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[squeedle]

I'm new to this program but have fallen in love with it. It's phenomenal.

There is one issue I wanted to inquire about though. The player seems to update the ID tags of my FLAC files with "last played" information. This is a handy feature, but it makes doing system backups kind of a pain because all those large files are now considered to have "changed" when in fact all that's changed are the insignificant "last played" tags.

It would be great if the "last played" information could be stored outside of the files themselves or disabled. I don't want a file to be physically changed unless I purposely change a tag myself.

Possible? Stupid?

Thanks again for such an amazing program.

[MrC]

This is curious. I look at my physical FLAC tags for a track I played today:

Code: [Select]

Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC)
  44.1 kHz Sample Rate
  16 Bits Per Sample
  2 Channels

  Min Block Size = 4608
  Max Block Size = 4608
  Min Frame Size = 14
  Max Frame Size = 12595
  Padding Block = 4112 bytes

SeekTable Block (594 bytes):
  # of points = 33

Vorbis Comment Block (374 bytes):
  Vendor String =
  TOOL NAME = Media Center
  TOOL VERSION = 16.0.55
  GENRE = World
  DATE = 1987
  TITLE = Wawusho Kubani (Who Were You Talking To?)
  TRACKNUMBER = 10
  COMMENT = Track 10
  ARTIST = Ladysmith Black Mambazo
  ALBUM = Shaka Zulu
  BPM = 73
  INTENSITY = 1
  REFERENCE ID = 241
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN = +1.82 dB
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_PEAK = 0.991360
As you can see, nothing reference the last play time.  Perhaps your MC has Last Played set to write tags to the file when possible.  Check Options->Library and Folders->Manage Library Fields, and examine the Last Played field.  Is the "Store in file tags (when possible)" attribute checked?

[glynor]

Just disable automatic tag writing:

Tools -> Options -> General -> Import & Tagging -> Update tags when file info changes.

With this disabled, MC won't modify the file tags unless you manually select the file (or files) and right click and choose Library Tools -> Update tags (from library).

[Alex B]

"Last Played" is not written to a file tag by default. As MrC said, check the field specific "Store in file tags (when possible)" option and untick it (if it is enabled).

glynor,

That global option disables all tag writing, also manual updates. Any changed info will be stored only in the database. Of course you can re-enable tag writing and after that do "Update tags (from library)".

I actually use it a lot and I'd welcome a shortcut (perhaps a toolbar button) for switching it on and off. For instance, I don't write tags to my original image files and I always need to change the option before tagging them.

[squeedle]

Wow, egg on face. I think it was actually Foobar that was doing that to my files. Sorry, folks! Duh...

I do have some other (legitimate) feature requests that I'll be passing along in the near future. Hopefully they won't go totally ignored now that I've established myself as a tard!

[glynor]

glynor,

That global option disables all tag writing, also manual updates. Any changed info will be stored only in the database. Of course you can re-enable tag writing and after that do "Update tags (from library)".

I figured since he was asking about disabling tag writing and the subject of the post was "Feature Request: Do Not Update Tags", and he was obviously a new user (or poster anyway), it was worth pointing out that this feature is available already.  He mentioned one specific tag in the post itself, but didn't explicitly say that this is the ONLY tag he wanted to avoid writing automatically.  It looks like now that the Last Played tag was the only one he was really concerned with, but I didn't assume that to be true before.

I didn't realize that you couldn't then use the manual tag updating process, though.  That kinda stinks.  Why?

[Matt]

I actually use it a lot and I'd welcome a shortcut (perhaps a toolbar button) for switching it on and off. For instance, I don't write tags to my original image files and I always need to change the option before tagging them.

In a coming build:
NEW: Added tag writing option from Options > General to the main program menu: Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes.
NEW: Tag writing option is also available as a toolbar button.

[Alex B]

Thanks!

[glynor]

In a coming build:
NEW: Added tag writing option from Options > General to the main program menu: Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes.
NEW: Tag writing option is also available as a toolbar button.

That's fine, but wouldn't it just make more sense to have it so that the Options -> General setting only affect automatic Tagging, and when the user proactively goes to Library Tools -> Update Tags (from Library) you assume they know what they're doing and apply the tags?  Then you don't need all that quick access to the setting.

Or is it a "safety" thing... That you want a way to disable all access to tagging no matter what, even if the user is dumb and bumbling?  If so, then I think the option could be worded more strongly, because it seems like it is more of a "sync metadata changes to the file tags" setting than a "turn off ALL tagging, even manual ones" setting with the current wording.  To me, anyway.

[leezer3]

That's fine, but wouldn't it just make more sense to have it so that the Options -> General setting only affect automatic Tagging, and when the user proactively goes to Library Tools -> Update Tags (from Library) you assume they know what they're doing and apply the tags?  Then you don't need all that quick access to the setting.

Completely agree.


I've also got problems with the current tagging implementation, although minor.
The biggest issue with the 'Update Tags' function, is that under some circumstances (Manual imports of folders containing videos mainly) with it enabled, it seems to pull some tags out of the file and replace those in the database if MC considers them to be newer. My database is sacrosanct, and most of the time I really couldn't care less what's actually in the file.

The only time I actually care what's in the tags is when I'm transferring to handhelds. Currently, MC simply transfers the file on disk to the handheld, and this often means the tags in the file just synced to the handheld are out of whack with the database, and I find myself toggling this option and doing a manual writeout of tags before handheld sync. The ideal solution would really be to have an option to perform a tag writeout on handheld sync.
(As an aside, this can also show up with the 'Update Tags' enabled if you import a large number of files, change a couple of tags and then sync a handheld before the tag writing has a chance to catch up)

-Leezer-

[rjm]

In a coming build:
NEW: Added tag writing option from Options > General to the main program menu: Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes.
NEW: Tag writing option is also available as a toolbar button.

Thanks from me too. I'm also switch tag writing off when working on my photos. This will come in handy.

p.s. my kingdom for a toolbar "clear playing now" button

[JimH]

Could you describe your kingdom?

[rjm]

Could you describe your kingdom?

A small deserted island where I spend too many hours every day collecting and organizing media with MC. Part of my workflow involves playing the media for a brief period to confirm the title and quality of the audio or video track. After playing, the track is highlighted because it is in Playing Now. This makes it difficult to tag in list view. Thus I have to clear Playing Now before I can complete the tagging which involves scrolling the tree to Playing Now and right clicking to clear it - a very clumsy operation. Thus a button I could add to the toolbar for clearing Playing Now (or a keyboard shortcut) would make life on my little island much more pleasant.

[MrC]

Why do you have to clear to tag?

[rjm]

Why do you have to clear to tag?

Not clear the tag. I need to empty Playing Now because I do all my tagging in list view (grid view? not sure what its called - I don't use the action window for tagging) and it's harder to tag a block of tracks when one of them is highlighted.

[MrC]

Not clear the tag. I need to empty Playing Now because I do all my tagging in list view (grid view? not sure what its called - I don't use the action window for tagging) and it's harder to tag a block of tracks when one of them is highlighted.

Right; I'm not understanding what you feel is "harder" (I asked about clear *to* tag, btw).  I tag in list view all the time, even in Now Playing.  Select your tracks, place the mouse over the field you want to tag, and hit F2.

btw. The nice thing about having the Action window open too, is that you can see when tags differ when multiple files are selected.

[rjm]

Right; I'm not understanding what you feel is "harder" (I asked about clear *to* tag, btw).  I tag in list view all the time, even in Now Playing.  Select your tracks, place the mouse over the field you want to tag, and hit F2.

Most of what I tag are multi-track collections. For example, music albums, multi-chapter audiobooks, and multi-episode documentaries. When tagging in list view I select a block of tracks, press F2 and edit a field. When I press return the edit is applied to all tracks in the block.

Now, if I have just finished listening to one of the tracks in the block to confirm quality or title, then it is highlighted (bolded) because it is the last played track. This highlighting makes it harder for my eyes to spot tagging problems or omissions in the block of tracks. Thus I clear Playing Now to get rid of the highlighting before I resume tagging.

[rick.ca]

Thus I clear Playing Now to get rid of the highlighting before I resume tagging.

Why don't you just change zones? There's even a Toolbar button for it—and a keyboard shortcut! And you can keep listening!!

The toolbar button request list must be rather long by now. I think it would be more productive to provide the ability to add any MCC command to a custom button image.

[rjm]

Why don't you just change zones? There's even a Toolbar button for it—and a keyboard shortcut! And you can keep listening!!

The toolbar button request list must be rather long by now. I think it would be more productive to provide the ability to add any MCC command to a custom button image.

Never tried zones, thanks for the tip, I'll try it.
Yes, I've proposed in the past that every command should be assignable to a button.

[MrC]

The toolbar button request list must be rather long by now.

I wonder, is the primary barrier that button artwork is required?  If so, a generic button would suffice as a first step.  Or perhaps the table of methods is not trivial to implement.

I think it would be more productive to provide the ability to add any MCC command to a custom button image.

Yes!

[rjm]

I'd be more than happy with a plain generic button.

[MrHaugen]

That's fine, but wouldn't it just make more sense to have it so that the Options -> General setting only affect automatic Tagging, and when the user proactively goes to Library Tools -> Update Tags (from Library) you assume they know what they're doing and apply the tags?  Then you don't need all that quick access to the setting.

That makes more sense, yes.

[rick.ca]

I wonder, is the primary barrier that button artwork is required?

LOL... That's exactly why I said "custom button image"—so real development wouldn't grind to a halt as the full resources of JRiver were tied-up in designing 250 new icons that accurately depict their assigned MCC function. And in the time it would take some creative users to complete the task, I also figured...

I'd be more than happy with a plain generic button.

Maybe something like this...

[MusicHawk]

>> Update Tags When File Info Changes

Based on attempts to train new MC users (the price I pay for recommending it frequently), I think this (and other UI/menu) wording could be clearer. UI and terminology consistency makes a product easier to learn and use.

What is "File Info" in the context of "Update Tags"? It's not clear what is being applied to what. (I know what happens, but that's due to experience, not clarity.)

Because, in various places in MC the term "Tag" refers to a field in the database, and at other times a value embedded in the media file. And "File" usually refers to the physical FILE, yet in this context it really means the DATABASE record. And sometimes, Tags and Fields are referred to as "Properties".

And the database is sometimes called the "Library", but it is not always clear whether this term means database-only or means database plus the collection of all the files it catalogs. For instance, pressing Shift+Delete offers options that all use the term Media Library to refer to both the database and the media file.

Adding to confusion about the meaning of Library is the "Library Tools" submenu -- a mix of commands that operate only on the Database, the Media Files (Rename, Convert Format, etc), and both (various Update actions). Or are unclear (Remove Tags... from where?). This mix of database/file actions grouped as Library Tools clouds the meaning of commands such as "update tags from library".

"Delete" by itself is still scary (after more than a decade of using MC/MJ). Delete sounds rather permanent. In MC, the action of pressing "Delete" can vary from removing just a database record REFERENCE (from Recently Imported, for instance) to actually deleting a database record AND nuking the associated media file. Sometimes the term is clarified, but often the right-click simply offers "Delete". An experienced user knows Shift-Delete offers options -- but does it always? At the least, there should be indication of this next to the word "Delete". (Again, experience shouldn't be required to understand UI wording...) I suggest Delete consistently means "delete the media file from storage device", and alternate term Remove from Database be used where only the database is affected -- as is already the case with Remove Cover Art.

Re the Update menu options, clearer could be something like this:

Update Media File Tags when Database Fields are Changed (check box)

and related commands:

Update Media File Tags from Database Fields.

Update Database Fields from Media File Tags.

Update Database Fields from Filename.

Etc.

And (finally), it might be good to be clear about what Update means, vs. say, Fill -- the concern being, when is a SINGLE field overwritten, vs. the entire record/set of fields overwritten?

It would also be nice to have an indication of when Undo applies to an action, or not.

[rjm]

Right on MusicHawk!

[JimH]

We're not likely to make sweeping changes in terminology.  There will always be some ambiguity.  A library can be a lot of things.

Introducing users to fields and records is not going to happen.  The generally used term in Windows is "properties".  Media codecs use tags.

Whenever we can, we try to make things as clear as possible, but I'm afraid you're going to have to live with some ambiguity and some terminology overlap.

Anybody see the full moon this week?  We've been under a cloud cover for a week here in Minnesota.

[glynor]

Anybody see the full moon this week?  We've been under a cloud cover for a week here in Minnesota.

We got a really clear view of it here.  We all went out and looked at it together.

It's snowing today.  

[MrC]

No moon here either.  Clouds won the battle.  We were fortunate enough back in Dec. to see this immediately above us on our front porch.  Stunning.

[rick.ca]

Whenever we can, we try to make things as clear as possible, but I'm afraid you're going to have to live with some ambiguity and some terminology overlap.

It goes without saying you don't have to implement every suggestion. But it's disheartening to see a perfectly legitimate suggestion dismissed so flippantly. It doesn't refer to unavoidable ambiguity—it quite carefully refers to completely unnecessary ambiguity. It may be too late to change "library" to "database" in the minds of existing users, but that doesn't change the fact the latter is the less ambiguous and better understood term. You might argue some don't fully understand terms like database, record, field and file, but anyone who can operate a computer and use software like MC is perfectly capable of learning the ordinary meaning of those words. The same cannot be said for library, tag and property. "Tag" is hopelessly ambiguous. It's used to refer to a database record, a field in that record, a tag block in a media file, or a field in that block...

Almost every day we see new users struggle because they don't quite understand MC is a database application managing information about media files—as well as managing the files themselves. Sheltering them from the universally accepted terms used to describe those things is not helpful. And the absence of a well established context for those terms within the program makes it more difficult for experienced users to explain these essential basic concepts to new users.