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[fredhammersmith]

Hi...
A question for the knowledgeable on the important subject of volume control.

I hooked up a very nice pro DAC, the Metric Halo ULN-2, to my PC (http://www.mhsecure.com/v5mm/ULN2_2dExpanded.html).

Since I do not own a preamp right now, I hooked up my amp (AtmaSphere S30) to the monitor outputs of the ULN-2, because of the presence of an attenuator.

I've been advised by the Metric Halo people to try using the pot between 1/3 and full volume, to avoid the usual problems of pot at low volumes.

But if I want to use kernel streaming or asio with Media Center, I am losing the software volume control. If I use the "Volume Leveling" feature from DSP Studio, I have to make an adjustment of - 6 dB, in addition to the ReplayGain already calculated.

Am I at risk of losing significant bits of info by lowering the output that much?

Should I upsample to 24-bits prior to the volume leveling?

Does my concerns make sense? 
 

[Matt]

You might find these two threads interesting:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=60113.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=61685.0

The short answer is that you should always output the highest bitdepth supported by your hardware.  If you use ASIO, this happens automatically.

Secondly, you can use Media Center's internal volume mode if you have no hardware volume.  It's the highest quality volume possible.

[pcstockton]

Just get a proper preamp.

You know this to be true.

-Patrick

[Scolex]

IMO you should only use a dedicated analog pre-amp when it is an absolute requirement.
Manipulating volume levels in the digital domain is the best solution, 1s and 0s are impervious to noise and signal loss.
Why add another link in the chain if you don't need it.

[pcstockton]

1s and 0s are impervious to noise and signal loss.
Why add another link in the chain if you don't need it.

Not that I agree with your "loss/noise" statement, but regardless.... What do digital signals have to do with what comes out of the DAC?  The DAC outputs an analog signal which, if not presented correctly to the amplifier will sound less than ideal.

Especially if the amplifier uses an unregulated output.

With Naim kit, for example, not using a preamp would be unsavory.

Lastly, their analog volume pots destroy any digital volume attenuation....

I suppose it all matter what level you are on.  And most importantly, if you plan on using any other line level sources than the DAC.

-Patrick

[fredhammersmith]

It is an old debate. Digital volume control? Analogue?
The Metric Halo ULN-2 gives me all the input lines I need.
And it has a pot on the monitor output. So the functionality is there.
Can I do better than this? Probably.
Too bad I can't have digital volume control on kernel streaming or asio. That would make testing the digital volume much easier.

[JimH]

In MC options for playback, try "Internal" volume.

[fredhammersmith]

In MC options for playback, try "Internal" volume.

Sorry, I just don't see it. Maybe my coffee is not stong enough this morning.

Player / Options ?

[DarkPenguin]

Click the little speaker by the volume control.

[fredhammersmith]

Click the little speaker by the volume control.

Holy s...
Thks guys!

[JimH]

It's also under the Player menu / Volume.

[pcstockton]

Fredhammersmith,

Oh I have no doubt you have great playback.  I wasn't trying to imply otherwise.
I suppose I was only trying to say it isn't as simple as "preamps are completely unnecessary".

Yes it can work, and in some systems it works very well.  In most cases though the DAC does have a preamp section, e.g. Benchmark USB/Pre DAC.  It just isn't external.  Others that include a basic headphone preamp will have a volume pot of some kind or another.  This will usually allow for both variable output directly to an amp.

Although in most "high end" systems you will see a dedicated preamp, maybe with an external power supply.  Within a given manufacturers range, the benefit of a "Separates" arrangement over an integrated amp is always easily apparent. 

As I think most would agree, it never hurts to dedicate something to one task and ask it to do it very well.

In my kit, going straight from my Naim DAC, which has no volume control, into my Naim amp would possibly damage things.  Given Naim's grounding/earthing arrangement (unique), DIN cables and external power supplies, it wouldn't give me the best possible sound.

Anyway............ its all about the music.