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[nwboater]

We keep all our media files and now playlists on our Windows Home Server. My wife is creating several playlists for a party on her Client. Yesterday she had two problems. The changes below showed on her Client but when she closed and then reopened MC they were gone.

1. She deleted several playlists that were no longer needed.

2. I added a Notes Field to her Playlists.

I awoke during the night and remembered reading that deletions from a client are not saved on a server. (Or is it just SOME deletions?). So that's the answer to #1.

For problem #2 I wrote a forum post this morning about it and Jim very promptly answered that I should try adding the Notes field at the Server. The field did stay when I added it from the server.

I gotta say that this is a very cumbersome and Un-WAF way to work on Playlists. Some of the work is done by my Wife on her Client and other work I have to do at the Server.

A Windows Home Server is supposed to be a 'Headless Client', ie no monitor or keyboard is normally attached to the Server. You can 'Remote' into it but I like to be the only one doing this for safety reasons.

All this has me wondering what other functions can only be done at the Server? Can all deletions still only be done there? We are considering using MC for TV. In that application there are many deletions to recordings regularly done. My wife presently does most of that in another Media program. Will we have to go to the Server for those deletions? I sure do hope not!

Besides my questions above I have a big one: Does JRiver consider the way the Client/Server functions as mentioned above to be the way they want it? Or is this something that will be changed/fixed to a more user friendly approach? And if so any idea if this would be done near term, or way down the road?

We both really love MC and appreciate all it's power and flexibility.

Thanks very much.

Rod

[JimH]

Deletions from a client should work IF you're using authentication.  The idea is that a deletion shouldn't be easy to do, and should be done by an "authorized" user.

We'd like to extend the features that work well in this mode, but there are a lot of them that would be nice to have.

[raym]

Deletions from a client should work IF you're using authentication.  The idea is that a deletion shouldn't be easy to do, and should be done by an "authorized" user.

To be clear, deleting playlists from a library server client is not supported at present, even if authentication is enabled.

I agree this would be nice though.

Thanks.

[nwboater]

Jim & raym,

Thanks for the responses. We are using Authentication  and Playlist deletions from the Client do not work.

Do deletions of anything work from a Client? And as I asked above, what about TV recording deletions?

Thanks,
Rod

[raym]

Do deletions of anything work from a Client? And as I asked above, what about TV recording deletions?

Thanks,
Rod

Yes, if authentication is enabled, you should be able to delete tv recordings and other files. View schemes, playlists and some other things can only be removed from the server. Also make sure the account running library server has permission at a filesystem level to delete the files in question.

[nwboater]

Yes, if authentication is enabled, you should be able to delete tv recordings and other files. View schemes, playlists and some other things can only be removed from the server. Also make sure the account running library server has permission at a filesystem level to delete the files in question.

Thanks for the clarification raym. Good point about the permissions.

Apparently there is a bug in TV Recording deletions from a Client that causes that function to not always work. That's from an active thread on TV 'Trying to switch to MC as a PVR'.

Rod

[nwboater]

Found another thing that it appears I can only do from the Server. I'm trying to do Volume Levelling on a Playlist. I select all songs in the Playlist and right click/Library Tools. Analyze Audio is grayed out. Going to Tools/Library Tools Analyze Audio is also grayed out.

I was about to write a post asking for help thinking I may be doing something wrong - this is my first time doing any volume levelling. I then went to the Server to see if it behaved the same. Nope - Analyze Audio was usable.

Server and Clients are all V 141. Authentication is on everywhere.

So it looks like this is another function that can only be done at the Server. Frustrating! Or am I missing something?


Thanks,
Rod

[Vocalpoint]

Server and Clients are all V 141. Authentication is on everywhere. So it looks like this is another function that can only be done at the Server. Frustrating! Or am I missing something?

You are not missing anything. There are a boatload of actions that have to come from the server location - one of the reasons I have decided to completely bail on any "server" based install of MC for now and the future.

JRiver's "server" implementation is way out of context to actually deserve the use of the word "server". Not only is the application not designed in any way to run on a real "server" OS (like Windows Home Server) - the lack of functionality (as you are now finding out) makes it a non-starter for me.

The Media Library/Server component is just a fancy front end to easily share out the files and playlists of a library stored on a client machine. You can get the identical functionality by simple sharing out the media directory on a client (with the library files included) and create a new library using the shared folder as the path.

This is what we do here and I can do any task I wish from any client workstation. Until JR looks into making a true "server" based version of Media Center for specific use on a server based OS - you might as well just stick to file/folder sharing.

VP

[Mr ChriZ]

While there are features I'd probably like to see added to the Library Server I'd draw you to look up the word 'Server'.

According to Google:
Noun
A computer or computer program that manages access to a centralized resource or service in a network

Yup... definitley seems to tick that box?  No mention of Windows Home Server there?

[Vocalpoint]

A computer or computer program that manages access to a centralized resource or service in a network

Each to their own on definition - but over here - servers - are:

1. Industrial strength boxes purpose built to be on 24x7x365 equipped with professional grade components and parts to enable heavy duty storage, backup and media streaming processes
2. Running a specialized server specific operating system (usually Windows Server 2008 or Windows Home Server)
3. And most importantly - that never allow ANY end user desktop interaction or applications that cannot run as services.

Within this spec - MC is total non-starter since it's very operation requires that it must be babysat, started on the server desktop and treated like the consumer grade desktop application that it is. Same with Library/Media "server" - a set of consumer grade components that work great on client workstations so little Tommy can let the family in on his 400MB of metal MP3's.

For us with more extensive needs and much larger libraries - stashing my 2TB lossless music and 1.5TB of video on some basic client computer is simply never going to happen

Just today - I read about a product called Sonata music server - which looks at first glance to contain a ton of MC look, feel and components. Given this - it's obvious that JRiver is working in this area and maybe some of this tech may one day find it's way into a later stage Media Center Server based offering.

VP

[raym]

I'm sure Library Server will evolve over time. For my needs, it's fairly functional however I do share some of the frustrations expressed in this thread, especially the limitations imposed on the client, even with authentication enabled. A more granular auth model to allow different levels of access would be awesome.

The most significant issue I struggle with on a daily basis however is that I'm unable to simply drag and drop items from the client to a handheld device (for example) or a filesystem folder. It's really tough going explaining to my family to switch to an alternate library just to perform this task..... Yes there are workarounds but it's a lot harder than it should be IMO.

[flac.rules]

Personally, the main dealbraker for me when it comes to the client-server-model, is that I can't have several libraries on the server, and choose between them on the client.

[rpalmer68]

Yes, if authentication is enabled, you should be able to delete tv recordings and other files. View schemes, playlists and some other things can only be removed from the server. Also make sure the account running library server has permission at a filesystem level to delete the files in question.

This isn't actually working correctly at the moment (read "bug").

If you delete a TV recording from a LS client, the file is removed from the filesystem but the entry is remaining in the library.

Hopefully this will be fixed soon....

The other thing I miss in the current implementation is the fact I can't rip or import from a client so I have to go and put the CD in the server to rip it.

R

[Vocalpoint]

The other thing I miss in the current implementation is the fact I can't rip or import from a client so I have to go and put the CD in the server to rip it.

This one is at the top of my list...nothing is more frustrating than this...

VP

[Matt]

The most significant issue I struggle with on a daily basis however is that I'm unable to simply drag and drop items from the client to a handheld device (for example)

The handheld engine in Media Center should support client usage nicely.  

It downloads multiple files at a time.

It lets the server manage conversion, so that the transfer over the wire is smaller and so that any caching can be shared between multiple clients.

If you're experiencing problems with this, you might start a thread with more details.

[Vocalpoint]

The handheld engine in Media Center should support client usage nicely. 

It downloads multiple files at a time.

It let's the server manage conversion, so that the transfer over the wire is smaller and so that any caching can be shared between multiple clients.

If you're experiencing problems with this, you might start a thread with more details.

Matt - while we are on this topic - can I connect my iPod to an MC client as per normal but have it sync the material stored on a Library Server?  I have asked a number of times with no answer.

Cheers!

VP

[glynor]

The handheld engine in Media Center should support client usage nicely. 

It downloads multiple files at a time.

It let's the server manage conversion, so that the transfer over the wire is smaller and so that any caching can be shared between multiple clients.

If you're experiencing problems with this, you might start a thread with more details.

It may "support it nicely" but it is a huge order of magnitude slower than connecting directly to a library.  I NEVER use the Sync from a Library Server client because it is just too darn slow.

If I use my HTPC to do a Full Sync for my wife's iPhone (I've described how I do this before a bunch of times, but if you're curious, ask), it takes:
Connected Directly to the (Read-Only) Library: 3-5 minutes
Connected to the Library Server: 50-80 minutes

This is on the same exact machine, with the same exact network setup (all files accessible on a network drive).  I just switch Libraries in the still-running copy of MC (from "normal" Library Client mode to "Directly connected" mode) and then sync and the time it takes isn't even close to the same.  It also seems far less "buggy".  I haven't done it in a while, but I used to get REGULAR "failed" transfers scattered throughout the transfer attempt when I tried to sync from a Library Client, and occasionally the whole application would crash mid-transfer.  One thing I have seen relatively recently was that the transfer will sometimes just "stall" and the estimated time remaining just keeps going up and up, but the sync never completes (this happened to me a few weeks ago, and the sync actually "ran" all night long, stuck at around 60% completion).

[Matt]

Matt - while we are on this topic - can I connect my iPod to an MC client as per normal but have it sync the material stored on a Library Server?

Yes, assuming it's a natively supported iPod.

[Matt]

It may "support it nicely" but it is a huge order of magnitude slower than connecting directly to a library.

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples then.

I'm testing now.  It's downloading 3 files at a time and uploading one.  It pushed through a few GB in less time than it took me to type this message.

Please start a new thread if you want to dig deeper.

[Vocalpoint]

Yes, assuming it's a natively supported iPod.

Yep - mine is.

One more quick question - when syncing an ipod from files stored on a network location (NOT a Library Server) how does my local MC handles the "conversion"? My main library is all FLAC and of course when syncing to the iPod - MC has to convert on the fly to MP3. I want to know how that happens - is MC copying the FLAC locally and then converting or converting the file in the actual network location and then copying the MP3 back to ipod?

In my case - I have chosen no local storage and have MC set to just copy the converted file directly to the iPod...but it is as slow as slow can be. Looking for ways to speed this up.

VP

[glynor]

Please start a new thread if you want to dig deeper.

I will after I can collect some firm data.

I can tell you this:  I'm using the exact same "device" in MC.