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Author Topic: Theater View Issues  (Read 4294 times)

Mr ChriZ

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Theater View Issues
« on: May 18, 2011, 01:46:12 am »

I'm a little lost as to how to reset up my drill down views in Theater view:

I've set it up as I think it should look, but it's just showing everything all mixed in together...

rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2011, 03:33:19 am »

What are you trying to do with the "Episode/Name" category? If you just remove that, you should get a list of Series, select one for a list of Seasons (if there's more than one), and then a list of files—which should be a season of episodes.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2011, 07:47:31 am »

I've removed Episode/Name and it's made no difference

rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2011, 03:17:29 pm »

Have the files been properly tagged with [Series] and [Season]?
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2011, 05:26:12 pm »

Yes I use an identical view scheme in standard view no problem at all - see attached screenshot.

glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2011, 06:09:32 pm »

Take a look at this thread:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64038.0

It may be the configuration of the Video "parent" view that is causing this issue.
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rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2011, 08:22:37 pm »

I use an identical view scheme in standard view no problem at all - see attached screenshot.

I don't know what we're supposed to make of this. You've posted a Standard "Category" view at the Series level, and a Theatre View view at the File List level. The latter appears to include episodes from a variety of series—and thus your assertion "it's just showing everything all mixed in together." But that's exactly what it should show if you selected "All Series" and "All Seasons" when you drilled-down. You do have "Display 'All' as a choice" selected. If you want to do that—to have the option of displaying the episodes of all series in one file list—the list will honour the "Sort by" modification set in the view's Rules for file display.
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audioqueso

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2011, 08:25:51 pm »

Add this rule to the folder.  Sort > A to Z > Filename (path)
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 01:18:06 am »

I've tried unticking display all and sorting A-Z but still no drill down  :-\

Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 01:23:46 am »

I don't know what we're supposed to make of this. You've posted a Standard "Category" view at the Series level, and a Theatre View view at the File List level. The latter appears to include episodes from a variety of series—and thus your assertion "it's just showing everything all mixed in together." But that's exactly what it should show if you selected "All Series" and "All Seasons" when you drilled-down. You do have "Display 'All' as a choice" selected. If you want to do that—to have the option of displaying the episodes of all series in one file list—the list will honour the "Sort by" modification set in the view's Rules for file display.

But I never drilled down.  As soon as I open the view in Theater View that's what I'm presented with.  I've never selected 'all series' or 'all seasons', and there's no way to drill back out as far as I can see.

This used to work fine.  I've been using it for years.  It was only after the changes where we had  to recreate the views that I've not been able to make it work.

Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 01:37:04 am »

Attached the Video view settings.  I think this is right?

rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 03:09:18 am »

Sorry, I should have asked this first...Is your "TV Series" view a stock view? If it is, I have no way of knowing if it might be "special" in some way, and I should not be offering advice about how to configure it. Although the configuration system is not particularly user-friendly, I have no difficulty in creating views from scratch that do exactly what I want them to do. And I'm confident I could explain it to anyone who is clear about what they want. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the stock video views—or the wacky [Media Sub Type]-guessing system they rely on—are doing. Those who use these stock views will have to rely on JRiver or others with the patience to figure them out.

Assuming your files are properly tagged with [Series], [Season] and [Episode], configuring a view for series is not difficult...

  • Set the Rules for file display to restrict the files to series. For example:
    • [Series] is not empty, or
    • [Media Type] is [Video] and
    • [Filename (path)] starts with "D:\Video\Series," or
    • Whatever works

  • Add the Categories you would like to make selections with. For example:
    • [Series] (I prefer "[Series] ([Year] - [Ended])") and
    • [Season] (which will be ignored if there's only one)

That's it. A view like this might be the only view for Series under Video, or it may be a child of a Series group which also includes view like Pending (i.e., between seasons), Recently Imported and/or Released, and Ended.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2011, 12:53:56 pm »

Thanks for your help Rick, but to me the whole system seems a bit off.
I can't see that I've done anything differently to your instructions.

I've uploaded a short video here which shows my standard view and my attempt to import my standard view to theater view.
I'm fairly sure it's not supposed to work like this.

A few things to note in the video:
-I click the reset button on the views which actually fails to work correctly and leaves spaces.
-I've highlighted my original standard view working correctly and you can see how it's constructed.  It's not a complex view.
-TV Series when Added does not appear under video which is highlighted, but above it which seems wrong?
-TV Series gets imported two different ways performing the same procedure?!

http://uppit.com/37w6ct932xd7/lost.rar

glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2011, 01:22:21 pm »

I did find when playing with it that sometimes you need to reset the views twice to get it right.  Watching your video now.
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glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 01:53:06 pm »

Okay... I can see immediately that what you are trying to do won't work.  First off, reset the views twice so that you are starting with a known-working starting position.

Now, select the stock Video view.  See how it says Type = Secondary roller?  That should really be relabeled "Show Child Views as" rather than "Type" because that's what it does.  It chooses how the views on the next level down work.  These new "Secondary Roller" views (the ones under Video in the default Theater View setup) should not be imported from Standard View.  They can't contain "categories" (the fields shown in the Details section of the Theater View setup dialog), as you can see because that panel isn't even shown (you just get the "Set rules" button but no list control to add the fields).  With a "Show Child Views/Type" parent view set to Secondary Roller, you effectively MUST have three "levels" of views.  The "middle" view (the one that appears on the secondary roller) should contain ONLY filters that determine what files are viewable by child views.  Any sorting you apply here is ignored.  If you import views from Standard View here, they seem to come in half-way baked (if you actually take them and re-nest them up a level, they become fully functional again, so those categories they contain are actually preserved, but broken).

So... The way this will work is to do it like this:

1. Select Video in the Theater View setup panel.
2. Click the Add button and choose Library Item.  This will create a new view just above the Video view (annoying).
3. Select this new view, and click Move Down, then Nest.  Then you have to manually move it back up above all of the stock stuff to get it where you want it (also annoying and fiddly).
4. Select this new view, and rename it "TV Shows" if that's what you want it called.
5. Click Set Rules for file display and add any filters you want.  This will probably be simply [Media Type]=Video and then [Media Sub Type]=TV Shows,  This will work if you want it to only show files manually tagged as such.  If you want it to use the new "Smart Logic" (which can actually work well in some circumstances), then you use this instead (enter it from the Import/Export dialog): [=MediaSubType()]=[TV Show]
6. Now, select TV Shows in the list (if it isn't already) and click the Add button again.  Now, you can bring in a view from Standard View here.  So, find and choose your TV Shows view.
7. I'd recommend against calling it the same thing.  The new Theater View system seems to not like it when you have two views called the same exact thing.  I called mine "Series".  When you add two views with the identical name, they get messed up (at least in my testing it appears to work that way).  It is even possible that it'll get messed up if they are called the same thing even for a minute, so you might have to name your view created in step 2 something else temporarily until you can get this imported one renamed.  This is what causes the "blank lines" issue you're seeing.  I reported it in the beta thread, but no one responded.
8. Now, open the Set rules button.  You don't need all of the filters, because you already have them in the parent view and they're inherited, so remove them all.  You can use the "Modify Results" section here though, so you can add sorting rules.

If you follow this, it should work.

Now, the nice thing about the new system is that you can have more than one TV Shows view, and quick switch between them.  I have one configured basically just like I described above, but I then added a second view next to "Series" called "New Shows" which uses the same filters (so it shows only TV Shows), but which has no fields added to the Details section, and which sorts the newest stuff to the top (and is in List view mode).  Now, I can select "TV Shows" from the front page, and it'll open and show my Series view.  But if I just want to quickly get to something that JUST AIRED, I can jump up to the secondary roller and switch over to the "New Shows" view and there is all my new stuff.  I like to use the [=MediaSubType()]=[TV Show] for this one, because then it'll show things that I haven't even tagged yet too (though then you can't add the filter to the "TV Shows" view in the step above).
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glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2011, 02:03:15 pm »

I actually even have a third one called "All Series (includes External)" below the "New Shows" view.  My main "Series" view filters out shows that are tagged with [Offline]=1.  I set that tag on any files that I move off to removable disks.  They are imported into the library, but hidden from normal views.  I do this when I have a nice series that I want to keep, but if we've already seen them all and I just want to keep it for "the future".

This is handy though so that if I plug in that external drive, I can switch to the "All Series (includes External)" view and it looks identical to my main Series view, except that it really shows EVERYTHING in the library, including stuff that you might not be able to play without the proper drive plugged in.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2011, 02:25:57 pm »

 :-\

http://up.ht/jaJExB

Still the same  ?
Did I miss something?

I've got to nip out... will be back in a few hours

glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 02:38:02 pm »

Okay... Now I think we're getting closer.

What is with the "Episode/Name" and "Disc #" fields you have added to that TV Series view you're bringing over from Standard View?  That doesn't make a lot of sense...  Keep in mind, the fields added to Details in Theater View's setup are for FOLDER-LIKE drill-down views.  This is NOT how you make Theater View show the names of files in a particular manner.  This creates the Theater View equivalent to Panes in Standard View.  You wouldn't want a Pane of the [Name] tag, or the [Episode] tag.  That would be useless... It would just list the name of every episode.

Theater View works the same way.  I suspect these are also messing it up (in addition to the double-adding from Standard View you were doing before).  Like I said, if you import from Standard View, those categories DO actually apply, even if you can't see them, and they're all broken, so ignore what you tried before.  Keep everything like you now have it (as you set it in the second movie), and remove those (both "Episode/name" and "Disc #") from Details and see how it works then.  Please keep in mind, you may need to close and re-open the view to have it reflect new changes.

And, if you could, explain why you had those two fields added in the first place.
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glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 02:40:39 pm »

PS.  If you need to customize how the files themselves are listed in Theater View, you do that by modifying the "File Caption" setting in Options -> Theater View -> Advanced.

You can only set one global caption that is used for all files shown in Theater View everywhere.  If you want to show one style of caption for TV Shows, and another for Movies, and a third for Music, there is a way.  Just ask.
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rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 03:58:12 pm »

Did I miss something?

You certainly did—the one critical point that has been the cause of all your problems from the start. Theatre View views are fundamentally different than Standard View views. The "feature" that allows you to add a view from Standard view only adds static representation of that view. That's handy if it happens to work and you never need to change it. It's clearly of no use in this situation.

I stand by what I said before. Despite the clumsy interface, it's not difficult to create a view that does whatever you want. It's unfortunate the developers don't seem to believe users are up to the task, and have therefore thrown in red herrings like stock views and dangerously misleading functions like Add library item from Standard View. You've provided an excellent demonstration of why that approach is flawed. We'd be much better off had development efforts gone into making the configuration interface less flaky and easier to use.
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Matt

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2011, 04:27:58 pm »

I don't use the 'Add view from Standard View' stuff, so would be fine with it being removed.

However, this might be the first feature removal request I've ever seen :P

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glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2011, 04:42:04 pm »

I don't use the 'Add view from Standard View' stuff, so would be fine with it being removed.

However, this might be the first feature removal request I've ever seen :P

I was one of the people who wanted some way to move views from Standard View originally.  However, I don't know that it is really necessary anymore for two reasons:

1. Theater View has advanced to the point where the view setups have diverged substantially, and it usually does make more sense to recreate them rather than try to import them.
2. The Set Rules for File Display tool has an import/export wizard now.  It didn't originally.  Importing these is the "hard part" often, not defining the View details section.

What I'd MUCH rather have is a way to copy/paste views inside the Theater View setup (I often felt like I was recreating the wheel over and over again), and a way to copy these Views over to the Options -> Media Network -> Advanced -> Customize Views section.  I want Theater View and the WebRemote/WebPlay system to essentially match, and duplicating everything a second time is annoying.  Keeping future changes in sync is even more annoying.  Every time I use WebRemote, I end up grumping that something isn't set up "right" anymore, because something in Theater View has changed, and I need to re-create it.  Basically, I now use the Add From Standard View as a proxy to accomplish these tasks.  I have a special "folder" in Standard View where I keep a couple of useful "templates" for configuring Theater View and the Media Network views, so that I don't have to manually recreate things as often.  I don't actually Add from Standard Views that I actually USE in Standard View.

I'm also not real sure that the entire dialog is designed in the best possible way.  It is very fiddly to nest items and to move views up and down.  A real tree-style control seems like it might be a better fit, and you could collapse sections that you don't want to "see" right then while you are setting things up.
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rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2011, 04:50:44 pm »

However, this might be the first feature removal request I've ever seen

I didn't suggest it should be removed. I said it's misleading. This thread couldn't be a better demonstration of that. Like many things in the configuration interface, it suffers from vague terminology that has never been explained. I'd suggest a better name, but I'm still not sure exactly what it does, where it works and where it doesn't. If I'm correct in assuming it's sort of a static, unchangeable link to a Standard View view, maybe Add snapshot of Library item from Standard View. If most would just ask, "what the heck does that mean?," that would be a huge improvement over the mistaken assumption they're making now. ;D
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glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2011, 04:52:35 pm »

If I'm correct in assuming it's sort of a static, unchangeable link to a Standard View view

No.  It just imports the choices from the view in Standard View and creates a duplicate in Theater View.  The two are never linked in any way.
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glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2011, 04:58:09 pm »

So, for example:

If I Add a Library Item from Standard View, and choose Advanced (All Files) -> Theater View Templates -> New Imports Template, it creates a new view in Theater View called "New Imports Template", pre-fills the "Details" to match my selected Panes from Standard View, and pre-fills the "Set Rules" dialog with the same rules as exist in that Standard View (but does not recreate inheritance, so if you are relying on multi-level view inheritance for filtering in Standard View, this doesn't work).

If I then DELETE that view from Standard View, my new Theater View is unaffected.
If I modify the Theater View after importing it, the Standard View template is unaffected.

It is just a one-time duplication, very similar to dragging-dropping a Standard View and creating a copy.  I STRONGLY recommend that anyone who uses this feature, only "imports" views from Standard View that are set up with Panes-and-Details style, not the Tiles or Thumbnails or any of the other modes, or you'll get confused.

It is very handy if you have complex setups in Theater View/Media Network, and you want to make Templates.  In the past, it was the only way to import complex "Set Rules" rules as well, because we didn't have the Import/Export button, so you had to reinvent the wheel each time.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2011, 05:11:38 pm »

http://up.ht/jwB5Oz

Removed Episode/Name.  Still not the cause of my troubles though me thinks...

rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2011, 05:13:38 pm »

No.  It just imports the choices from the view in Standard View and creates a duplicate in Theater View.  The two are never linked in any way.

Perhaps I could have chosen a better word than "link" (although what you see in it's menu are "links" in the common sense of the word), but what did you think I meant by "static" and "unchanging"? ::)

Quote
If I Add a Library Item from Standard View, and choose Advanced (All Files) -> Theater View Templates -> New Imports Template, it creates a new view in Theater View called "New Imports Template", pre-fills the "Details" to match my selected Panes from Standard View, and pre-fills the "Set Rules" dialog with the same rules as exist in that Standard View (but does not recreate inheritance, so if you are relying on multi-level view inheritance for filtering in Standard View, this doesn't work).

Thanks. This is a useful clarification.

Quote
It is just a one-time duplication, very similar to dragging-dropping a Standard View and creating a copy.

So maybe Copy settings of Library item from Standard View would be a better description. "Copy settings" doesn't imply a link or suggest the settings will be complete or functional in the Theatre View location they're copied to. To hit the idea home, there could be a confirmation message (with a "do not show again" option) the settings copied may need to be revised to achieve the desired results in Theatre View.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2011, 05:24:30 pm »

OK I have a conclusion

The "Add Library Item from Standard View" option seems to be what is breaking things.  I've always understood what this feature is supposed to do.  

If I use this feature then no matter what I do it causes the strange effects seen in the videos I have uploaded.
If I start from scratch then the view works as expected.  :)
Even if I make the imported view identical to the from scratch view it continues to not work.

I have to admit I've no idea why you'd want different views in theater view to standard view.  That makes no sense to me.  Unless you just like creating views or something?

Anyhow thanks for everyone's help... that will get me up and going..

rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2011, 06:00:59 pm »

Quote
Even if I make the resultant view identical it doesn't work.

We should probably try to figure out why this is so. If true, it suggests glynor's assertion the function effectively (although not necessarily completely) copies the settings is false. Maybe Matt can just confirm one way or the other. If it can't be used to do so reliably, then it probably should just be removed. As you should now know, a fully functional view can be created from scratch in about two minutes.

Quote
I have to admit I've no idea why you'd want different views in theater view to standard view.  That makes no sense to me.  Unless you just like creating views or something?

As I said before, Theatre View and Standard View don't work or present views in the same way. It makes no sense to assume one should work in the other. I don't think it would be a good idea to cripple Theatre View for the sake of not having to bother configuring it.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2011, 06:22:12 pm »

Presumably these views are stored somewhere.  Is it a textfile that's readable?
If so I can compare them.

rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2011, 06:54:24 pm »

view tree (theater view).jmd is text, but good luck in making any sense of it. I suppose it might be possible to isolate a difference, and then deduce what that means. :-\
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glynor

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2011, 07:11:57 pm »

It may be broken now.  I haven't used the function since the new changes were made.  I wanted to do everything from scratch to test the new system, and I also wanted to rethink my whole Theater View system (so my existing templates weren't right anyhow).

Perhaps I could have chosen a better word than "link" (although what you see in it's menu are "links" in the common sense of the word), but what did you think I meant by "static" and "unchanging"? ::)

I honestly wasn't sure, it confused me.  The term "link" indicated a lasting connection between the two views in my mind.  I thought by "static" you may have meant something like the difference between a soft link (symlink) and a hard link.  This was neither.  It is supposed to be a way to copy the relevant settings from a Standard View to a new view in Theater View.

That IS how it worked before the changes.  I used it often, but not since.
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rick.ca

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Re: Theater View Issues
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2011, 09:04:38 pm »

Quote
It may be broken now.

I just tested it. It is broken—in a nasty way. The settings copied look okay in the configuration, but the resulting view is broken.
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