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[tunetyme]

I was given a copy of a rare vinyl LP ripped to wavepack (wv).  It plays in MC 16 at a very high volume.  I’ve tried to convert this to flac and it failed in both MC Convert as well as media editor.  Any suggestions on how I can convert these files?

Tunetyme

[bob]

Hmmm, just tried that wv to flac conversion and it worked for me. What type of wavepack file is it? (sample rate, channels, bitrate).  Does it have the extra "correction" file (.wvc)?

[Alex B]

Regarding the exact format, the format window in Action Window > Tag > Format... may be able to tell some details. You can also try the Mediainfo tool: http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en .

Also, what do you mean by "very high volume"? Is it just louder than usual, but otherwise clean, or is it heavily clipped and distorted?

[tunetyme]

The info on the file is as follows:
2 channels
Sample rate 192000
bit rate ranges from 5534 to 5743
bit depth no info

It does play but I have to turn down the sound to 1% and even then it is loud, distorted and heavy clipping.

I will be happy to send you one of the files if you would like me too.

Tunetyme

[Alex B]

Maybe the source wave files were in the 32-bit float format. There are a few different ways to store 32-bit float data in a wave file. Apparently MC is compatible with the more common "32-bit float type 3"  format (the default in many pro audio editors, e.g. in Adobe Audition), but not with one or more other float formats. I tried "32-bit float type 1" and it behaved exactly like you described. The Wavpack format can store 32-bit float content and possibly has nothing to do with the problem. MC can play "32-bit float type 3" Wavpack files without problems.

32-bit float in general is not compatible with FLAC. The FLAC encoder supports only integer bit depths up to 24-bit.

[AndrewFG]

32-bit float in general is not compatible with FLAC. The FLAC encoder supports only integer bit depths up to 24-bit.

Actually I think the flac encoder DOES support 32-bit -- however it supports 32-bit INTEGERS rather than 32-bit Floats...

[bob]

Maybe the source wave files were in the 32-bit float format. There are a few different ways to store 32-bit float data in a wave file. Apparently MC is compatible with the more common "32-bit float type 3"  format (the default in many pro audio editors, e.g. in Adobe Audition), but not with one or more other float formats. I tried "32-bit float type 1" and it behaved exactly like you described. The Wavpack format can store 32-bit float content and possibly has nothing to do with the problem. MC can play "32-bit float type 3" Wavpack files without problems.

32-bit float in general is not compatible with FLAC. The FLAC encoder supports only integer bit depths up to 24-bit.

Where did you get a source file like that Alex? I played all of the samples in the wavpack test suite successfully (after adding the 32 bit int format).

[bob]

Actually I think the flac encoder DOES support 32-bit -- however it supports 32-bit INTEGERS rather than 32-bit Floats...

It looks like our encoder goes up to 24.

[Alex B]

Where did you get a source file like that Alex?

I created the files with Adobe Audition. I'll prepare some samples for you...

Regarding 32-bit FLAC here is a Hydrogen Audio thread that may be interesting: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=83520

[bob]

I created the files with Adobe Audition. I'll prepare some samples for you...

Regarding 32-bit FLAC here is a Hydrogen Audio thread that may be interesting: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=83520

Thanks, that discussion was really interesting and illuminating...

[tunetyme]

I think that defines the problem.  The next question is how do I convert from 32 bit to 24 or back to a WAV format where I can convert it to 24 bit?  Any Ideas?

[bob]

I think that defines the problem.  The next question is how do I convert from 32 bit to 24 or back to a WAV format where I can convert it to 24 bit?  Any Ideas?

If MC can't play the file without distortion, it's not going to be able to re-encode it.

The only other approach I can think of would be the external encoder option with the "use source file as-is" option checked. The thing is you'd need some external program that was capable of reading and re-encoding the files and if you had that with a GUI it'd likely be easier to just use it for conversion instead of command-lining something into the external encoder option.

[Alex B]

Here are some 192/32 samples:

http://cid-138ca589c542aeee.office.live.com/browse.aspx/MC%20stuff/32bit%5E_samples

- Four 192 kHz/32-bit wav files in one rar package (41 MB) and two 192 kHz, 32-bit wavpack files in another rar package (17 MB). (MS Skydrive has a limit of 50 MB / file.)

The audio content is identical in all sample files. I saved them with Adobe Audition v.3.
Wave: three different float formats and one 32-bit integer format
WavPack: Two float formats, type 1 and type 3

I attached screenshots of the format options.

[Alex B]

I think that defines the problem.  The next question is how do I convert from 32 bit to 24 or back to a WAV format where I can convert it to 24 bit?  Any Ideas?

I tried dBpoweramp and foobar2000 with my "32-bit float type 1" file. dBpoweramp didn't work. It produced the same distorted output as MC. However, foobar was able to play the file without distortion and convert to other formats.

I don't know if your files are in the same format as my "type 1" file, but you could try foobar. Adobe Audition would be another option. It is an expensive program, but you can install the trial. (The wavPack plugin for Audition is available here: http://www.wavpack.com/downloads.html.)

[tunetyme]

Thnaks AlexB!  I will try out Audition.

[Alex B]

If Audition can open and play the file format and you are unsure what to do next, feel free to ask advice. I'll try to help.

To make the files "FLAC compatible" you must save them in the 24-bit integer format (or lower).

Once you are there you might also lower the sample rate. 192 kHz is overkill for anything. Actually, also 24-bit is overkill, especially for vinyl sourced audio. The real dynamic range and S/N ratio of vinyl recordings is nowhere near even "16-bit" (which can store 0 ... -96 dBFS, and even more in the audible frequency range if dithering and noise shaping is applied.)

I probably would "remaster" the files to the standard CD Audio format (2 ch/16-bit/44.1 kHz). They would be universally compatible without sacrificing the audible quality (if the conversion is done properly).

[tunetyme]

AlexB:

I downloaded Audition and the Wavpack filters as you recommended.  After a couple of tries I was able to convert to 16bit 44.1khz Wav file.  It plays beautifully!!!!

This is a very rare East German vinyl pressing of Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here.  I use iZotope's RX Advanced to clean up music files files.  I will be comparing it to Audition over the next few weeks.  Try it you will love it.  I have also installed iZotope's Ozone 4 that I plan to use to recreate the warmth of the old MacIntosh analog amps. 
http://www.izotope.com/

Tunetyme

[bob]

Wow, that was a cool discussion from both the technical vantage point as well as the music vantage point. Thanks...

[Alex B]

This is a very rare East German vinyl pressing of Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here.  I use iZotope's RX Advanced to clean up music files files.  I will be comparing it to Audition over the next few weeks.  Try it you will love it.  I have also installed iZotope's Ozone 4 that I plan to use to recreate the warmth of the old MacIntosh analog amps. ...

I am familiar with Ozone. It has a very nice user interface and I sometimes use with MC (the VST version). It works fine also with Audition if you prefer its interface. The built-in functions in Audition can achieve about the same results, but the user interface is different. Of course a fully featured pro audio editor like Audition can do many kinds of things. The "mastering" features are just a small part of the package.

[Alex B]

Wow, that was a cool discussion from both the technical vantage point as well as the music vantage point. Thanks...

Bob, did you download the sample files?

Here are some 192/32 samples:

http://cid-138ca589c542aeee.office.live.com/browse.aspx/MC%20stuff/32bit%5E_samples

- Four 192 kHz/32-bit wav files in one rar package (41 MB) and two 192 kHz, 32-bit wavpack files in another rar package (17 MB). (MS Skydrive has a limit of 50 MB / file.)

The audio content is identical in all sample files. I saved them with Adobe Audition v.3.
Wave: three different float formats and one 32-bit integer format
WavPack: Two float formats, type 1 and type 3

[bob]

Bob, did you download the sample files?

I did download them, thanks.
Just haven't had the time to give them a try yet...