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[JustinChase]

I'm trying to setup a new nested view under Video.  i want to have Formula 1 as a main category here.

I can get it created okay, but it sorts not the way I want, and it doesn't show the information about the video under the thumbnail that I'd like to see.

I can change the information under the thumb okay, but it seems I can only set this globally, and what I want to see for this view is not what I want to see for other views.  Is there a way to set this per view?  I tried messing with templates, but that seems to only affect what is shown on the right side, not under the thumbs.

Also, it doesn't seem to matter what sorting options I select, they have no effect on how the view is actually sorted in theater view.

I remember messing with these views a while ago, and it seems there used to be an option to inherit from parent, but I no longer see this option.  Am I missing it, or was it a victim of the recent surgery?

[glynor]

The sorting works correctly, but sorting is not inherited from the Parent Views in Theater View.  You need to set the sorting explicitly for each view that you create that actually lists files (sorting is irrelevant on parent "container" views).

You set the sorting order in the "bottom part" of the Set rules for file display dialog for the view in question in the Options -> Theater View panel.

[JustinChase]

You set the sorting order in the "bottom part" of the Set rules for file display dialog for the view in question in the Options -> Theater View panel.

but it doesn't sort how I set it up

I Nested a new item under Video, then on the right, under details, I called it Formula 1, then clicked Set rules for file display...

I set Series is Formula1, then under Modify Results, Sort by, I have
Season (a-z)
Episode (a-z)
Name (a-z)

I've tried just Season, just episode, and just name, and they all display the same in theater view

2006, 2005, 2010, 2010, 2010, 2008, 2008, ext...

this is what made me think it might be inheriting from the parent, as I don't see any order to it at all 

is this actually working for you, or were you just suggesting how it should work?

I also tried setting up a new view scheme, then creating a new nested item from that, but it didn't work either.

I figured it was just a glitch from the new ravamp of the system.

[glynor]

It definitely seems to work for me as designed.  What are you trying to sort?  The file listing or something about the year?  I'm confused by your response...  What does this mean?

and they all display the same in theater view

2006, 2005, 2010, 2010, 2010, 2008, 2008, ext...

Describe exactly what your view looks like, including any items added in details, and what specific results you're getting (screenshots would be good).

[Marra]

Are you trying to sort a library field or an expression containing a library field?  I am having trouble with expressions containing date fields.

[JustinChase]

It definitely seems to work for me as designed.  What are you trying to sort?  The file listing or something about the year?  I'm confused by your response...  What does this mean?

Describe exactly what your view looks like, including any items added in details, and what specific results you're getting (screenshots would be good).

Sorry for the confusion.

I nested Formula 1 under Video, like this...


Then I click on "set rules for file display", and pick the criteria and tell it how to sort, like this...


And when I go into Theater View, I see the nested item, and when i select it, it does not sort as I have specified.  the information you see under the thumbs is [Season]-[Episode]-[Places]-[Name], yet it's not sorted by Season

[JustinChase]

I don't know why the photos are not showing up, they are in pix01.  I uploaded them as png images, and they didn't show, then as jpg, and they still don't show up, not sure why.

here is the link to the gallery, sorry.

http://pix01.com/jr%408UhV

[glynor]

The second screenshot didn't actually show what I needed to see.  Select the "Formula1" view you made, then take the screenshot, so that I can see the details of the view.  Your screenshot only shows the details for the "Audio" view, which isn't very helpful.

Also, you're sorting by [Season], then [Episode], then [Name]... How are these files tagged?  What is in the [Season] field?  What is in the [Episode] field?  You said it is showing that info in the Caption on Theater View, but I'm not sure it is... Do you have your caption for ALL of Theater View set up to show [Season]-[Episode]-[Places]-[Name]?  You do this via Tools -> Options -> Theater View -> Advanced -> File Captions.  Does this setting list that, or something else?  You can't set the Caption differently for different views or Media Types (currently, hopefully this changes), so if this was the case, your Audio files would also show captions including [Season]-[Episode]-[Places]-[Name]...

And, to make sure we understand what is going on, can you show us a screenshot of MC in Standard View showing these files in Details mode with the same sorting settings?

[JustinChase]

The second screenshot didn't actually show what I needed to see.  Select the "Formula1" view you made, then take the screenshot, so that I can see the details of the view.  Your screenshot only shows the details for the "Audio" view, which isn't very helpful.

Also, you're sorting by [Season], then [Episode], then [Name]... How are these files tagged?  What is in the [Season] field?  What is in the [Episode] field?  You said it is showing that info in the Caption on Theater View, but I'm not sure it is... Do you have your caption for ALL of Theater View set up to show [Season]-[Episode]-[Places]-[Name]?  You do this via Tools -> Options -> Theater View -> Advanced -> File Captions.  Does this setting list that, or something else?  You can't set the Caption differently for different views or Media Types (currently, hopefully this changes), so if this was the case, your Audio files would also show captions including [Season]-[Episode]-[Places]-[Name]...

And, to make sure we understand what is going on, can you show us a screenshot of MC in Standard View showing these files in Details mode with the same sorting settings?

RE: wrong view, showing the audio settings, sorry, I thought I overwrote that when I realized it did that; whoops.

I'm at work right now, and pix01 is filtered here, so I can't search but the title of the gallery is view settings, and there are 2 of them.  The first was the png files, which should show the Formula 1 sorting settings; if you care to look for it.  if not, no problem, I'll find it when I get home and post again.

Season and Episode are both number fields  Season is 4 digit year, Episode is 2 digits.

the files are named #-description (1-PreQualifying or 4-Race for example)

so what you're seeing in the theater view shot is Season(2010)-Episode(01)-Name(4-Race), but as you can see, the season is not in order in the display, which is the "issue" I'm having.

Yes, I have the entire Theater View set to display this information as the caption for all thumbs (I prefer to set this per view, not all of theater view, but one thing at a time )

I hope that makes more sense.

I'll post the Standard View showing the details when I get home also.

thanks again for taking a look and helping

[JustinChase]

I just realized I still have the email on my phone, so I can give the address of the first gallery, which should show the correct sorting settings for the new Formula 1 view.

http://pix01.com/ir%40srWI

Hopefully that works, I can't test here

[glynor]

I just realized I still have the email on my phone, so I can give the address of the first gallery, which should show the correct sorting settings for the new Formula 1 view.

http://pix01.com/ir%40srWI

Hopefully that works, I can't test here

Worked fine.  That actually solved my question, and I have an answer for you.  It relates to this:

The sorting works correctly, but sorting is not inherited from the Parent Views in Theater View.  You need to set the sorting explicitly for each view that you create that actually lists files (sorting is irrelevant on parent "container" views).

The "Formula1" View you created is a "Container" view (one that appears on the Second Roller Bar of the Home screen of Theater View).  These views are identifiable because you cannot add any filtering Fields or Expressions to the Details section.  Sorting does not work on these Container Views.  They are designed only to "hold" other views.

So, for example, using the stock Theater View setup, here is the Movies "container" view setup:


click to enlarge

You CANNOT apply sorting to the type of View shown above.  The idea of these types of views is that they are supposed to act as a "container" for other sub-views.  An example of a stock sub-view is the Video/Movies/Genre view, which looks like this:


click to enlarge

See how this one is different in that you can add fields to it in the Details section?  These are the only views where sorting applies, and they are the ones you need to use to have the "bottom modify search" filters to work.  Now, if you only want ONE sub-view, that's fine, but there has to be AT LEAST one in order to apply sorting.

So, in your case, you'd want to add another view BELOW "Formula1" in your setup, and add the filters to that one.

Now, that doesn't bring up the point of why you'd ever want to set your library up that way, where you're defining separate and distinct views for each individual show.  You can, but you probably shouldn't do it that way.  It would usually be much better to have a top-level "TV Shows" view, and then a sub-view for "Series" that has the [Series] and [Season] fields added to the Details section.  Then you could use that one view to browse through ALL of your series automatically without having to define new specialty views for each of them.  The only exception might be if you have a "special series" that needs different sorting or to include different categories than the regular shows, I suppose.

[glynor]

The "Formula1" View you created is a "Container" view (one that appears on the Second Roller Bar of the Home screen of Theater View).  These views are identifiable because you cannot add any filtering Fields or Expressions to the Details section.  Sorting does not work on these Container Views.  They are designed only to "hold" other views.

It is arguable that this should be changed.  I think (if I'm remembering correctly), in the original builds, these "Container Views" wouldn't actually even LIST any matching files so you wouldn't have been able to use one in this way (because instead of not filtering correctly, it would have just shown up empty when you opened it in Theater View).

Since that was changed, perhaps the modify/sorting section should be enabled.  I suspect the reason it is not is that then there would be inheritance issues, so it was easier just to ignore it completely.  However, it should really be modified so that either:

1) You CAN use the modify/sort settings on these types of views, and there is some sort of decision on inheritance (either they just aren't inherited by any "child" views, or they always are inherited, but that could lead to collision issues).

2) The Modify Results section of the "Set rules" dialog is just greyed out for these types of views.

One or the other would be best.  As it is, it stinks that it LETS you define these types of Modification Rules, and then ignores them.

[JustinChase]

Thanks for the explanation.

My intention was just to put this as a "top level" option under Videos, and not have to click something, then something else just to see this series.

It sounds like I need to just put/move it under TV Series and accept the second click as necessary.  not a big deal really, I just figured since it let me define sorting, it might have been a bug.

I still hope for the ability to define the thumb captions for each view separately, as this setting clearly will not work well for other thumbs in other sections, and without this information, I'll just get a lot of thumbs with 4-Race, but not know which race it is.

I know it's just been completely revamped, so hopefully there will continue to be some more development here.

thanks again.

[glynor]

My intention was just to put this as a "top level" option under Videos, and not have to click something, then something else just to see this series.

It sounds like I need to just put/move it under TV Series and accept the second click as necessary.  not a big deal really, I just figured since it let me define sorting, it might have been a bug.

No, actually... You CAN do this.  You just need to add a second "dummy" view underneath your "Formula1" one (or actually, the original Formula1 view would be the "dummy" one).  Add all of your filters to this second view.  The "child views" show up in the secondary roller, when you open them.  If there aren't any others, it doesn't matter, it'll still work and take you straight there.

So, for example, make yours like this:

Video -> Formula1 -> Formula1

Add all of your filters to the SECOND Formula1 view, and it will work like you want it to.  Now, a better USE for these child views is to actually use them for different possible sortings.  So what I'd probably do in your shoes is something like this:

Video ->
        Formula1 (add your [Series] = Formula1 to this one) ->
                     Formula1 By Season (sort this one like you had your sorting described above)
                     Formula1 By Date (use [Date Imported]-d or [Date Recorded]-d as the sorting on this one))

That way, you'd have two choices in this Formula1 view, one sorted "normally" (the first) and the second sorted with the newest stuff up top (the second).  That way, when you navigate to this, you can quickly switch how you want this view sorted.

That's what I'm using many of my "child" views for:  different sortings or re-filterings of a "parent view's" filter.  So the same types of files are shown, but the secondary roller allows for different sortings and different List Styles.  You can do all sorts of awesome stuff... So, you could have a sub-view called "Unwatched" that filters out [Number Plays] > 0 and sorts the oldest one to the top (so if you just want to go in and watch the oldest unwatched episode, you switch the secondary roller in the view to this special "unwatched mode" and always pick the top one in the list).

[rick.ca]

There's also a fundamental choice to be made in creating views for anything like this. Having established what files are to be included (e.g., Rules for file display that include only Formula 1 videos), you then have the choice of organizing them by Category (added under "Details") or adding child views (as glynor has described). In this case, the obvious category to add would be Season, but it could also include Year, Track (or Place or Country), etc.—depending on how the files are tagged and how you might want to select them.

I normally include some of both as separate child views. The one I use most often will minimize the number of categories used. If I know what I want (e.g., recent TV Shows), I don't want to mess with unnecessary choices. But if there are many files, I'll have another view that includes a set of categories allowing for a useful "drill-down" to whatever I might want to find. (There's nothing special about this—it's no different than selecting music by Genre - Artist - Album.) A view with few or no categories might be useful for a view that excludes watched video, while one with categories might be necessary for one that includes a much greater number of all video. And in that case, the same fundamental choice remains. You can add a "Watched/Not watched" category (using an expression to check [Last Played]), or make separate child views.

[JustinChase]

Thank you both for the input.  I'm still very confused, mainly because I'm not sure how I really *want* to set this all up, but also because I think I did as Glynor suggested, but nothing really changed.

specifically, I added/nested another item under Formula 1, like this

I clicked on Formula 1 under Items to Show, clicked on Add..., Selected Library Item from Standard View,  and selected the view I created where I filtered and sorted (which I have verified works correctly).  It automatically named it Formula 1, since that's what it's called in that view.  It showed the categories correctly, and I verified the sorting is still correct.

I tested in theater view, and when I click Video, Formula 1, it shows exactly like it did before, not sorted, and no other options in the second top roller thing whatever it's called.

I figured that having both named Formula 1 might be a problem, so I renamed the new, nested item Testing and checked again.  Now that is the name that shows along the second roller thing, instead of Formula 1, but nothing else changed.

I added another item, also created from a the same standard view, but called it Formula 1 test, and checked again

Now when I click Formula 1 on the right, under video, I can see Testing along the top roller, with both Formula 1 test and testing showing below that.  clicking on either changes the title on the top roller, but neither has an affect on the actual display of the files.  both selections display exactly the same as before I added either one of them, i.e. not sorted.

At this point I'm not even really asking for help to fix this, I'm going to give up, because frankly I'm tired of spending all of my free time trying to set MC up, and really need to spend my time on other things for a while.

I'm just reporting back that either I'm an idiot (most likely), or this just isn't working properly.

I assume that since rick.ca said he has 67 views to set up, he would have reported a problem if it was really broken, so that leave me as an idiot.

Oh well, not the first time

thanks again for trying to help, and maybe I'll come back to this at some point in the future, but for now, for me, Theater View is not gonna work.  such is life

[rick.ca]

I assume that since rick.ca said he has 67 views to set up, he would have reported a problem if it was really broken, so that leave me as an idiot.

Having 67 views indicates uncontrolled obsession, not genius. 

Your problem is attempting to use the Add Library item from Standard View. That's a special function that can be handy if it works, but it only creates a static version of the Standard View view that can't be changed. How it will behave is somewhat unpredictable because the architecture of Standard View views are not identical to Theatre View views. Add a Library item instead, and (regardless of what you've got in Standard View) configure a new view for Theatre View.

Warning: In some situations (I don't recall exactly) the action of adding a Library item won't put it where it where you expect it should go. If this happens, just move it around (including nesting and unnesting) until it appears where you want it.

[Daydream]

I'm sitting here, reading this, and I'm about to hit the Advil bottle. And I do understand what you're talking about.

[JustinChase]

I'm sitting here, reading this, and I'm about to hit the Advil bottle. And I do understand what you're talking about.

hehe, yeah, it doesn't help that I've either got a cold, or allergies (from the lack of rain for the last several months?) that have been kicking my a$$ for the last week or so

rick, that was that was the problem.  I created a library item and it's now working!!

I have to update/change some of how I was tagging to take better advantage of this, but I've got 3 child views that give me what I was wanting.  I didn't go back and re-read your prior to last post, which really confused me about categories vs child folders (or something), so once I feel better, I'll re-read that and see if your logic there improves this, but for now, I can pick country, year/season or event (race/qualifying) as my first selection, then it will give me the other choices as the next to select.

I am REALLY happy to see that if there is only one option in the next choice it would normally offer me, it just skips the "choice", very nice!

thanks again to both of you

PS: now that I see how this is working, and what I can do with it, I don't need to change the display under the thumb, since by making my selections with categories/fields, when it's time to select a file, I only need to see the name, since I've already selected the rest:  BONUS

[rick.ca]

...I don't need to change the display under the thumb, since by making my selections with categories/fields, when it's time to select a file, I only need to see the name, since I've already selected the rest.

That's nice, but if you ever do need to change the form of a caption to suit the circumstance, it is possible—even though there's only one global setting for it. That setting can be an expression, so it can be a conditional one: If(Situation1, Label1, If(Situation2, Label2, If(Situation3, Label3, [Name]))). For example, if Name worked everywhere but for your Formula 1 videos where you really wanted, say, "City: Name," you would set the caption to If(IsEqual([Series], Formula1), [Place]: [Name], [Name]).

It does get rather cumbersome if you require many different labels, so it would be better if a label could be specified with the view—which would override the global setting.

[glynor]

Thanks, Rick.  Came to explain exactly this.

[flac.rules]

I am also struggling abit with this sorting. I am a bit confused when it comes to have many "sublevels" i get in theatre view. Even if all my expressions are on the the "same level", not nested (like seasons is nested under program in the screen shot). Its still ordered as levels and sublevels in the theatre view. (hope that was more or less understandable). I have the following view:

http://multimaskin.elvis133.operaunite.com/photo_sharing/content/settings.PNG/original

I have set the name as the same as the expressions, for clarity.

The first 3 levels work fine. (Series info, then season, then episode), however MC seems to add another level below that again, with the episode name and the description of the episode form the sidecar-file. I want to not have that fourth level, and get the description of the episode at the level I have created (Season x Episode - Name). How can i do this?

[rick.ca]

I want to not have that fourth level, and get the description of the episode at the level I have created (Season x Episode - Name). How can i do this?

The "Details" section of the configuration is for specifying Categories—which behave like folders. Specify [Series] for a list of series, [Season] for a list of seasons. Stop there. Selecting a season will result in a file list of episodes. If you specify [Episode] as a category, your going to get one episode in each category.

You can specify a Category using an expression, but most of the time (and in this case) a regular "Library field" Category will do.

[flac.rules]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I think i understand now. However another problem presents itself, if i stop there, i just get the name of the episode, not the season and episode number as I would like too. It seems like i can write "[Season] x [Episode] - [Name]", in the Theatre View -advance "file caption" option. but i wont that to show in other things than TV-series, like movies or podcasts.

[rick.ca]

...if you ever do need to change the form of a caption to suit the circumstance, it is possible—even though there's only one global setting for it. That setting can be an expression, so it can be a conditional one: If(Situation1, Label1, If(Situation2, Label2, If(Situation3, Label3, [Name]))). For example, if Name worked everywhere but for your Formula 1 videos where you really wanted, say, "City: Name," you would set the caption to If(IsEqual([Series], Formula1), [Place]: [Name], [Name]).

In this case: If(IsEqual([Media Sub Type], TV Show), [Season] x [Episode] - [Name], [Name]).

[flac.rules]

Ah, ok, That actually was pretty enlightening. Now I am beginning to understand why the views in MC are so powerful.

[glynor]

Another way to do this (and the way I think I'm going to implement it when I get home) is to create a custom library field called "Caption" or something (I didn't look, that one may already exist as a standard field), and then put your complex If(IsEqual) expression in there.  Then just set the Theater View Caption setting to [Caption].

The editor for creating Expression-based fields is much nicer than the simple one in Options -> Theater View -> Advanced, because you get access to the Expression Editor.

PS. I checked, and [Caption] is an existing stock field, so you'd have to use something else like [Theater Caption] or something.

[rick.ca]

Another way to do this...is to create a custom library field called "Theater Caption" or something...

Yes, that works fine, and access to the Expression Editor is almost essential for anything not short and simple. What I normally do, however, is create and test the expression in an Expression Column. I don't have much of an aptitude for coding, so I need to see immediate results and use trial and error. When I've got it right, I just copy the expression to the caption setting.

Both methods, however, lack the convenience of being able to specify a caption expression with each view. Even if I know what I'm doing at the time, I hate having to decipher my own complex expression when it comes time to make some minor change to accommodate something new. It would be so much easier to have one default caption expression (i.e., the existing one), and the option of overriding it with one attached to the view.