Topic: Red October settings details (Read 6355 times)

audunth · « **on:** November 01, 2011, 12:25:51 pm »

Hi,

Is there anywhere I can find a detailed documentation on Red October? The filters used, their versions, all filter settings etc.

I know I can find some information spread all over the board in release notes etc., I just wonder if someone from JRiver would be so kind as to share which versions and settings are used in the current release, or if there exists detailed documentation please give me a link.

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2011, 12:34:02 pm »

I don't think we could provide this and keep it up to date. The release notes for each build are the best source of information. Alex B keeps a blog with all of them. It's in his signature.

JustinChase · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2011, 12:57:22 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 01, 2011, 12:34:02 pm

I don't think we could provide this and keep it up to date. The release notes for each build are the best source of information. Alex B keeps a blog with all of them. It's in his signature.

Jim, maybe it can be automatically culled from the active filters list that RO uses/keeps separate from other filters, and then just added to the 'system info' information you already provide thru the help section. No extra work on your end to maintain/update, just the initial work of getting the information added up front, then it will autopopulate as things change/update?

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2011, 01:30:53 pm »

Just to be clear, we aren't going to do this.

audunth · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2011, 02:27:03 pm »

I know I can find some infor in the release notes, but how can I know exactly what settings MC configures in for example ffdshow? I need to know the output formats if they are correctly set for my professionally calibrated projector. I know I can use Red October with external filters and configure ffdshow myself, but if the settings are right in Red October I wouldn't have to do that.

Is there any way of using and manually configuring MC's internal ffdshow version? So that I wouldn't have to install ffdshow separately at all to be able to manually configure it? Can I just register the ffdshow.ax in the MC plugins folder in Windows, would that work without running an ffdshow install?

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2011, 02:41:02 pm »

If you want fine control, you can use the Advanced option. Tools/Options/Video/DirectShow Selection Method.

mojave · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2011, 03:07:19 pm »

Quote from: audunth on November 01, 2011, 02:27:03 pm

I know I can find some infor in the release notes, but how can I know exactly what settings MC configures in for example ffdshow? I need to know the output formats if they are correctly set for my professionally calibrated projector. I know I can use Red October with external filters and configure ffdshow myself, but if the settings are right in Red October I wouldn't have to do that.

Is there any way of using and manually configuring MC's internal ffdshow version? So that I wouldn't have to install ffdshow separately at all to be able to manually configure it? Can I just register the ffdshow.ax in the MC plugins folder in Windows, would that work without running an ffdshow install?

If you have a standalone version of ffdshow installed, you can open ffdshow's video decoder configuration and click on "Profiles/Preset Settings." You will then see the JRiver presets and click on them. Once you have loaded one, you can go to Output Format, etc. and see what settings are being used.

If you are using Red October HQ, then madVR is the renderer and "madVR only accepts YCbCr 4:2:0 input (YV12, NV12, P010 and P016)."

audunth · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2011, 05:54:51 pm »

Thanks, mojave. If I edit any of the settings in the JR_DecodeVideo_Playback, will MC change them back?

JimH: I know I can use the advanced settings to manually configure. The question was if I can somehow use MC's internal version of ffdshow and still edit the settings WITHOUT having ffdshow standalone installed on my PC.

GaryM · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2011, 08:17:35 pm »

I'm starting to see a trend... Questions about technicalities to do with MadVR or Red October HQ are generally quietly ignored... Not what I expect with a paid product and a business with a reputation for being customer focused.

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2011, 08:21:43 pm »

Quote from: audunth on November 01, 2011, 05:54:51 pm

JimH: I know I can use the advanced settings to manually configure. The question was if I can somehow use MC's internal version of ffdshow and still edit the settings WITHOUT having ffdshow standalone installed on my PC.

No, sorry.

The point of Red October is to simplify things and base settings on our team of experts' advice.

This means tweakers need to use the advanced modes.

Matt · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2011, 08:23:44 pm »

Quote from: GaryM on November 01, 2011, 08:17:35 pm

I'm starting to see a trend... Questions about technicalities to do with MadVR or Red October HQ are generally quietly ignored... Not what I expect with a paid product and a business with a reputation for being customer focused.

If you don't get an answer, it may mean nobody knows the answer. You could try politely bumping your thread.

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2011, 08:27:59 pm »

Quote from: Matt on November 01, 2011, 08:23:44 pm

If you don't get an answer, it may mean nobody knows the answer. You could try politely bumping your thread.

Or, more likely, the person who both:

A) Knows the answer, and
B) Had the time right at that moment to write it up

Didn't see, or forgot about, your post. That, or, the Subject wasn't very clear. I skip LOTS of threads that have seemingly meaningless (to me) topics.

That's why bumping, and maybe trying to ask in a different way or give more information, can help.

GaryM · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2011, 08:57:58 pm »

OK, thanks for the answers. In general I don't like bumping threads... I have a couple at present without responses, and am still myself working on having some further input for them before I go back to them. But in general, I would have thought that you guys who put the program together would know the ins and outs of the component parts and how they all interface with each other. On MadVR for example, would you prefer all questions are asked over at Doom9?

JustinChase · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2011, 09:11:12 pm »

I don't think it's that they can't or don't want to help with the tweaking. It's more that they finally got it working to the point that it doesn't need tweaking, so if you want to tweak, that's pretty much on your own now. Not that they can't or won't help when they can, but it's not required to play back your media, and they have great many other things to spend their time on.

Quote from: audunth on November 01, 2011, 05:54:51 pm

If I edit any of the settings in the JR_DecodeVideo_Playback, will MC change them back?

I believe it will. I think it's the only way to be assured of having a know working configuration for RO.

Quote

...The question was if I can somehow use MC's internal version of ffdshow and still edit the settings WITHOUT having ffdshow standalone installed on my PC.

I think you could, but I don't think it would stick. I think the frustration of trying outweighs the frustration of installing ffdshow. There are still some things that ffdshow does or does better than LAV/madVR in RO, but that's changing fast. Getting the current solutions to do these things better than ffdshow might be easier than you think.

JimH · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2011, 09:24:42 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on November 01, 2011, 09:11:12 pm

I don't think it's that they can't or don't want to help with the tweaking. It's more that they finally got it working to the point that it doesn't need tweaking, so if you want to tweak, that's pretty much on your own now. Not that they can't or won't help when they can, but it's not required to play back your media, and they have great many other things to spend their time on.

Well said. Thanks.

GaryM · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2011, 10:23:47 pm »

My questions aren't about tweaking, I just want it to work... my questions have been about functional details or problems.

audunth · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2011, 08:53:41 am »

Quote from: Matt on November 01, 2011, 08:21:43 pm

No, sorry.

The point of Red October is to simplify things and base settings on our team of experts' advice.

This means tweakers need to use the advanced modes.

Okay. Not a big problem installing ffdshow in addition to MC. But would it make sense to add such functionality? I mean, on a clean Windows installation, you could just install MC, then MC installs all the required components, and then choosing advanced mode would let you select all filters that MC installed and tweak them? Wouldn't that be easier for everyone? It just seems unnecessary to have something installed twice on my computer. Running a computer with the least possible amount of programs installed is good for stability. And since MC updates its filters with new MC builds, one would only have to keep MC up to date and not worry about keeping all the external filters up to date.

It's great that Red October just works for most people. And I clearly see that it was required. But even if RO works for most people, please don't forget that it's still a fair amount of users needing to tweak the settings for different reasons. Don't let it be a trend to just repeat "Use advanced mode!" and nothing more every time someone asks about how to tweak the settings. We who need to tweak a little to get everything out of our system are just as important customers as those who are perfectly happy with Red October, even if we're in minority.

NickF · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:36:34 pm »

I have a somewhat different issue. Red October doesn't "just work" for me. I have converted some Blu-Rays to MKV. One has a single DTS-HD MA audio stream. The other has DTS-HD MA and also a FLAC Stereo stream. The first gives me 5.1 which is fine. The second defaults to stereo which is not fine. I have to go into "MadVR home cinema control" in the system tray to select the DTS-HD MA audio track each time I play the movie. Why doesn't madVR default to 5.1? Can I change something to make it do this? If not, I feel there is a problem here.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Nick.

jmone · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:41:11 pm »

If you have imported the movie into MC then all you need to do is change the Audio Stream once using MC then it will be "remembered" and used for subsequent playback (either use the Up/Down arrows in TheaterView or just right click on the playing image and you will see the MC menu). The odd think is the MC will choose by default the "best" audio stream so I'm surprised the 2CH Flac is getting picked unless there the DTS-MA is being flagged incorrectly (eg no lang etc).

JustinChase · « **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2011, 01:17:10 pm »

Quote from: audunth on November 06, 2011, 08:53:41 am

...on a clean Windows installation, you could just install MC, then MC installs all the required components, and then choosing advanced mode would let you select all filters that MC installed and tweak them? Wouldn't that be easier for everyone? It just seems unnecessary to have something installed twice on my computer.

Not necessarily. Consider this. MC allows users to tweak their internal filters. A user tweaks them right out of functionality, MC would then need to work with the user to figure out what they tweaked, then reverse it back to the known working state.

Currently, being separate, they can just say, use RO, and that should take them back to a known working state, no further diagnosis required.

I understand and generally agree that having less installed is better/easier, but if MC allows you to 'mess with' Red October, they cannot assure it will continue to work.

By forcing you to install a separate set of filters for you to 'mess with', they keep their system in tact, and put the burden of diagnosis on you and your filters. not that they and others won't help with the diagnosis, but this way, they keep their fallback position in tact, and can always resolve your problems by going back to the known working RO.

Now, if Red October doesn't work, they need details and will work to fix it, but they cannot do that if they let you/me/us tweak it into an unknown state.

I hope that makes sense.

NickF · « **Reply #20 on:** December 12, 2011, 01:36:32 pm »

Quote from: jmone on December 12, 2011, 12:41:11 pm

If you have imported the movie into MC then all you need to do is change the Audio Stream once using MC then it will be "remembered" and used for subsequent playback (either use the Up/Down arrows in TheaterView or just right click on the playing image and you will see the MC menu). The odd think is the MC will choose by default the "best" audio stream so I'm surprised the 2CH Flac is getting picked unless there the DTS-MA is being flagged incorrectly (eg no lang etc).

Thanks jmone. I had been using madVR from the system tray and this didn't get remembered by Media Centre. Changing the audio stream within MC does get remembered. I still think that 5.1 should be selected in preference to stereo without user intervention so I believe there is an issue here which needs to be addressed.

Nick.

jmone · « **Reply #21 on:** December 12, 2011, 02:00:08 pm »

Red Oct does exactly that, and by default will pick the best track based on number of channels, quality but it will honor flags set such as forced, lang etc. Without a sample I can only guess

NickF · « **Reply #22 on:** December 12, 2011, 03:42:31 pm »

Quote from: jmone on December 12, 2011, 02:00:08 pm

Red Oct does exactly that, and by default will pick the best track based on number of channels, quality but it will honor flags set such as forced, lang etc. Without a sample I can only guess

But DTS-HD MA is better quality than the PCM and 5.1 is better than stereo. So where are these flags which are honoured? Can I change them?

Nick.

glynor · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2011, 05:00:55 pm »

Quote from: NickF on December 12, 2011, 03:42:31 pm

But DTS-HD MA is better quality than the PCM

That is CERTAINLY debatable, and maybe that's the problem? I doubt it, because the second part of what he said should be correct (multichannel>2.0), and so it should pick a multichannel DTS-MA track over a 2.0-channel PCM track. But, maybe something has a hard-coded preference for PCM? $:-\$

I bet it is a language flag though, or something else funky with the rip.

Would a MediaInfo spit out of the file tell you what you need to know, Nathan?

pcstockton · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2011, 05:11:25 pm »

Dont mean to be a dick but..... threads like this make me VERY happy I simply use VLC and Dolby PLII for all video watching. I find zero reason to watch videos/tv from within MC.

For audio, the interaction with the Media Player/Control Point is VERY important (for me).

On the other hand, for video I just want to start playback and stop when done.

Just a thought for those (like me) who dont understand the Why? behind MC+Video

-Patrick

glynor · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2011, 05:14:13 pm »

Quote from: pcstockton on December 12, 2011, 05:11:25 pm

On the other hand, for video I just want to start playback and stop when done.

That's EXACTLY what I like about MC for video, especially now.

The why for me is also because VLC is:

1. Crappy and slow.
2. Hard to get good quality out of.
3. Can't manage my 8TB video library and give me a UI I can use with a remote control.

With MC, I just hit play and Red October takes care of the rest. This is an edge case, and there are PLENTY of those over on the VLC forums.

PS. Not saying you're wrong, just that there are different ways to look at it. I like VLC just fine if I just want to open up a video that I found on the web that I'm going to watch once on the laptop and then delete. But if I'm going to really watch something, I want something that actually works well.

MC used to be fiddly to set up video, like pretty much all other DirectShow players. Now it almost always Just Works, at least for me and lots of other people.

pcstockton · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2011, 05:41:58 pm »

Well if quality will increase I will certainly give MC a go.

Although I don't "watch once then delete", I don't require a database within a media player for videos. I keep all videos on their own drive and initiate playback from folder level. I guess the way I watch movies or tv series differs greatly than how I listen to music. When I want to watch something, I know exactly what that is. Right-click>Play with VLC works perfectly for me.

When I once imported videos into MC i couldn't get a meaningful view b/c I dont think my files are tagged. Same deal with photos. I could never figure a way to have MC sort things for me by Folder Name, as say Picasa does.

Also, I like to keep MC as clean as possible and dedicated to audio.... But like I said above, if the Picture Quality is noticeably better, I would have to use MC.

Lastly, I use my Juli@ exclusively for 2 channel audio, as its digital cable is routed to my 2 channel Naim kit. Everything else is routed to my M-Audio Transit which connects up with my Yamaha in my 5.1 system. Can I have two different audio output settings, e.g one for video and one for audio? If so, how would I toggle between the two? I think this may be another reason I still use VLC. Other than audio, nothing is to leave the computer via the Juli@.

Thanks!
Patrick

rick.ca · « **Reply #27 on:** December 12, 2011, 10:47:15 pm »

Quote

Well if quality will increase I will certainly give MC a go.

Using ROHQ, the quality seems much better than VLC.

Quote

When I once imported videos into MC i couldn't get a meaningful view b/c I dont think my files are tagged.

Any media type can be displayed by location. Video is now partially tagged automatically, so it's not difficult to configure and maintain more functional views based on tags.

Quote

Can I have two different audio output settings, e.g one for video and one for audio? If so, how would I toggle between the two?

Yes, using zones. Ctrl-T.

glynor · « **Reply #28 on:** December 13, 2011, 12:00:16 am »

Quote from: pcstockton on December 12, 2011, 05:41:58 pm

Lastly, I use my Juli@ exclusively for 2 channel audio, as its digital cable is routed to my 2 channel Naim kit. Everything else is routed to my M-Audio Transit which connects up with my Yamaha in my 5.1 system. Can I have two different audio output settings, e.g one for video and one for audio? If so, how would I toggle between the two? I think this may be another reason I still use VLC. Other than audio, nothing is to leave the computer via the Juli@.

Quote from: rick.ca on December 12, 2011, 10:47:15 pm

Yes, using zones. Ctrl-T.

That's one way to do it. That's good for a bunch of reasons, but it does require you to remember to manually switch zones before you start playback (or it'll play on the "wrong" device).

An easier way would be to change Options -> Video -> Advanced -> Audio Playback Device to point directly to your preferred output device, rather than the default (which is to use the normal Audio system of MC). This has upsides and downsides. It sends the audio from the video directly from the decoding filters to the output device, rather than through the normal MC audio engine. So you don't get to pick the output mode (it almost certainly uses DirectSound then, though I'm not sure) or any of that, and you can't use the DSP for video files. However, this might not be a big deal to you. If you plan to bitstream "real" surround audio, and either just play stereo as stereo audio or let a receiver upmix it to surround (via Dolby ProLogic or DTS Neo 6 or something similar), then this is a good option because it is a "set it once and forget it" setting.

pcstockton · « **Reply #29 on:** December 13, 2011, 01:25:46 am »

thanks fellas.... trying both methods out tonight.

jmone · « **Reply #30 on:** December 13, 2011, 04:07:48 am »

On the topic of what Audio stream is selected, This is a little old but AFAIK it is till correct

Quote from: nevcairiel;1514969

There is a format priority in place.

10 - Lossless & uncompressed
9 - DTS-HD MA/HRAK
8 - DTS ES/96/24
7 - DTS
5 - AC3/EAC3/AAC

I could probably put EAC3 on the same level as DTS 96/24, because it can contain higher sample-rates/bitrate as normal AC3/DTS.
Note that before it reaches the format priority, it first selects the track matching your language, and the one with the highest channel count (more channel = more better, right?)

So it depends on how your file was created, if you have a MKV with a forced lang track or odd Lang settings you will get other tracks selected by default. To check what MKV settings have been made you will need to have a look with a MKV Muxer, media info is not the tool for this. The good thing with MC is that once you select the track you want it will be remembered for the next playback.

audunth · « **Reply #31 on:** December 14, 2011, 11:48:41 am »

If the MKV muxer you use sets one of the audio streams with the default stream flag, it will be selected in MC (unless language settings makes MC select your preferred language track), no matter what quality it is. I always make sure to set my preferred audio track as default when I convert to MKV, if there are more than one audio track I wish to keep. Unless you select otherwise, the muxer will usually set the first audio track as the default track, and on some Blu-rays that might be the stereo/Pro Logic track.

I use MKVmerge GUI, part of MKVtoolnix, and it gives you full control over all language, default and forced flags.

By the way DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD can never be better than PCM, which is uncompressed. Assuming of course we're talking about the same audio mix with the same amount of channels.

audunth · « **Reply #32 on:** December 14, 2011, 11:55:41 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on December 12, 2011, 01:17:10 pm

Not necessarily. Consider this. MC allows users to tweak their internal filters. A user tweaks them right out of functionality, MC would then need to work with the user to figure out what they tweaked, then reverse it back to the known working state.

Currently, being separate, they can just say, use RO, and that should take them back to a known working state, no further diagnosis required.

I understand and generally agree that having less installed is better/easier, but if MC allows you to 'mess with' Red October, they cannot assure it will continue to work.

By forcing you to install a separate set of filters for you to 'mess with', they keep their system in tact, and put the burden of diagnosis on you and your filters. not that they and others won't help with the diagnosis, but this way, they keep their fallback position in tact, and can always resolve your problems by going back to the known working RO.

Now, if Red October doesn't work, they need details and will work to fix it, but they cannot do that if they let you/me/us tweak it into an unknown state.

I hope that makes sense.

Already considered that. MC can just store the RO pre-configured filter settings separate from your tweaked settings, so that no matter if you tweak yourself into a dark alley with no exit, when you select RO without extra filters, MC loads its own settings. ffdshow even has this feature built in (profiles).
MC could even have a "reset filters" button which would reset all of your tweaked filter settings back to MCs RO settings so that you can start over again.

JustinChase · « **Reply #33 on:** December 14, 2011, 12:16:15 pm »

Quote from: audunth on December 14, 2011, 11:55:41 am

Already considered that. MC can just store the RO pre-configured filter settings separate from your tweaked settings

I don't believe the "settings" are separate from the "filters", you have to actually change the filters themselves to change how they work. That is what the advanced option does curently, let's you adjust the filters separate from MC's filter settings.

Additionally, I believe your original question specifically suggested to NOT do this.

Quote from: audunth on November 06, 2011, 08:53:41 am

...on a clean Windows installation, you could just install MC, then MC installs all the required components, and then choosing advanced mode would let you select all filters that MC installed and tweak them? Wouldn't that be easier for everyone?

This suggests you wish to tweak MC's filter settings, and my answer explained why this isn't a good idea.

In order to have separate settings, you need separate filters installed.

audunth · « **Reply #34 on:** December 14, 2011, 02:21:56 pm »

No you don't have to have separate filters installed to have separate settings. Each filter is a Windows application that stores settings in the registry and/or configuration files. Are you even aware of the concept of profiles in ffdshow? For filters without support for storing several separate settings profiles, MC could easily add that functionality. Actually, it's already there, since MC already sets up all the filters as needed!

Do you need several separate installations of MC to use Zones? Nope.

It seems you either didn't understand my point or you didn't read my post very carefully. My point is that if you wanna tweak a little things become MUCH more complicated than it has to be. First, you have to install MC. Then all the additional filters you want to tweak. Then you have to monitor a bunch of different websites for those filters to check for and download new versions of each filter when there are improvements/bug fixes. Then you have to test a bunch of file types to check if there are any issues with the new versions of the filters, since when you have friends over and warm pizza on the table, it's a bit late to find out if something doesn't work.

If you could use MC's internal filters, all you had to do was install MC and keep that up to date, and it updates all the filters for you and the MC team, I believe, takes care of the stability testing of new filter versions before they are used in a new version of MC, hence it's a waste of time for me to spend a lot of time on work that's already been done.

Not only would I have a cleaner system, it would be a LOT simpler to keep up to date. A lot closer to a set-up-and-forget system.

Now, I'm not a programmer, and I don't know everything about filters and the way they work, so if there's some technical explanation of why this can't be done, I'm all ears.

glynor · « **Reply #35 on:** December 14, 2011, 02:59:53 pm »

Quote from: audunth on December 14, 2011, 02:21:56 pm

No you don't have to have separate filters installed to have separate settings. Each filter is a Windows application that stores settings in the registry and/or configuration files. Are you even aware of the concept of profiles in ffdshow? For filters without support for storing several separate settings profiles, MC could easily add that functionality. Actually, it's already there, since MC already sets up all the filters as needed!

Do you need several separate installations of MC to use Zones? Nope.

He didn't explain it very well. Perhaps he misunderstood some part of how it actually works, I'm not sure... Either way:

I don't know for sure, I don't work for them, but I'd guess that the main reason they don't let you configure their copies of the filters is because they want the freedom to change the included set without asking anyone's "permission". There is not even any promise that MC will continue to USE ffdshow, much less keep a particular version that has a particular feature. For example, they just recently switched away from ffdshow to LAV for a big hunk of the RO audio functionality. If they completely eliminated the need for ffdshow down the road, then MC wouldn't even download or have that filter available for your use.

So, if they let you build your own profiles for ffdshow (or LAV or madVR or whatever) and then either completely eliminated one of those choices or changed to a different build that sets the settings differently (maybe deprecating old functionality) they'd have a bunch of people griping that "I updated to a new build of MC and it broke all of my custom settings". This is, of course, still possible with RO+Additional Filters, but it is much less likely because all of the "+ Additional Filters" are outside of MC.

I do know that in many cases (such as with madVR) they aren't even using the registry setting system for the filters like they would in other applications. MC is directly configuring the filters at playback time. In any case, they don't have to test all of the filters for every possible setting combination before they update to a new build of a particular filter, they just need to test the stuff they are using, and the rest can be completely broken and no one cares.

The idea is really quite simple:

1. If you want to use Red October for playback, there are only two simple choices: Standard and High Quality (which correspond to "a regular computer" or "a high-end computer"). These are supported fully and will work, but they are handled completely behind the scenes. It is a black box.

2. If you want to tweak, you have a few choices. You can combine Red October with a whitelisted set of "additional filters" which are known to work fairly well with the Red October system. You have to obtain and install these yourself, but this lets you tweak the settings yourself, and set it just how you want it. You can also switch to "Windows Merit" mode, and go it completely alone.

The assumption for #2 is that you know what you are doing, where to get what you want, and how to get them working. If you don't, then you should go with #1 instead.

audunth · « **Reply #36 on:** December 14, 2011, 08:22:11 pm »

Well, that makes sort of sense, Glynor. I haven't thought of it that way. Of course if some filters was no longer used internally in MC, you would then have to install those additionally, so I guess you would have to follow the changelog pretty carefully, and those who don't might get in trouble.

One possible solution would be if MC abandoned a filter, it could still keep that filter internally without using it, and for new MC installations only download it when the user selected that filter manually. It would be the last version used by the RO engine, since they wouldn't update it after it was abandoned in RO.

Any which way all filters not used at all in MC internally would still have to be installed externally, since it is no way the JRiver staff could keep up with all DS filters that exist out there.

pcstockton · « **Reply #37 on:** December 15, 2011, 04:05:08 pm »

Quote from: glynor on December 13, 2011, 12:00:16 am

An easier way would be to change Options -> Video -> Advanced -> Audio Playback Device to point directly to your preferred output device, rather than the default (which is to use the normal Audio system of MC). This has upsides and downsides. It sends the audio from the video directly from the decoding filters to the output device, rather than through the normal MC audio engine. So you don't get to pick the output mode (it almost certainly uses DirectSound then, though I'm not sure) or any of that, and you can't use the DSP for video files. However, this might not be a big deal to you. If you plan to bitstream "real" surround audio, and either just play stereo as stereo audio or let a receiver upmix it to surround (via Dolby ProLogic or DTS Neo 6 or something similar), then this is a good option because it is a "set it once and forget it" setting.

This worked like a charm. It is very cool to be able to use multiple outputs/sound cards. When concentrating to the audio more than usual, I felt Dolby PLII does a fine job of reconstructing multi channels from the DS output. Im sure it could be better but it is not needed for me to watch Boardwalk Empire or The Wire etc....

MC has one very nice advantage for me over VLC in the form of the drop down control at the top of the screen. It is very nice to be able to control things (pause, seek etc) without leaving full screen.

On the other hand I have no clue how to set up a meaningful view for video. I just see thumbnails with the often cryptic filenames for each video. It certainly does not automatically sort a nice view as with audio. It isn't a big deal though as I don't keep a library of video. All of my videos are burned to DVDs so I can easily lend individual shows/series to friends. (i do have them backed up on a small WD Passport)

I will most likely continue to simply play from folder lever via right-click context menus so I wont be tagging things. This probably is the reason I dont see a nice organized view as I do with music.

Anyway..... thanks for the help you guys.

After I spend some time with MC I will be able to determine for myself if there is any picture quality improvement or not. I don't think quick A/B testing proves anything. They only way for me to definitively state a delta in quality is via extended sessions.

Cheers!
Patrick

glynor · « **Reply #38 on:** December 15, 2011, 04:11:02 pm »

If your receiver can do it, I really feel DTS Neo 6 does a better job with video than any of the Dolby Pro Logic variants. Dolby is too center-channel heavy. DTS Neo 6 does a really nice job (of course, so does the MC JRSS expander).

JustinChase · « **Reply #39 on:** December 15, 2011, 04:40:32 pm »

Quote from: pcstockton on December 15, 2011, 04:05:08 pm

After I spend some time with MC I will be able to determine for myself if there is any picture quality improvement or not. I don't think quick A/B testing proves anything. They only way for me to definitively state a delta in quality is via extended sessions.

Please make sure you test with Red October High Quality, which uses madVR (assuming your computer/video card is powerful enough)

Most people claim they see a noticeable difference pretty quickly; of course, your mileage may vary

pcstockton · « **Reply #40 on:** December 15, 2011, 07:55:44 pm »

Quote from: glynor on December 15, 2011, 04:11:02 pm

If your receiver can do it, I really feel DTS Neo 6 does a better job with video than any of the Dolby Pro Logic variants. Dolby is too center-channel heavy. DTS Neo 6 does a really nice job (of course, so does the MC JRSS expander).

Ill check it out. I dont watch much "action" TV so center-centric is good for me. I know my yamaha has some DTS decoding. Ill check to see if it has Neo.

-p

pcstockton · « **Reply #41 on:** December 15, 2011, 07:58:57 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on December 15, 2011, 04:40:32 pm

Please make sure you test with Red October High Quality, which uses madVR (assuming your computer/video card is powerful enough)

Right.... I will check that out as well. I do have a decent (as of 4 years ago) video card somewhere. But I hated how loud it was when the fan spun up. So i replaced it with the bog standard card that came with the Dell Tower years ago.

Maybe that is why I still prefer to burn to DVD and play it on my DVD player.

Need to investigate this more.....

Thanks again everyone,
Patrick

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