MC is "Waiting." The DVD never opens. I am using Windows 7 32 bit.

[jmone]

In case you guys don't know, you can use madVR with DVDs if you don't go through the DVD menus, but just go to the IFOs or VOBs directly....

Yup, it is then just standard file playback, no probs there (FYI I break many of the DVD conent up into individual files per TV Eps, or Video Music Track)