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[Glimmer]

Hi

I have been using JRiver since 18 and now on 21.

I tried using Spotify recently, it has been the first time I used another player in a while. I dont use the JRiver WDM driver because sometimes I watch videos and I notice a lag e.g. you tube.
Then I found I could use "Fidelity" to use JRiver as an output on my Spotify. My god it sounded amazing playing through JRiver......

So I was wondering if anyone could explain how this was possible. My standard windows 10 WASPI, my standard DAC ASIO didnt sound as good as using JRiver WASPI.
Now I realise this is a commercial product and you probably dont want to reveal your secrets, so if you cant say then its alright. But JRiver is an amazing product!

Thank you!

[Spike1000]

Then I found I could use "Fidelity" to use JRiver as an output on my Spotify.

Could you please explain what exactly you mean here? What do you mean by 'Fidelity'?

Cheers

Spike

[jkrzok]

I think he meant FideliFy.

http://fidelify.net/

[Glimmer]

Yes sorry. Indeed I do mean FideliFy

[theoctavist]

the explanation is quite simple.

expectation bias.  theres nothing more to it than that really. 

[kstuart]

There are too many factors in all the various settings of a PC, Windows, MC21 and Spotify to pin down which settings are responsible.

The less software and hardware are involved in reproducing sound, the better the sound.

This is clearly demonstrated from the fact that a violin or piano sounds best in person, with zero hardware and software.

So, adding JRiver MC21 in addition to other software like Spotify is never going to improve the sound in general.

( Note that MC21 does have excellent features like Room Correction and Parametric EQ to fix specific problems with specific rooms or recordings, but you were speaking in general. )

[theoctavist]

That's the thing , there is no setting responsible, because if the data streams are identical on output...then nothing has been gained or lost.
it is just expectation bias. I would bet my life on it.

[Glimmer]

I am not using room correction or any DSP.

So what you are saying, if I am hearing a difference either it is all in my mind OR there is a problem with general set up (not using JRiver)?

[RoderickGI]

That's the thing , there is no setting responsible, because if the data streams are identical on output...then nothing has been gained or lost.

That would be true. But what if the audio data path doesn't deliver identical data streams?

Consider;
Spotify ==> Spotify App ==> Windows 10 ASIO/WASAPI ==> DAC/Sound Card
vs
Spotify ==> Fidelify App ==> Fidelify ASIO/WASAPI ==> DAC/Sound Card
vs
Spotify ==> Spotify App ==> [Direct Sound mess/decoding/re-encoding...Don't know what happens in here...Windows 10 ASIO/WASAPI] ==> DAC/Sound Card

Then there could be a real difference in the data stream delivered to DAC/Sound Card, couldn't there?

I haven't used Spotify yet, so I don't know what the output options are, and whether Direct Sound gets into the mix at all. But if it did, there could be a real sound difference.

Glimmer, how do you output from Fidelify and get it into MC? Do you use the WASAPI loopback capability or something, to feed the Fidelify WASAPI output back into MC? I haven't played with those capabilities yet, so would be interested to know.

Or are you in fact using the WDM as output for Fidelify? You could do that for Spotify anyway using the official Spotify App if you set up a Zone for Spotify playback, because lag would not matter when just playing music from Spotify. Fidelify is still in Beta, and hasn't had an update in over a year. There isn't much activity on their forum either. So I wouldn't want to be relying on that App.

I am not using room correction or any DSP.

So what you are saying, if I am hearing a difference either it is all in my mind OR there is a problem with general set up (not using JRiver)?

If you are noticing a really big difference, and you aren't doing any DSP in the audio path, then there is probably some other difference in the audio path, such as Direct Sound doing conversions.

If you are just hearing colour, depth, breadth, timber, warmth, stage, or other features you prefer more, it is probably all in your mind.