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[Matt]

MC16.0.136 introduces a JRiver subtitle engine.

Using the JRiver Subtitle Engine has several advantages:

• Higher drawing quality than other existing solutions
• Support for a wide range of formats
• Works with LAV CUVID
• Works with madVR exclusive using madshi's custom overlay rendering system
• Works with conversion for Android phones (Gizmo) and DLNA devices

Here are two 100% crops of a Blu-ray showing subtitles with both the current ffdshow system, and with the new JRiver system.  Notice the sharpness of the subtitles and the colored ghosting around the edges of the ffdshow version.

ffdshow subtitles: http://files.jriver.com/images/subtitles_ffdshow.png

New JRiver subtitles: http://files.jriver.com/images/subtitles_jriver.png

More technical details follow.

[Matt]

This describes the current capabilities of the JRiver subtitle engine.

Supported Embedded Subtitle Formats

• PGS subtitles (used by Blu-ray)
• EVOB subtitles (used by HD-DVD, etc.)
• VOB subtitles (used by DVD)
• SSA / ASS subtitles (used by MKV, etc.) [basic support; more features at a later date]
• Text subtitles (used in MKV, etc.)

.

Supported Sidecar Subtitle Formats

• SRT
• IDX+SUB (VOB format)
• SUB (MicroDVD format)

.

Supported Video Decoders

• Works with all video decoders

.

Supported Renderers

• madVR (uses custom madVR overlay system so that subtitles work nicely with exclusive mode)
• EVR
• VMR 9

.

Render Quality

• madVR: pixel-perfect rendering
• EVR: pixel-perfect rendering
• VMR 9: rendering can be resized or decimated to a lower quality depending on the source video and hardware

.

Sidecar naming rules
Sidecar subtitle files must start with the same name as the video filename.  They can optionally contain any suffix to describe the language, etc.  Then they must be terminated with a known extension like .srt or .sub.

Another way to say this is that subtitles must use the convention, [Name]*.[Extension] where * is an identifier (or empty).

You can also place the subtitle files in a subfolder.  The folder must be named 'Sub', 'Subs', 'Subtitle' or 'Subtitles'.  The subtitle file itself must use the same naming rule [Name]*.[Extension]

Additional features

• Works with JRiver video encoder for streaming to Android phones with Gizmo, streaming to DLNA devices, etc.
• Supports sizing and shifting (global size option in Options > Video, per-video settings available by right-clicking a playing video and using the 'Subtitle' menu)
• Subtitle selection is remembered between plays (for both internal and sidecar subtitles)

[Matt]

Related Threads

Original announcement:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65269.0

Text based drawing discussion:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65296.0

[Matt]

(reserved)

[mobyfrag]

Waooh, it looks very nice and much more clear
However, the purple tint under the ffdshow subtitles is pretty weird

[CountryBumkin]

I'm not noticing the purple tint. But the JRiver png example is definately sharper.

[jmone]

Let me add my thanks and congrats to those involved in the Dev for how quickly they have implemented it!  Another advantage is that the J River Sub Renderer is not impacted by the FFDSHOW "disappearing" Sub Title Bug.

[arcwest1]

The new subtitle engine is good. But I really need .ass animations and other formatting. Are there any plans for implementing them in the near future? And if not is there any method to use external subtitle filters with MC 17 ?

[Matt]

But I really need .ass animations and other formatting. Are there any plans for implementing them in the near future?

Most formatting should be supported.  Maybe try 17.0.17 or newer since it has this:
Fixed: The v4+ style blocks would not be parsed for some SSA subtitles.

If that's not sufficient, could you pick the two most important formatting or animation features that are missing?  Maybe we could add them.

Thanks.

[arcwest1]

Well, whenever I try to play any mkv file with styled subtitles (.ass), the new engine always forces its font settings on the subtitles . Also when multiple subtitle lines are present at the same frame only only line is displayed.

[Matt]

Well, whenever I try to play any mkv file with styled subtitles (.ass), the new engine always forces its font settings on the subtitles.

v17 allows selecting the subtitle font.

Also when multiple subtitle lines are present at the same frame only only line is displayed.

I can't find a way to know how long a given subtitle should stay visible in the SSA format.  So we show for a few seconds or until the next subtitle is shown.  Do you have any more information on this?

Thanks.

[arcwest1]

Well, here are some screenshots.
The way it is shown by directVobSub and MPC-HC internal engine: http://i.imgur.com/M4PfF.jpg
The way shown by J River internal engine: http://i.imgur.com/KxPuB.jpg
J River is not using the embedded fonts . Is there any way to make it the subtitles show in the proper way.
This is the only thing that is preventing J River from becoming my sole media player.
I would really appreciate any help. Also as a final fallback, is it possible to configure J River to use VobSub for ass/ssa subtitles ?

[sgomes]

I can't find a way to know how long a given subtitle should stay visible in the SSA format.  So we show for a few seconds or until the next subtitle is shown.  Do you have any more information on this?

http://matroska.org/technical/specs/subtitles/ssa.html (and the linked DOC at http://moodub.free.fr/video/ass-specs.doc) should have all the tech specs. Events seem to include a start and an end, which is probably what you need.

[Matt]

Well, here are some screenshots.
The way it is shown by directVobSub and MPC-HC internal engine: http://i.imgur.com/M4PfF.jpg
The way shown by J River internal engine: http://i.imgur.com/KxPuB.jpg
J River is not using the embedded fonts . Is there any way to make it the subtitles show in the proper way.

In a coming build of 17:
NEW: SSA subtitle engine supports the custom fonts for each style used in the SSA (falls back to user selection when a block of text has no font in its style).

If there's also a problem with showing two subtitles at once, could you provide a sample video?

Thanks.

[arcwest1]

Here is a sample video: http://www.filesonic.in/file/11998573/Lia_-_Tori_no_Uta_long_version.mkv.
Well currently the subtitle engine is not showing the embedded fonts. All the subs are not showing. Those that are showing, their display is not stopping at the proper time. Also subtitle position is off. I hope these issues are resolved soon.

[Matt]

Thanks for the sample.

It looks like the show durations are embedded in the stream times, not the subtitle data.

Look for nice handling of this in a coming build of v17.

[Matt]

A coming build of v17 will also have this:
NEW: The subtitle engine supports animated SSA karaoke subtitles.

[arcwest1]

I just installed the latest MC 17 beta and was was impressed with the much better ssa subtitle support. The main subtitles are showing with embedded font and the timing was correct. But there are still problems with the karaoke subtitles. On the test video I have uploaded earlier the animation and position of the karaoke subs are not correct.
J River: http://s7.postimage.org/bkmbvv9jv/J_River.png
Proper: http://s8.postimage.org/738k8q2mt/proper.png
Also in most other videos the subtitles are still messed up. Color and other things like outline effects are not showing. The karaoke subtitles are appearing bundled at the bottom.  I am linking another video in which  the positional problems are prominent: http://goo.gl/vHCou

[Matt]

In a coming build of v17:
Fixed: The vertical position of SSA subtitles was not correct in some cases.
Changed: Added support for vertical text with SSA subtitles.
Changed: SSA subtitle support honors the scale and font size of the styles section (font size is scaled relative to median font size used in the styles section).

There's still some formatting markers I don't understand, like \org.  The SSA spec doesn't do much to clarify these cases.

[arcwest1]

Does this help? : http://goo.gl/anm8T

[alspoll]

I mentioned this also in the MC17 thread as well...

I am noticing that the duration that subtitles appears on screen is not consistent with the time it takes to speak the line. It feels like it is using a standard duration as opposed to the timestamps.

Is there a way to disable the JRiver subtitle renderer and use an external one, ie FFDSHOW or vobsub?

I have a lot of foreign films and it makes watching them very unenjoyable.

Any suggestions?

TIA,

AL

[arcwest1]

The ssa support is quite good now. In the previous beta builds there was a problem that multiple subtitles were not showing up on the same frame. But in version 17.0.62 that is fixed. But can the karaoke animations be improved? Thanks in advance.