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[Von]

Either natively, or using some available plugin?

[Alex B]

The built-in External Encoder plugin works fine with command line encoders. MC16 has now full support for writing m4a tags so there are no limitations anymore.

The free Nero AAC encoder (can encode AAC/m4a files): http://www.nero.com/enu/technologies-aac-codec.html

The free qaac frontend program for QuickTime (can encode AAC/m4a and Apple Losless/m4a, the free standard version of QuickTime must be installed on the system): http://sites.google.com/site/qaacpage

_________________________________________________________________________

A related feature request:

Ability to store presets for different External Encoder settings and/or ability to create additional named External Encoder instances (each instance would store individual settings).

[Von]

Thanks. Is the free Nero encoder considered a good one?

[glynor]

Thanks. Is the free Nero encoder considered a good one?

Yes.  It is standards compliant (at least largely so for the important stuff) and is well regarded.

[Von]

Sounds good, I'll try it.

Thanks!

[Alex B]

Nero and Apple's QuickTime (iTunes uses the QT codecs) are generally considered as the best AAC encoders.

You can find some Hydrogen Audio listening test results from the link in my signature. The tests are already quite old, but both encoders have only got better since the tests.

A new public 64 kbps multiformat listening test has just finished. In that test Apple was slightly better than Nero, but the encoders were tested in the High Efficiency mode (HE-AAC). The results do not say anything about the quality of the Low Complexity mode at higher bitrates (LC-AAC or just AAC). LC-AAC is normally used at over 80 kbps. Links:
  - presentation: http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/igorc/index.htm
  - pre test discussion: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=87785
  - results: http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/igorc/results.html
  - post test discussion: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=88023

[glynor]

Here's a good quick reference on the Nero AAC command line: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Nero_AAC
And here is the "official" HydrogenAudio recommended settings list for Nero AAC: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=44310

In general, if you are encoding at high VBR quality settings, there is no difference in audio quality between modern builds of LAME and any competent AAC encoder (meaning, anything but the old iTunes AAC encoder, they've fixed it since).  If you have some format or hardware-specific reason to use AAC over MP3, then Nero's encoder is a good choice because it is free and simple.

PS. Alex would certainly be the one to listen to on this stuff.   

[Alex B]

Apple QT will be as simple to configure and use as Nero after I have posted my instructions. (I am working on them.)

Regarding quality, for instance the "iTunes+" mode is very very good (256+ kbps constrained VBR, the current iTunes shop setting).

Of course, Nero VBR at about the same bitrate or LAME MP3 -V0 aka "VBR EXtreme" are also excellent.

At about 128 kbps VBR Apple may have slight edge over Nero, but that is only my personal opinion. In general, these two AAC encoders produce quite high quality already at 128 kbps VBR.

[glynor]

Apple QT will be as simple to configure and use as Nero after I have posted my instructions.

Except that you have to install QuickTime, of course.   

[glynor]

Regarding quality, for instance the "iTunes+" mode is very very good (256+ kbps constrained VBR, the current Tunes shop setting).

Of course, Nero VBR at about the same bitrate or LAME MP3 -V0 aka "VBR EXtreme" are also excellent.

At about 128 kbps VBR Apple may have slight edge over Nero, but that is only my personal opinion. In general, these two AAC encoders produce quite high quality already at 128 kbps VBR.

Just to be clear, I wasn't really insinuating earlier that Nero was better than (or worse than) iTunes/QT.  I'm sure what you're saying here is right (I've read the threads when lurking over at HA too)... Just that once you get up to around ~200-240kbps, any minute differences between all of these encoders are mostly splitting hairs, especially since LAME is so good at high VBR quality settings.

Installing QuickTime is annoying if I don't have to... Mainly because of the stupid Apple Software Update thing which always wants to install Safari on my machine if I'm not careful.

Alex, if you were going to encode lossy at roughly the file size equivalent of LAME -V1 or V0, would there be any compelling reason to use AAC instead (other than hardware compatibility)?  Obviously at ~128kbps (and especially lower) it is a very different discussion, but last I really looked into it seriously, I basically came up with "just use LAME at -V1 or -V0 and be done with it" as my answer.  But, that was probably 3-4 years ago so a lot has probably changed.  

[glynor]

A related feature request:

Ability to store presets for different External Encoder settings and/or ability to create additional named External Encoder instances (each instance would store individual settings).

This would be awesome.

It would be nice to have similar capabilities for video too, which was promised by Yaobing many, many moons ago.  It would be sweet if they did both for v16.

[Alex B]

Installing QuickTime is annoying if I don't have to... Mainly because of the stupid Apple Software Update thing which always wants to install Safari on my machine if I'm not careful.

QT doesn't bother me. I have removed the "Run > QuickTime Task (qttask.exe)" command from the registry and disabled automatic updates. However, Apple has constantly improved the AAC encoding quality and I'd recommend always updating QT to the latest if you use it for encoding. (I download and install the new versions manually.)


I too think that at 200+ kbps VBR the audible quality differences between the modern lossy encoders are minimal, if non-existent. Personally I am interested in creating 96-128 kbps AAC files for my Nokia phone (and its limited memory card capacity). Currently I use Koss Porta Pro headphones, and some files really sound better in AAC format than in MP3 format at about 128 kbps or below.

[glynor]

I too have QT on many of my systems (the ones where I need to use iTunes for my phones, and my Macs of course), and I agree...  It isn't too bad if you take those two steps.  Just annoying that you have to take them.

Interesting...

I currently have MC create LAME VBR -V5 stacks for syncing over to my iPhones to save space.  That works fine, but sometimes the quality is noticeably bad.  Perhaps more importantly, there is the fact that MC doesn't handle having two different versions of a file in the same container format very well if you have it stack the files "in place" (they just end up named "-1.mp3" which is annoying and confusing if you need to manage the files manually ever).  It is fine, of course, when I'm stacking from a FLAC source, but many of my library files are LAME -V0...

If I switch my conversion encoder for the handheld to AAC, that would solve the problem in most cases and get me a bit better quality to boot.

I'd be very interested to see your recommendations, Alex, when you get them done.  I actually have QT installed on the server machine already (and I keep it updated), so using QT would be simple.

[Von]

Personally I am interested in creating 96-128 kbps AAC files for my Nokia phone (and its limited memory card capacity). Currently I use Koss Porta Pro headphones, and some files really sound better in AAC format than in MP3 format at about 128 kbps or below.

This is exactly what I wish to do, Alex. Could you please post a copy of the options you use under Parameters in the external encoder settings? I'm having some trouble making it work.

Thanks!

[Von]

If anyone could give me an example of some parameters that work, I would really appreciate it. Something I can just paste in to get me started. I have tried different settings based on what I have found on pages listed here, but I must be doing something wrong. When I try to convert an ape file to aac, the process simply freezes at 50% completed, probably when the ape file has been converted to wav and MC doesn't know what to do next. I have to force quit the process.

[Alex B]

Apple QuickTime & qaac

Install the latest QuickTime build if don't already have it (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/).

Download and unpack the qaac zip package to some folder. I use C:\Soft\ for programs that don't need to be installed to Windows. My qaac folder is C:\Soft\qaac\. The v. 0.47 is the latest at the moment (qaac_0.47.zip): http://sites.google.com/site/qaacpage/cabinet


These settings are for high quality ~130 kbps unrestricted VBR (TVBR aka "true VBR"):



--tvbr 65 -s %IN -o %OUT

Here are some other command lines:

--tvbr 45 -s %IN -o %OUT    ~96 kbps TVBR

--cvbr 256 -s %IN -o %OUT   ~256+ kbps constrained VBR (iTunes Shop setting)

-A -s %IN -o %OUT  Apple Lossless (ALAC)

I'll post more info later


Nero AAC

I'll add this later.

[Alex B]

... When I try to convert an ape file to aac, the process simply freezes at 50% completed...

When it works the progress bar will still momentarily freeze during the actual encoding. The progress bar is not designed to receive feedback from the external encoder.

If you want to monitor the encoding process you can untick the "Hide Command Window" setting and remove the -s parameter from the command line. (-s or --silent = Don't be verbose)

[Von]

Thanks, Alex!  I currently don't have QuickTime installed, and would rather not if I don't have to, so I eagerly await your Nero settings.

(Thanks also for the tip about the progress bar freezing. In my case, there really was no progress, because "Hide Command Window" was not ticked, and it hung for a very long time.)

[Alex B]

Nero AAC

http://www.nero.com/enu/technologies-aac-codec.html

Download the zip package, unzip and place the neroAacEnc.exe file in some folder

These settings are for ~130 kbps VBR:



-q 0.41 -if %IN -of %OUT


Some other settings:

-q 0.34 -if %IN -of %OUT  ~96 kbps VBR

-q 0.50 -if %IN -of %OUT  ~175 kbps VBR

The - q values below 0.31 will create HE-AAC files, for instance:

-q 0.25 -if %IN -of %OUT  ~64 kbps VBR  (HE-AAC)


The VBR bitrates are only estimates and may vary greatly depending on the encoded material.

[Alex B]

The qaac/QuickTime AAC VBR quality settings

The qaac --tvbr parameter accepts values from 0 to 127. However, the QuickTime encoder has only 15 actually functional quality steps:

TVBR Value   Estimated bitrate range (kbps)
0-4          37-45
5-13         44-61
14-22        60-76
23-31        71-87
32-40        77-95
41-49        90-111
50-58        105-124
59-68        115-139  
69-77        131-156
78-86        141-170
87-95        167-203
96-104       190-244
105-113      219-277
114-122      238-311
123-127      263-342

For example, --tvbr 59, --tvbr 64 and --tvbr 68 produce identical encoded files.

The Nero AAC VBR quality settings

The Nero -q value range does not have steps. Each different value produces different output. It accepts values from 0 to 1. The default setting is -q 0.5. It is used when the command line does not contain any encoding mode parameters. The values from 0 to 0.30 create HE-AAC files by default.

[Von]

-q 0.41 -if %IN -of % OUT

Thank you. I just tried this one, but the process still freezes. The command window never shows. Any ideas?

[Alex B]

Hmm... The command line appears to have an additional space character after the latter %. The error is already in the Nero screenshot, but when I now open the settings it isn't there. Probably I did a typo when I changed the settings from qaac to Nero and back again.
(To JRiver: we need the presets or some other way to store more than one preconfigured external encoder.)

The correct string is of course: -q 0.41 -if %IN -of %OUT

Sorry for the additional trouble (assuming your problem is caused by this). I have fixed the text examples and will fix also the screenshot.

[Von]

The correct string is of course: -q 0.41 -if %IN -of %OUT

Sorry for additional trouble (assuming your problem is caused by this). I have fixed the text examples and will fix also the screenshot.

Yes, that did it! Thank you very much, it's working now.

[shAf]

These parameter options are always confusing (for any codec).  Just so I know I'm using them properly, please comment on the difference between:

-q [0 ... 1] -if %IN -of %OUT

and

--tvbr [0 ... 127] -s %IN -o %OUT

ie, specifically the syntax ...  '-' versus '--' ... '-s' versus '-if' ... '-o' versus '-of' ...

Will these settings allow MC16 to organize the converted files elsewhere, or do they have to remain in the same directory?

TIA 

[Alex B]

The two different encoders just need different command lines. MC replaces the %IN and %OUT strings with actual input and output filenames. Otherwise the command lines are passed exactly as they are.

You can define the directory path in the standard way in the "Converter" part of the encoding options window.

[Alex B]

Alternatively you can create a "virtual handheld" to a hard drive location and simply sync it I like any portable. I use this feature for maintaining a separate repository of converted files and playlists in MC16. I have disabled the conversion cache (aka "stacking") feature in Options > File Location > Conversion Cache > Audio/Video/Images > Cache Location...  because otherwise I would have the converted files stored twice.

From that repository I copy files to various portable devices. For example, it is possible to set iTunes to import from that location and use it for syncing Apple devices. I don't have any Apple devices, but I use another J River program version (e.g. MC15 or MJ14) for syncing other portable devices and burning MP3 CDs for my car MP3/CD player. (Using some other program works better than trying to import the files from the handheld to the actual library). In MC15 I have a small library that imports only the converted files and the playlists.

[schmoose]

reviving an old topic, but in case anyone is interested, you can use qaac in combination with dbpoweramp to convert to aac and also embed album art from the "folder.jpg" file in the source file directory.

in the above photo, make sure Filename is the path to CoreConverter.exe and to tick "Use source file as-is". For example:

Filename: C:\Program Files (x86)\Illustrate\dBpoweramp\CoreConverter.exe

Parameters:

Code: [Select]

-infile=%IN -outfile=%OUT -convert_to="m4a Nero (AAC)" -cli_encoder="C:\Program Files (x86)\Illustrate\dBpoweramp\encoder\m4a qaac\qaac.exe" -cli_cmd="--tvbr 127 --quality 2 --rate keep --ignorelength -o [outfile] -" -dspeffect1="ID Tag Processing= -importart={qt}folder.jpg{qt}"
Extension: m4a
Encoder Supports long filenames [TICKED]
Use source file as-is [TICKED]
Hide command window [TICKED]

[astromo]

Nero AAC

http://www.nero.com/enu/technologies-aac-codec.html

Download the zip package, unzip and place the neroAacEnc.exe file in some folder

These settings are for ~130 kbps VBR:

For info, this is the direct link to the codec pack:
http://ftp6.nero.com/tools/NeroDigitalAudio.zip

[imeric]

For those who would like to use fdk_aac (fdkaac.exe),
here is the line code I use for CVBR 128 kbps:

%IN -b 128000 -o %OUT

EDIT: -S %IN% is not required
Steps below are from dBpoweramp:

VBR Value (-m) Estimated bitrate range (kbps)

-m 1     (64 Kbps) (low-pass 13050 Hz)
-m 2     (80 Kbps) (low-pass 13050 Hz)
-m 3     (96 Kbps) (low-pass 14260 Hz)
-m 4     (144 Kbps) (low-pass 15500 Hz)
-m 5     (224 Kbps) (Full range, no filter)

(CBR) Estimated bitrate range (kbps) + (non specified low-pass filter below is 17000 Hz (-w))

64 kbps      -b 64000
80 kbps      -b 80000
96 kbps      -b 96000
128 kbps      -b 128000
144 kbps      -b 144000
160 kbps      -b 160000
192 kbps      -b 192000
224 kbps      -b 224000 -w 22050
256 kbps      -b 256000 -w 22050
320 kbps      -b 320000 -w 22050
400 kbps      -b 400000 -w 22050
480 kbps      -b 480000 -w 22050
512 kbps      -b 512000 -w 22050

[schmoose]

Updating this thread since dbpoweramp command line has changed. After all these years, the only solution for embedding album art saved as folder.jpg into individual m4a AAC files is still by using dbpoweramp. I use it in combination with qaac so I can use Apple's encoder.

Use Case:
- I have albums in FLAC format on my hard drive. Album art is saved in the same folder as folder.jpg. The individual FLAC files do not have embedded art.
- I want to convert the FLAC files to .m4a AAC files with embedded album art. These will be used on a portable DAP that doesn't pickup folder.jpg from the album folder.
- I want to use Apple's AAC encoder.

Here's the setup:



The command line is too long to be seen in the image. So here's the text version with maximum 600x600 embedded art:

-infile=%IN -outfile=%OUT -convert_to="m4a FDK (AAC)" -cli_encoder="C:\Program Files\dBpoweramp\encoder\m4a qaac\qaac64.exe" -cli_cmd="--tvbr 127 --quality 2 --rate keep --ignorelength -o [outfile] -" -dspeffect1="ID Tag Processing= -importart={qt}Folder.jpg{qt} -maxart={qt}600x600 pixels{qt}"

[imeric]

How did I miss that...Using dBpoweramp INSIDE JRiver...Best of both worlds!!! I'll give this a try thanks for the description schmoose!!!

(I still need dbpoweramp for itunes soundcheck as I want the info in the tags)

[stanzani]

quick question about mono music conversion ino AAC
In case of mono file is it it worth the effort to convert wave files (stereo, CD is always stereo) into mono files first and then encode these files into m4a or the AAC encoders are smart enough to efficiently coding the case where left and right channels? Or, put in another way: re-encode the resulting (stereo) m4a file into mono m4a files using for example audacity+ffmpeg plugin?

thanks