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Author Topic: MC15 and codecs  (Read 2426 times)

Ilan

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MC15 and codecs
« on: March 21, 2011, 02:44:21 am »

Hi

1) Is the MC15 self supporting in terms of codecs, or do I need install some codec pack?

2) Which codec pack is most recommended?

3) Should the codec pack be installed before or after the MC15 installation?

4) What about MC15 on WinXp versus Win7? Does the Win7 include codecs?

5) Any other recommendation the forum has on this topic? I know that for example: Mplayer Classic and VLC players already include codecs inside the software, and do not need third party stuff. Right. I got the impression they work much smoother...why then not do the same in MC?

Ilan


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glynor

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Re: MC15 and codecs
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 10:43:29 am »

1) Is the MC15 self supporting in terms of codecs, or do I need install some codec pack?

MC supports FLAC, APE, MP3, and WAV on it's own (and maybe a few other audio formats).

For video, it can use a variety of different playback engines to handle decompression.  If you have QuickTime installed, it will use that to handle QuickTime type formats, though that isn't the ideal solution (there are limitations in the way MC can use the QuickTime engine).  MC is also a DirectShow player and can use standard Windows DirectShow filters.  Windows 7 now supports a variety of different video compression schemes built-in, including MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 (including many varieties of H264).  Windows does not have a capable built-in "file splitter" though, so MKVs won't work (and frankly I'm not sure about MP4s, certainly not the full feature set).

2) Which codec pack is most recommended?

This really depends on your needs.  The simplest and safest thing to do is to use CCCP.  This should handle the vast majority of playback types, and includes the most common filters you will need or want, with some good preset settings and a nice installation wizard.  Considerable focus is put into CCCP to ensure that it won't conflict with anything else on your system.

Another common choice is the K-Lite Codec Pack.  However, unless you really know what you're doing, I would avoid any of the K-Lite versions other than Standard or Basic.  To be clear, you DO NOT need the 64-bit version if you are running a 64-bit build of Windows.  That is only for fully 64-bit player applications, many of which are of dubious quality and necessity.  Generally, you only need the 64-bit versions if you want to use the codecs in the Microsoft Windows Media Center application (their 10-foot media player UI) on a 64-bit build of Windows.  For J River MC and most other DirectShow players (like Windows Media Player) you will need the 32-bit versions even if you are on a 64-bit build of Windows.

Those are good foundations to start with (one or the other, absolutely NOT both).  One last common addition is CoreAVC 2.0.  This commercial decoder ($10) is very good for lower-powered PCs to enable GPU acceleration and generally dramatically better H264 decode performance.  I also think it does a bit better of a job decoding H264 content than FFDSHOW out of the box, but to each their own.  CoreAVC handles ONLY MPEG-4 AVC content (H264), so you will want to use it along side of other codecs to fully support all of the different media types you will encounter.  A common and well-supported configuration is to use CCCP and CoreAVC together (this is especially useful if you have an Atom or CULV-based ultraportable that can't quite handle 1080p H264 decoding using the regular open-source filters).

There are a variety of other "specialty" decode and rendering filters available for higher-end needs, but it would be best to get the system working well with the above components first, and then add other things slowly and one-at-a-time if you need them (usually you won't), or if you understand and need the additional capabilities or features.

Some extras you may want are:

Apple's Quicktime Player or QT-Lite.
Real Alternative

3) Should the codec pack be installed before or after the MC15 installation?

Doesn't matter at all.

If you are going to use CoreAVC, it is easiest to install CoreAVC FIRST and then add CCCP second, though you can do it in the reverse order if you want and it will still work (though you may have to enable CoreAVC in the CCCP wizard manually after the fact).

MC's installation doesn't care about the filters and is independent, so it doesn't matter in that regard.

4) What about MC15 on WinXp versus Win7? Does the Win7 include codecs?

Windows XP includes basically only MPEG-1 and Windows Media decoders built-in (and a splitter for AVI, but not decoders for most of the codecs used to create AVIs).

I addressed what Windows 7 includes above.  It has a built-in MPEG-2 decoder (for DVD playback, actually quite nice quality), and a new MPEG-4 decoder (mostly for H264 video, but I believe it can handle MPEG-4 ASP as well).  These will actually be used as the defaults for supported formats EVEN IF you install a codec pack, unless you manually switch which codec is "active" using the Windows 7 Preferred Filter tool.  For MC, the only settings in that tool that matter are the ones under 32-bit on the first page.  There is no reason to manually disable the Windows filters on the second page unless you need to use special filters in Windows Media Center (the Microsoft 10-foot application thing).  I'd avoid doing anything fancy like that because it can cause problems with upgrades.  Tweaking the 32-bit preferred filters works perfectly though.

One other difference between XP and Windows 7 is the audio engine.  Windows 7 has a completely re-worked audio back-end, and is much improved over XP.  Windows 7 (and Vista SP1) allows you to use WASAPI output mode, which allows bit-perfect audio output without using specialty audio hardware and drivers.  If you are putting something new together, Windows 7 is by-far the superior choice.

5) Any other recommendation the forum has on this topic? I know that for example: Mplayer Classic and VLC players already include codecs inside the software, and do not need third party stuff. Right. I got the impression they work much smoother...why then not do the same in MC?

VLC is built as a multi-platform video engine.  It works on Linux and Mac OSX, both of which don't (obviously) have the DirectShow system designed by Microsoft, so they have NO CHOICE but to build the filters into the player.  This has the advantages of simplicity (it "Just Works") but it isn't extremely flexible.  If you want to use a different playback engine because it has better quality or offers some feature you need, then VLC's system can be quite limiting.

MPC is something of a hybrid.  It is a DirectShow player just like MC.  However, because it is built as part of the same projects (and by the same people) that are generally creating the filters themselves, they actually include many of these filters as part of the MPC installation process.

The MPC and VLC filters are essentially the equivalent to using CCCP in most cases (VLC does include some "extras" not included in CCCP, like Real and MOV support), though they are developed and released more rapidly (which can be a blessing and a curse).  They use the same filters at their core, just with different wrappers in VLC's case to make them cross-platform.

MC does not include many decoding filters itself.  This is for a variety of reasons, but probably the biggest one is that both VLC and the FFDSHOW/MPC projects are almost certainly absolutely crawling with patent violations that would open themselves up to a ton of lawsuits if there was actually a "corporation" behind the projects to sue.  At the very least, the fact that FFDSHOW and VLC decode MPEG-4 AVC (H264) means that they're violating some patents held by the MPEG-LA.  There is always the chance that the Licensing Authority could decide to sue the individual code contributors to these open source projects.  This is unlikely mainly because, since the projects are non-commercial, it is likely that the effort would not be worth the steep PR cost for the companies involved.

However, commercial software offered for sale by a company like J River would not be so lucky.  For them to build their own decoders, it would be a SUBSTANTIAL development effort and would raise the cost of MC for everyone (because they'd have to pay the MPEG-LA licensing fees), for very little tangible gain since the open source decoders already exist and are freely available.

For more information, read the DirectShow Playback Guide in MC's Wiki.  It hasn't been fully updated for a while, but most of the concepts are still completely accurate (just some of the screenshots use older versions of MC and of the various filters/tools).
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Ilan

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Re: MC15 and codecs
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2011, 04:25:13 pm »

Thnx for the detailed and educative answer.

All the best,

Ilan
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