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Author Topic: Pane Request  (Read 2346 times)

locust

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Pane Request
« on: November 14, 2011, 07:24:48 pm »

Could you please allow, only for drop down panes the ability to have two levels of categories (like in my badly edited picture).. This way I could fit twice as many panes in as before whilst still saving space as compared to non drop down panes.



This would seriously cut down the amount of views I have..  And this way I use could use multiple search lists to make coherent filters instead of the jumbled up ones like in the pic below (not the best example but you get my gist?). I'd probably use the bottom tier exclusively for search lists... I only think this would work with drop down panes, it would eat up too much monitor space for other types of panes unless you had a super widescreen monitor..



Thanks
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locust

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 07:31:00 pm »

Come to think of it, it would be cool it the first tier could be normal panes, that you could use for album artist etc and the bottom tier could be drop down, for search lists. That way you could have the best of both worlds..


It would be cool if you could do both a two tiered drop down pane or one normal pane and one drop down..

Here is another badly illustrated picture to show what I mean



Thanks again
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rick.ca

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2011, 10:21:56 pm »

Quote
This would seriously cut down the amount of views I have..  And this way I use could use multiple search lists to make coherent filters instead of the jumbled up ones like in the pic below (not the best example but you get my gist?).

You can create a smartlist for any kind of "search" or "filter" you may want to use (it seems you're doing that), organize those in nested Playlist Groups (it seems you're not), and add the parent playlist group as a pane. That will give you one pane with a nested list of everything. This can be used primarily as a "starting point" and thereby minimize the need for multiple views. Use the remaining space for panes you're likely to want use in combination with one another.
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locust

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2011, 10:42:10 pm »

I didn't use the nesting before but I did use smart lists before but I found that smart lists didn't filter well with the rest of my panes (I tried with "filter in both directions", on and off), so I manually made the search lists for each view instead of using smartlists.. I don't know I might have been doing something wrong I'll have to try it again I suppose...

Even so I still think a two tiered system could be handy. There are some advantages to having multiple panes that deal with smartlists, means you can filter a smartlist against another smartlist as well as every other pane you have. The key there would be to have distinct smartlist panes for specific purposes where all the smartlists within have a similar role. i.e. if I have a pane with a grouping of smartlists that generally dealt with when stuff was imported and another which dealt with Top hits, I could filter between the two, probably not the best example.

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rick.ca

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 12:26:41 am »

Quote
I didn't use the nesting before but I did use smart lists before but I found that smart lists didn't filter well with the rest of my panes...

That's right, which is why I suggested using such a pane as a starting point. It's still functional—the contents of the pane just won't update based on selections in other panes. But they are convenient for focusing in on a task or subset of the library so the remaining panes can be used for other things. The number of those can be reduced by combining categories in nested lists.

Another technique I'm finding handy is combining a number of panes otherwise be necessary for making a file selection into one expression pane that presents a menu of exactly what is required in the circumstances. The attached screenshot is of my current Cover Art maintenance view. I've replaced a number of panes previously used to just two: "Select-O-Matic" (the name makes me smile) and "Alerts." This reduced what was a tedious and confusing selection to two clicks. This is particularly important in this application. After one cover is selected, these two panes are reset—so the view shows the cover and the tracks to which it belongs. The embedded covers can then be updated.

This is a special purpose view (and therefore contrary to the idea of one view doing everything), but it illustrates and important point. Trying to make a view do more by adding more panes is not always the best solution. At a point, adding more panes just makes the whole thing more cumbersome to use. My experience suggests that point is normally reached well before needing a second tier of panes.
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locust

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 07:44:13 am »

That looks really cool, there's probably a few things I could use those type of panes for..

Hey just an idea, when I first started using J River I felt a little submerged with what I could potentially do, where I wanted to feel immersed I felt choked as to which path I could go down.. I've got there in the end with a lot of trial & error.. I've got a qualification in computing, so I 'd hope I'd there in the end (networking side, so expressions were still kind of difficult). I understand that there are probably more than a handful of users that probably feel lost and have crap setups..

Maybe in the J River wiki there could be a section where users could voluntarily write a section, where they could state what type of person they are and what type of music and library they have..

They then could write down a complete setup guide detailing what tags are need, special fields (detailed with expression data) and complete view scheme schematics..

Users could then rate these guides and the best ones would appear at the top of the wiki...

This way it could turn all this into a cut & paste job for all those who feel overwhelmed, and scared to dabble in expressions etc..

They'd probably have to be pretty detailed to be effective, I mean holding the hand type stuff, explanations for everything and a warning if they haven't tagged their music according to the guide some stuff probably won't display correctly..

Or this could be done by sharing a clone of you library minus the tracks to bypass a cut & paste job.. A explanational write up would probably still be needed.
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Gl3nn

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 09:06:29 am »


They then could write down a complete setup guide detailing what tags are need, special fields (detailed with expression data) and complete view scheme schematics..


After pilfering yet another idea from his setup, I vote that Rick do this with his!   :o

JK.  Kind of.  But thanks again for the concepts and ideas shared here, Rick!  It's helped me a lot.
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vagskal

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 11:52:22 am »

I have a lot to learn from you. Thanks for sharing.

After one cover is selected, these two panes are reset—so the view shows the cover and the tracks to which it belongs. The embedded covers can then be updated.

I do not understand this. Are the files shown in the screenshot image files in music album folders that you have tagged like the audio files in the music album? Is it an all media view, i.e. images and audio? What do you mean when you say reset the two panes? If I reset a pane view focus of the file selected is lost.

What I am in particular interested in is how you manage to show the image file(s) and the music files associated with it (if that is what you do).
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vagskal

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 12:52:24 pm »

And sorry, Brian, for the OT question to Rick in my last post, but I am curious and want to learn, if Rick is willing to share.

As regards your suggestion, I would rather see a better use of the Cover View (where you can have panes but use the whole screen for them). For tagging I use a split view with 2 pane views (horizontal; the top view locked). Having an option of having also (just) the Tag Action window (not the tree) available (at the size of the bottom pane) would be really useful for tagging; even a floating tag action window would. Furthermore, for me a current major annoyance with the Cover View is that the play controls always pop up and obscure the links when I try to use them in the top view with no way currently to disable the controls pop up (if I click on the X, for closing, in the pop up, I am thrown out of Cover View). Having a search box showing in the Cover View would also make tagging easier.

I do not feel at all comfortable with drop down menus since I like to always see what my selections in the panes are, but that is probably a matter of taste and method of use of panes. I use panes/pane view mostly for tagging and then it is often essential for consistent tagging to assure that I select all tracks in one album, and I want to be able to efficiently use pane tagging.

(And sorry guys for my comment in the other thread about your skilfully crafted but rather colourful thumbnail text. That is also just a matter of what you prefer. I am simply more of a shades of grey kind of guy.)
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locust

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 01:21:20 pm »

No worries,

I think if users shared the bare bones of their setups, everybody could learn a lot from each another.. Probably best on the wiki page, the forum is useful but sometimes I feel trying to learn especially when it comes to expressions it can get a bit cumbersome trawling back and forth through threads, trying to understand a work in progress can be too much. I wouldn't post it myself unless I was sure that my setup was somewhat perfect and not a work in progress, so if other people used with with some proper documentation that it would work. J River is great for it's flexibility but I'd bet it would be a nightmare for a novice..

Quote
or me a current major annoyance with the Cover View is that the play controls always pop up and obscure the links when I try to use them in the top view with no way currently to disable the controls pop up (if I click on the X, for closing, in the pop up, I am thrown out of Cover View).

I completely agree, I like drop down panes (I have a small monitor, I would use full panes if I had a wider screen (height wise))... I also like cover view but for me drop down panes and cover view don't mix. I'm temped to make duplicates of all my view schemes, one with drop down pane and another without exactly for this purpose.. I think the controls could optionally be docked at the bottom as well, or even better if it could float where you want it and snap into place..

A search box in cover view would be great, I would use the normal panes if that were so.. One of the biggest reasons I use drop downs is that they all come with search boxes.. It would be cool if you could turn on search boxes the normal panes.. I know some people might not like it.. That is why I'd make it optional.. Not every pane needs a search box though, I'd add the option to enable a search box for each individual pane category in the category settings box (In the bit where you deal with sorting, matching & grouping). A little check box would do.. I'd only have the search box enabled on my album artists pane anyway..

Quote
(And sorry guys for my comment in the other thread about your skilfully crafted but rather colourful thumbnail text. That is also just a matter of what you prefer. I am simply more of a shades of grey kind of guy.)

No offence taken, I haven't got an artistic bone in my body, you should see it when I try to make a basic website lol.. I'm not very good with colour schemes. That's why I've ditched mines and went with Ricks way.. Much more appealing on the eye..
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rick.ca

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 03:58:11 pm »

Maybe in the J River wiki there could be a section where users could voluntarily write a section, where they could state what type of person they are and what type of music and library they have.

I can't imagine being able to do that, so I doubt it would work. It seems you're looking at your own creation, thinking your head is going to explode, and assuming there must be a "better way." But that's not unlike the experience I'm having. I'm happy with my set up, but only because I've found ways to prevent my head from exploding. One way is not trying to explain all the intricacies of how I choose to do things to others. Even if I could, the reaction of any sane person would be, "Well, I'm not going to attempt that."

One way I cope—and also a reason why I could never describe my whole set up—is I make small, manageable changes all the time. On just about every significant question you've asked, I've done a some thinking and experimenting, and made changes to my own set up. As a result of doing this for several years now, there are many aspects of my system that work very well. But there are also parts that work but don't make much sense—because of the way they evolved. I wouldn't want to try to explain such things without re-engineering them so they make sense. There are a number of things I could not easily describe—because I've completely forgotten how they work!

After pilfering yet another idea from his setup, I vote that Rick do this with his!   :o

So I won't do this, but I do agree pilfering should be the first choice for a coping tool. If you can't find anything to pilfer, then consider questions others are asking, and devise your own solution. A substantial portion of my set up is comprised of solutions to problems I didn't realize I had. ;)

I do not understand this. Are the files shown in the screenshot image files in music album folders that you have tagged like the audio files in the music album? Is it an all media view, i.e. images and audio? What do you mean when you say reset the two panes? If I reset a pane view focus of the file selected is lost. What I am in particular interested in is how you manage to show the image file(s) and the music files associated with it (if that is what you do).

This is a good example. It's a single view for a very specific purpose, yet it won't be easy to explain. Also, not everyone is in the same circumstance (i.e., in this case, how covers are handled), and few would choose to deal with the need in exactly the same way. But my solution is based on a few techniques and an understanding of how the program works that would be helpful to others, even if they're not interested in applying them in this particular case.

So I will describe this in a separate topic when I find time. It involves writing embedded covers to the file system, identifying those images as covers, and tagging them so they can be associated with the albums from which they came. The view is then used to select a particular cover (e.g., one that is too small or not square) and displaying it with the tracks of the album. At that point, the appropriate tool is used to modify or find a new image, then save it to the file tags. The process is a bit involved and may sound cumbersome, but I'm very pleased with the results. I can now isolate "problem" covers very quickly (anyone who has tried knows this is not straightforward) and devote whatever time and attention is available to finding and choosing the best cover.
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locust

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 05:43:07 pm »

very true, I couldn't imagine trying to explain it all..

I doubt my setup will stay the same for long, it's always evolving.

I still think it would be nice if there were a page on the wiki where users could post, not full creations but modules singular views schemes or even smaller than that panes, these would be much easier to explain and also very useful. They would have all the necessary information, fields and expressions in bite size chunks..

This way people could mix & match easily from many different sources which would aid them on their creations without being overly complicated.

Who knows it might work it might not.. Might see sometime in the future, I'll write up a draft module & see how it looks. It would have to be easy to explain & understand.. I think there is already a lot detailed in the wiki, this could be useful for some slightly more obscure stuff. I've still got plenty of learning to do myself.. I haven't even got round to using regex, I kind of understand it but I am not quite there, never mind thinking of how it could be of use to me..
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vagskal

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2011, 01:35:34 am »

So I will describe this in a separate topic when I find time.

Thanks in advance.
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rick.ca

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Re: Pane Request
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2011, 04:56:29 am »

Quote
Thanks in advance.

You're welcome: Cover Maintenance  ;)
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