Topic: Some MC Tag fields do not correspond to SAM Broadcaster fields (Read 29262 times)

frankie · « **on:** September 07, 2011, 05:44:28 am »

Hi there, I wonder if anyone has ever encountered the same problem, I am using MC16 to tag all my audio files before I import them into SAM Broadcaster for my web radio station. Now, while most tag fields in MC16 correspond just fine to the ones that SAM uses (i.e. Artist, Title, Album, Date, Genre, Track #, Lyrics and Comments) I noticed that SAM also has a "Buy CD" and a "Website" field, however, I have tried all possible fields in MC that may related to URLs (i.e. web media info, web media search, web media url) but unfortunately these do not correspond with or to SAM. So then I have created 2 custom fields under tools>options>manage library fields and have named them exactly the same as in SAM ('Buy CD' and 'Website') and have made sure the settings are the same as for i.e. web media URL but still I am not able to get to correspond these with SAM.

Is there any solution to this that I could apply please?

vagskal · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:51:55 am »

You have to look at the actual file tag, create a new MC field that corresponds to the file tag and import the file tag into the new MC field. To do this: Select only one file (that has the tag you are looking for) and in the tag action window click on the top line where it says MP3 (or some other file format you have, flac for instance). In the window that appears look for something that looks like "Buy CD". If you have an mp3 file and you find an entry that looks like "TXXX (buy cd) [some text]", create a new MC field and name it exactly "buy cd", i.e. the part within (); capitalization does not matter. Select the file you just tried and in the right click menu choose Library Tools => Update Library (from tags). That should import the Buy CD tag into MC. You can then select all your mp3 files and do the same (Update Library (from tags)).

Repeat the procedure for the "Website" tag.

Mastacheata · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:13:30 am »

Hello,
I'm helping frank on this issue, but we can't seem to get step 2 right.
Here's a picture of the tags:

The Buy CD Link corresponds to the ID3v2.3 Field "WPAY aka Payment"
The Website Link corresponds to the ID3v2.3 Field "WOAR aka Official artist/performer webpage"

As you can see from the screenshot the JRiver Media Center doesn't recognize these Tags at all.

frankie · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:17:25 am »

Thanks very much for this info, really appreciate it. What I am after is are the 2 fields:

WOAR: <unknown data type> This is what SAM uses for Website (or also Official Artist website)
WPAY: <unknown data type> This is what SAM uses for Buy CD (or also Payment)

But i don't really need these fields to be imported from files but rather need them to be setup as fields in MC so that in future I can simply use them to paste the official artist website URL and Buy CD links respectively and so that when i then import the audio file afterwards into SAM, these 2 fields will show up with the filled in information accordingly. Is that doable?

vagskal · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:24:01 am »

I see. Since the mp3 tags are named (the WPAY and WOAR part) and MC does not support those tags (which I believe are not part of any standard and looks like something the SAM device came up with) it is not possible to import them into MC. MC can with mp3 files import into custom MC fields only comment tags that looks like TXXX. EDIT: It is also not currently possible for MC to write those tags to the mp3 files.

What you can do is trying to ask the MC developers to support those tags, or ask the SAM developers to write the information into TXXX file tags instead. I, however, doubt that you will have any luck with that. Sorry.

Mastacheata · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:32:18 am »

The W tags are not made up, but they are listed in the ID3 standard since version 2.3 (remember we're at 2.4 currently)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3-tag#ID3v2_Frame_Specification_.28Version_2.3.29
http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0

vagskal · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:38:12 am »

Quote from: Mastacheata on September 07, 2011, 07:32:18 am

The W tags are not made up, but they are listed in the ID3 standard since version 2.3 (remember we're at 2.4 currently)

Well in that case you might have better luck when asking the MC developers. You could start a new thread ("Please support the ID3v2 tags WOAR and WPAY") and see if you get any response or support for those tags from other users.

Vocalpoint · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2011, 09:36:33 am »

Quote from: Mastacheata on September 07, 2011, 07:32:18 am

The W tags are not made up, but they are listed in the ID3 standard since version 2.3 (remember we're at 2.4 currently)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3-tag#ID3v2_Frame_Specification_.28Version_2.3.29
http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0

I totally support this. I find it very bizarre (and ironic) that MC consistently promotes itself as delivering one of the best music "experiences" yet cannot even get it's act together to fully support known tagging standards. It's not like it's 1998 and this stuff is just gathering a foothold.

For MP3 and FLAC (easily the most used two formats out there) you would think that MC would lead the way and incorporate the fully set of entire ID3 standards for both formats so we wouldn't be messing around creating custom fields etc everytime a snag in another program shows up....

VP

vagskal · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:31:31 am »

A general way of importing named ID3v2 tags into a custom MC field would be very useful. I know it can be very frustrating to not be able to get the data into MC at all. I have repeatedly asked for a way to import my pet tag (TYER), but I try to limit myself to one request per MC version. With a way to import that tag myself such requests would not have to be made.

Otherwise I can understand the reluctance to implement more stock MC fields. If there is a stock field for something like Artist Website users would expect that field to be automatically populated regardless of file format. And since there are several formats supported by MC and few "standards" it would require a lot of work to figure out which file tags to import from/export to for all formats.

When I investigated which software to use for tagging, organizing and browsing music I found that MC's ability to import tags from any TXXX ID3v2 field and (almost) any flac tag (Vorbis comment) into a MC custom field seemed rather unique.

Vocalpoint · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:39:57 am »

Quote from: vagskal on September 07, 2011, 10:31:31 am

A general way of importing named ID3v2 tags into a custom MC field would be very useful. I know it can be very frustrating to not be able to get the data into MC at all. I have repeatedly asked for a way to import my pet tag (TYER), but I try to limit myself to one request per MC version. With a way to import that tag myself such requests would not have to be made.

Well - that's my point. If the standard was properly implemented in the first place - you wouldn't need to be making numerous requests to have something added.

I guess I just do not understand the MC mindset: Here we have a world standard for tag placement in the MP3 format (which has to be the most ubiquitous format to ever exist on the planet). MC supports MP3's...yet the developers of MC choose not to follow the world standard for this format when they build MC in the first place? Why would they choose to not build using the accepted world standard? Why go your own way and have all sorts of issues crop up later?

VP

vagskal · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2011, 11:00:15 am »

This feels strange, because I am usually the one asking/arguing for better support for this or that tag. But I cannot resist asking if you know of a music player/tagger for multiple file formats that supports all the "standard" ID3 (v2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4) tags (and any TXXX comment tag, which is also part of the "standard")? I do not know of one.

And again: I understand and, to some extent, share your frustration, and I am certainly not opposed to the idea of having built-in support in MC for all ID3 tags.

Vocalpoint · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2011, 11:14:05 am »

Quote from: vagskal on September 07, 2011, 11:00:15 am

But I cannot resist asking if you know of a music player/tagger for multiple file formats that supports all the "standard" ID3 (v2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4) tags (and any TXXX comment tag, which is also part of the "standard")? I do not know of one.

Well - I do not use any other players - so I can't answer that. I suppose this is more of a "logic" question than anything else.

If the standard is right there, freely available and is supposed to be the "standard" - why wouldn't developers use it fully and to the letter? And more importantly - keep it up to date. If the ID3 standard today is 2.4 - what version does MC use and why?

Is there some sort of problem with the standard? Does the standard suddenly get in the way of what MC is trying to do? Lots of questions.

I guess standards are implemented for a reason. Like if you want an app to run correctly on Windows - you must use Microsoft standards to get it to talk to the OS correctly. Can't imagine any reason for NOT supporting the accepted standards when it comes to MP3 and FLAC tags - when you are selling a high end music player as your primary source of income.

If it were me - I would use "Full ID3 2.4 Support" as a selling feature for the app just to separate it from all the others that do not conform. Maybe if my app was the only one to offer true, full support - that could be worth something down the line.

VP

frankie · « **Reply #12 on:** April 27, 2012, 05:29:51 am »

does anyone know if this has been fixed in MC 17?

Matt · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2012, 12:12:41 pm »

Quote from: frankie on April 27, 2012, 05:29:51 am

does anyone know if this has been fixed in MC 17?

Could you send a sample file to matt at jriver dot com, and also include details about what tags / frames you're hoping to see supported.

Thanks.

frankie · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2012, 12:43:00 am »

Hey Matt, the above posts are pretty self-explanatory..

MrC · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2012, 12:53:05 am »

Quote from: frankie on May 02, 2012, 12:43:00 am

Hey Matt, the above posts are pretty self-explanatory..

You've received a reply and request from a very busy developer. Anything you can do to remove barriers to implementation is likely to increase chances for success.

frankie · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2012, 03:06:13 am »

Yes and I totally agree, and that is why I (and my developer Mastacheata) have explained the issue/request in great detail above, I was under impression that this is sufficient enough?

Matt · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2012, 04:12:48 pm »

Like I mentioned, a sample file that contains all the tags you want supported would really help.

I'm matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.

frankie · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2012, 04:46:40 pm »

I appreciate the help but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to be able to send a sample file since MC does not have any of the above mentioned tag fields in the first place, so let's just leave it at that. But thanks anyway..

vagskal · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2012, 05:03:08 pm »

Hmm, I do not know what else could be done to help the OP...

Quote from: Matt on May 03, 2012, 04:12:48 pm

Like I mentioned, a sample file that contains all the tags you want supported would really help.

I, however, would be more than happy to send you a MP3 file with the TYER tag, if that would help getting support for that tag.

Matt · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2012, 04:02:34 pm »

Next build:
NEW: Added support for ID3v2 URL frames. Must manually add a field in Options > Library & Folders > Manager Library Fields... and select 'Store in tags' to use fields using the naming: WCOM: Commercial URL; WCOP: Copyright URL; WOAF: File URL; WOAR: Artist URL; WOAS: Source URL; WORS: Radio Station URL; WPAY: Payment URL; WPUB: Publisher URL

Matt · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2012, 04:04:48 pm »

In case it's not clear from the history, you would create a field with a name like:
Artist URL

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Author Topic: Some MC Tag fields do not correspond to SAM Broadcaster fields (Read 29262 times)