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[Wilhelm Kabus]

I am giving up googling now: Have tried to find out if I could use an ASIO driver in my setup. If anyone in this forum could help - you will make a Norwegian happy!

My PC is a Asus EeeBox EB1012P - sound card integrated. My output is SPDIF to an external DAC. I have read that Windows might reduce the sound quality even if my PC soundcard is not used for digital to analog conversion.

Do you know if my PC with Win7 supports ASIO?

Gunnar

[Audionut]

In MC15/16 you can try WASAPI or WASAPI Event Style with your setup, it provides in my opinion the similar levels  of performance as ASIO, particular if your hardware does not have its own dedicated ASIO driver. The ASIO compatibility is not a Win7 or PC issue, but related to the sound card and the driver for it that you are using.

Alternatively do a search for ASIO4ALL and try if it works with your sound card, then you can use ASIO in JRiver instead of WASAPI.

Joerg  <<---hoping to make a Norwegian happy!

[Vincent Kars]

By default all audio on Win is routed through the mixer.
This is independent of the hardware used (onboard/outboard)
It is always converted to 32 float and in the end to a format the DAC will accept (16 or 24 bit integer). This output is always dithered.
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Windows/Win7/Win7Audio.htm

As Audionut pointed out you can avoid this by using WASAPI in exclusive mode.
Kernel streaming (ASIO4ALL) often don't work on modern mobo's
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MC14/MC14_audio.htm

[glynor]

My PC is a Asus EeeBox EB1012P - sound card integrated.

Probably not.  But if that's a Realtek sound chipset (likely), then WASAPI should work fine.

Is there a particular reason you're looking for ASIO over WASAPI?  On Windows 7, there's really no good reason to go with ASIO in a non-pro-musician environment.  It is flaky, requires hardware vendor driver support, and WASAPI has the benefit of offering a true exclusive mode.

[Wilhelm Kabus]

No reason at all. I did not know the differences between these two. I will try WASAPI! 

Thanks 

[Listener]

Is there a particular reason you're looking for AISO over WASAPI?  On Windows 7, there's really no good reason to go with AISO in a non-pro-musician environment.  It is flaky, requires hardware vendor driver support, and WASAPI has the benefit of offering a true exclusive mode.

I don't entirely agree with your dismissal of ASIO.

> requires hardware vendor driver support

If your soundcard or DAC doesn't come with a real ASIO driver, you just pick some other output method.  If it does come with an ASIO driver, that may be a good choice.  I don't see that it represents a difficulty for the user.

> It [ASIO] is flaky,

I've used ASIO with ESI and AudioTrak soundcards for several years on an XP PC.  They have been very reliable.  Drivers are specialized software and some hardware companies don't put enough effort into developing and testing drivers.

There are still a fair number of reports of flakiness issues using WASAPI (even with MC!). Computeraudiophile.com has such threads.  It takes a while for software behavior across interfaces to become well understood.  When Microsoft changed the audio driver model with Vista, it took a long time for soundcard and DAC manufacturers to struggle back to having mature drivers.

> WASAPI has the benefit of offering a true exclusive mode.

And real ASIO doesn't?  Perhaps you could explain further.

Bill

[JimH]

Here's the advice from our wiki:

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

Choose the best output for your hardware in this order:

1) If your hardware has a native, well-behaved, ASIO driver, use ASIO.

2) Otherwise, on Windows Vista, Windows 7, or newer, use WASAPI exclusive.

3) Otherwise, use Kernel Streaming if it works.

4) If none of the above are possible, use DirectSound or WaveOut. Neither of these provide hardware direct output, so choose based on performance.

[glynor]

If your soundcard or DAC doesn't come with a real ASIO driver, you just pick some other output method.  If it does come with an ASIO driver, that may be a good choice.  I don't see that it represents a difficulty for the user.

I don't have time to write up everything I meant, and I didn't mean it to be "dismissing ASIO" completely.  I was writing for the perspective of a user who was asking about an Asus EeeBox EB1012P (an atom-based nettop).

I'd generally agree with the advice in the wiki.  If your device is a pro-quality device with good ASIO drivers, then use ASIO by all means, and they'll almost certainly give you good results.  However, if you're looking at hacking-on ASIO support via ASIO4All or something similar, or if your device has flaky ASIO drivers (many do, or are many versions behind the regular Windows drivers), and you're on Windows 7, there isn't a good reason to try so hard.

And real ASIO doesn't?  Perhaps you could explain further.

Exclusive mode in ASIO drivers is a vendor-supported feature, in WASAPI it is a core part of the infrastructure.  Support for it is not required by the ASIO standard, and back-in-the-day stable support of it was fairly mixed in practice.  Though, this has probably changed.  The last time I really used any ASIO hardware was for pro-audio purposes and was quite some time ago (in another life).

[Wilhelm Kabus]

What is the best way to find out if my soundcard supports ASIO?

[JimH]

Google or the manufacturer's web site.

[Wilhelm Kabus]

No hits on the ASUS pages... Could mean not supported, but not necessarily...

Could send them a support issue - but getting correct answers is not easy 

[Matt]

What is the best way to find out if my soundcard supports ASIO?

I would not expect a motherboard integrated soundcard to have an ASIO driver.

But you could install the latest soundcard drivers, and then see if your device shows in Media Center when you try to configure ASIO ( Options > Audio > Pick ASIO, then Output mode settings... ).

[Listener]

Here's the advice from our wiki:

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

I would add one thing to that advice:

"Start with DirectSound and get MC working.  Once you have audio working and are comfortable using MC, then you can experiment with other audio output interface choices."

---
I see a lot of posts on audiophile forums from beginners and those giving advice.  Both kinds concentrate on advice on getting the best sound right away.  The result is that computer audio (and getting started with MC) seems very complicated and difficult.  That is unnecessary if beginners master the basics before trying to tweak MC.

Bill

[JimH]

I would add one thing to that advice:

"Start with DirectSound and get MC working.  Once you have audio working and are comfortable using MC, then you can experiment with other audio output interface choices."

Good advice.  I've added this.  Thanks.

[glynor]

I would add one thing to that advice:

"Start with DirectSound and get MC working.  Once you have audio working and are comfortable using MC, then you can experiment with other audio output interface choices."

+1000

[Galaxian]

OK, I've tried the ASIO using my Xonar DS card. I was able to switch it on and set it in MC. Realised there was no volume control and that MC was linked to the system volume. I set it to internal volume and so can now control within MC. This is the correct approach right?

Definitely a better sound. It's set at 32-bit - is this the right setting?

Now for the difficult bit. How can I toggle back to directsound to get my general windows sound back? I can find nothing obvious! The Xonar DS Audio Centre does not deal with the ASIO. I right click the taskbar icon to access the ASIO setting but there is no selection to turn it off! Any ideas?

[rick.ca]

How can I toggle back to directsound to get my general windows sound back?

Try using two Zones, one configured for ASIO, the other for DirectSound.

[Galaxian]

Sorry what do you mean about Zones (Newbe here)?

I actually do not know how to revert. But am still interested in your suggestion.

[glynor]

Sorry what do you mean about Zones (Newbe here)?

Read this: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=62754.msg420709#msg420709

It was targeted at someone asking about video, but the same stuff all applies.

The reason I said "it wasn't worth trying" is that ASIO and WASAPI are both bit-perfect outputs that avoid the Windows mixer and driver optimizations, so should both produce identical results (assuming support for one or the other isn't broken in hardware).  Generally, cheaper consumer-targeted sound devices will do better with WASAPI and you'll sometimes have fewer problems in other Windows applications that need to use DirectSound (games, mostly).

Last I looked into it, the main difference was that ASIO still provided ever-so-slightly lower-latency output than WASAPI (which matters in pro-audio environments, but not for MC's purposes), but that was way back when Vista went RC and it may have changed a bunch since then.  Are there any other tangible benefits to ASIO over WASAPI?

[Galaxian]

Right I understand the zones, but this is particular to MC. My problem is that I cannot revert my soundcard driver back from asio, so I have no windows sounds - how do I get directsound back?

[glynor]

Right I understand the zones, but this is particular to MC. My problem is that I cannot revert my soundcard driver back from asio, so I have no windows sounds - how do I get directsound back?

I could be totally wrong (and it may depend on what specific hardware you have), but I believe you have to uninstall the ASIO driver and reinstall the regular Windows one.  Hence, WASAPI being more convenient.

Read this: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=86118

[Matt]

I could be totally wrong (and it may depend on what specific hardware you have), but I believe you have to uninstall the ASIO driver and reinstall the regular Windows one.  Hence, WASAPI being more convenient.

That's not right.

ASIO and WDM drivers can be installed at the same time.

If you can't play Windows sounds while ASIO is in use, that's normal.  Read the notes here about Hardware Direct caveats:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes#Hardware_Direct

[glynor]

That's not right.

Yeah, I thought that was wrong after I thought about it.  The Xonar cards seem to be a special case, at least according to that thread at Hydrogenaudio.

Of course, he might be asking if he can get regular Windows sounds simultaneously with MC running.  That wasn't how I interpreted it.

[Galaxian]

Right my soundcard is therefore locked. I used the config to switch from WDM(?) to ASIO. Why can't I switch it back? Do I really need to uninstall/reinstall the card's driver? I want to know how to turn off ASIO in windows.

[glynor]

Can you explain step-by-step exactly what you did and what you are trying to accomplish?

Brevity doesn't seem to be helping here.

[Galaxian]

OK. Really odd. I now have my windows sounds back AND also MC's output is set at ASIO. Changing it to DirectSound also works.

My PC was behaving as if they were mutually exclusive, which clearly is not the case (re Matt's earlier comments).

I now see he means that two drivers can be installed at the same time (as in my case) but if MC is playing in ASIO mode I cannot access the card for general windows purposes. Just tested this - as soon as a hit stop on MC, the other sounds kicked in.

I had lost windows sound when MC was not playing though....

[glynor]

Oh, yes.  That is normal.  That is exclusive mode.

I would be curious to know if someone who knows modern ASIO setups better has some comments on any tangible benefits of ASIO over WASAPI other than latency.  I don't mean anything based on perception (eg "it sounds brighter" or whatever), but something technical.

Even the poor latency of DirectSound has never been a serious problem for my home uses (though I do use WASAPI now), so latency isn't a big concern for my needs.  I'm mostly just curious, but if both are bit-perfect, then what is the benefit of having to run special drivers?

[popper]

you mean what are the benefits that are not tangibles and no perceptibles? im curious myself to first choose the benefits i perceive and after, if posssible, to understand why....but after....

[shAf]

...
As Audionut pointed out you can avoid this by using WASAPI in exclusive mode.
...

I see only 2 instances for choosing WASAPI in MC16 Audio options: (1) WASAPI and (2) WASAPI - event style.  What's the difference and which one offers 'exclusive mode', and how do I opt for it??

TIA