Topic: Samsung TV's & MC16 DLNA (Read 23770 times)

bytestar · « **on:** May 19, 2011, 08:08:36 am »

Hello all together

is here someone with a Samsung TV's which works with the DLNA from Media Center 16?

I don't get this to works, who can help me i do not want use a different server.

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2011, 08:28:06 am »

Please do a little research to see if the TV is a controllable renderer.

bytestar · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2011, 12:32:44 pm »

Yes it is definitely 100% the internal function of Windows 7 Media Player send to works so perfectly.
But the Windows "Play to function" is unfortunately limited to Windows Media Player formats, mkv, bdmv, etc does not works.

These servers work but, i would prefer to use MC16.
http://www.wildmediaserver.com/ is very expensive and complex
http://www.samsung.com/global/allshare/pcsw/ not very comfortable.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/minidlna/ Linux based, not right for me
http://mediatomb.cc/ Linux based, not right for me

Quote from: JimH on May 19, 2011, 08:28:06 am

Please do a little research to see if the TV is a controllable renderer.

IlPadrino · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2011, 05:53:48 pm »

I've got a Samsung 46C6400 and have had no joy in getting the MC DLNA controller to control the TV. I think the issue is Samsung may advertise itself as a renderer, but doesn't work as a renderer. Skeeterfood had the same problem with a Samsung LN40C650.

The TV itself works just fine as a DLNA player and I can get media no problem from the MC server. But I'm stuck using the Samsung UI (which isn't very nice) when I'd much rather be using something like Gizmo.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2011, 07:01:27 pm »

Not all renderers can be controlled.

The dlna.org site has a database of devices and their capablilities. It isn't always right, but it is worth a look.

A firmware update could change things.

runemail · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2011, 04:36:02 am »

I have a European D8000 and can confirm it works with MC16. i really like that i can stream .mkv files from my server and playback on my tv over wireless. Without transcoding. Coverart applied in MC shows up on my tv, but hovever the MC16 server itself shows up without any "coverart" icon.

I use it as a quick and dirty way to watch a small part of my library, haven't really played a lot with it.

bob · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2011, 11:31:20 am »

Quote from: IlPadrino on May 21, 2011, 05:53:48 pm

I've got a Samsung 46C6400 and have had no joy in getting the MC DLNA controller to control the TV. I think the issue is Samsung may advertise itself as a renderer, but doesn't work as a renderer. Skeeterfood had the same problem with a Samsung LN40C650.

That was my thought as well after seeing it not certified as a renderer. Hopefully they will issue a firmware update to fix it. Might be worth bugging them if there is a way...

smfarrer · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2011, 07:19:38 pm »

I have had the same experience with my Samsung 55C6400. MC16 reports back error msg: there was a problem controlling the selected DLNA device... However, it works perfectly fine with Windows Media Player 12 - so it is NOT Samsungs issue. In fact, it was so easy to get working in WMP12. I spent hours trying to get MC16 to work with no success. I bought MC16 specifically for this since it purports to allow syncing of the playing on multiple locations (which WMP does not). I was using the trial version, but was unable to gain access to the forum to ask my question until i made the purchase (thinking there was an easy solution). I hope it is fixed in MC16.

glynor · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2011, 08:26:06 pm »

Anyone can register and post on the forum. People do it while using the trial all the time, including today.

I know nothing about it working or not on that particular TV, but FYI: Just because Microsoft's Play To feature works, does not mean that the device is a fully functioning DLNA Renderer. It could, for example, only implement a Microsoft proprietary version of DLNA, which works with WMP but which is otherwise a half-way baked, limited, semi-broken implementation of the DLNA standard. Or, maybe Microsoft paid them to offer this feature specific to Windows 7's media player, to promote the new functionality of their OS, and so it is intentionally locked? (I'd guess lazy over intentional, but you never know.)

smfarrer · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:55:45 am »

I tried to register - received the first email stating my request was received and logged with account name and password, but that it needed to be reviewed for approval and i would get another email when approved..., but never got another email.

bob · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2011, 10:44:56 am »

Quote from: smfarrer on June 29, 2011, 10:55:45 am

I tried to register - received the first email stating my request was received and logged with account name and password, but that it needed to be reviewed for approval and i would get another email when approved..., but never got another email.

Unfortunately email seems to be a less than 100% success operation now. There are lots of filters in place on most servers incoming queues (including ours) and they are not always right. Everytime I do a mailing I've got to deal with messages being delayed, rejected, robo-filtered, etc. Hotmail, Gmail and Yahoo mail often give us trouble but at least they are consistent and can be dealt with.

bob · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2011, 10:55:58 am »

The Samsung 55C6400 is NOT certified as a DMR (remotely controlled renderer).
http://certification.dlna.org/certs/REG47202424.pdf

If you want to do a wireshark trace of trying to send content to it (search the forum for examples) and email the result to bob (at) jriver (dot) com, I'll look at it however since it's not certified to do DMR I don't have high hopes.

Just a thought, you should make sure the DLNA server you are using in MC is based off of the Samsung template and not the Generic one that's created by default. You should delete the Generic server and Add one based on the Samsung template if you haven't already.

Streamz · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2011, 01:50:45 am »

Just bought a Samsung UE6530 and DLNA works with MC16. I'm using the generic DLNA server, not the Samsung specific one btw. (Anyone knows what the difference is?).

I have MC16 convert video to MPEG2 high bandwith stream, as MPEG2 this seems to be the only supported format by Samsung in this setup.
Now the library shows up in Smart Hub and videos can be played, even wireless.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2011, 07:13:54 am »

Quote from: Streamz on July 02, 2011, 01:50:45 am

Just bought a Samsung UE6530 and DLNA works with MC16. I'm using the generic DLNA server, not the Samsung specific one btw. (Anyone knows what the difference is?).

I have MC16 convert video to MPEG2 high bandwith stream, as MPEG2 this seems to be the only supported format by Samsung in this setup.
Now the library shows up in Smart Hub and videos can be played, even wireless.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the report.

Streamz · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2011, 12:45:14 pm »

Thanks for the welcome

I'm still fiddling with the sound though. Tried a 700 MB .AVI DVD Rip but sound quality is terrible. I don't know if this is because of the (convert to) MPEG2 stream, the file itself or another cause. Any thoughts?

And the Samsung is displaying all DLNA servers, so also my Win7 notebook. Which is annoying, because this one is the first to come up in the list and every time I have to wait for the error, get rid of it and move on.
So not prefect yet, but I'm surprised by how fast things work in MC16 in combination with connected systems.

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** July 02, 2011, 01:34:26 pm »

How does it sound when you play it on the server?

You can turn off a server if you need to, under Media Network.

Streamz · « **Reply #16 on:** July 02, 2011, 05:15:21 pm »

The server is a fit-PC, without anything attached. I'll hook it up my amp tomorrow to see how the sound is.

Media Network? That's somewhere in Win7 I guess?

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2011, 05:20:14 pm »

Media Network is an MC option. It's also a board here. It refers to the suite of network features in MC.

Streamz · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2011, 02:14:56 am »

Thanks. But I had to disable Windows7 Media Player network sharing service to get rid of it. Now the Samsung is only showing the MC DLNA server.

Useful post here: http://www.mydigitallife.info/how-to-disable-windows-7-media-player-network-sharing-service-wmpnetwk/

I'll open a new topic for the audio quality.

bob · « **Reply #19 on:** July 05, 2011, 10:01:44 am »

Quote from: Streamz on July 02, 2011, 01:50:45 am

Just bought a Samsung UE6530 and DLNA works with MC16. I'm using the generic DLNA server, not the Samsung specific one btw. (Anyone knows what the difference is?).

I have MC16 convert video to MPEG2 high bandwith stream, as MPEG2 this seems to be the only supported format by Samsung in this setup.
Now the library shows up in Smart Hub and videos can be played, even wireless.

Is that the full model number (any hyphens or spaces)? I can't find it on the DLNA product search.
The Samsung specific profile sets some of the flags differently. I'm a bit surprised it works with the generic DLNA setting.

Streamz · « **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2011, 02:52:03 am »

The full name is Samsung UE32D6530. US version is the same #, but starting with UN.

So what are the differences? It's easy for me to test, I'll just delete the library and build a new one using the Samsung specific profile.

What surprises me is that I can use DLNA without problems, but I can't play the same video in JRiver itself.
I'm using a fit PC with WinXP Pro and RDC to connect to is from my Win7 notebook. When I import (auto import in JRiver using when I place a video file in the designated folder) ad try to play in JRiver, I get the error "Media Center encountered errors while trying to play the last several files. Please make sure that the path in your media library points to the right location."

This happens with all types of files, except a WMV file.
Again, DLNA works perfectly (well, almost, a 720p file is a bit too much for the Atom Z530 in the Fit PC. When will ffmpeg multithreaded version be incorporated?)

bob · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2011, 12:31:29 pm »

Quote from: Streamz on July 07, 2011, 02:52:03 am

The full name is Samsung UE32D6530. US version is the same #, but starting with UN.

So what are the differences? It's easy for me to test, I'll just delete the library and build a new one using the Samsung specific profile.

Some of the Advanced options flags are set concerning extended content-type information and subtitle handling

Quote

What surprises me is that I can use DLNA without problems, but I can't play the same video in JRiver itself.
I'm using a fit PC with WinXP Pro and RDC to connect to is from my Win7 notebook. When I import (auto import in JRiver using when I place a video file in the designated folder) ad try to play in JRiver, I get the error "Media Center encountered errors while trying to play the last several files. Please make sure that the path in your media library points to the right location."

This happens with all types of files, except a WMV file.
Again, DLNA works perfectly (well, almost, a 720p file is a bit too much for the Atom Z530 in the Fit PC. When will ffmpeg multithreaded version be incorporated?)

You probably don't have the right filters to play your content in MC. FFmpeg conversion to mpeg2 for DLNA renderers is independent of the playback in MC itself. As for multithreaded ffmpeg, you could try dropping an executable in the roaming plugins where the existing one is to try it. The 530 is single core though so you'll probably only see a gain of 5% max from the hyperthreading.

Streamz · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2011, 01:39:57 pm »

Understood. I'll look into the filters (didn't bother to do so up until now).

The fit-PC should be able to handle 720p, let's see what has to be done there.

Streamz · « **Reply #23 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:40:06 am »

Did some research. I'm not sure if I understand the whole architecture.

The Samsung TV is using the DLNA server of JRiver. Videos are converted to MPEG2 by ffmpeg (?). This conversion takes up too much CPU power. In other words, the Z530 is simply not powerful enough. And ffmpeg-mt will not bring enough extra horsepower.
Now there's also the GMA500 chipset, which has HW acceleration. This offloads the CPU and makes it possible to handle 720p and even 1080p.
To make this happen, I need a specific codec. This codec is included in Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra. It's even recomended by Intel in their whitepaper on Atom/US15 chipset.

Now, can I make use of this GMA500/Codec in order to have a smooth playback? Or is this of no use, because ffmpeg conversion will not benefit from this?

(you see, I'm hardly an expert on this whole codec/filter/etc thing)

(edit: meant ffmpeg-mt will not bring..)

bob · « **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2011, 09:59:44 am »

Quote from: Streamz on July 08, 2011, 06:40:06 am

Did some research. I'm not sure if I understand the whole architecture.

The Samsung TV is using the DLNA server of JRiver. Videos are converted to MPEG2 by ffmpeg (?). This conversion takes up too much CPU power. In other words, the Z530 is simply not powerful enough. ffmpeg will not bring enough extra horsepower.
Now there's also the GMA500 chipset, which has HW acceleration. This offloads the CPU and makes it possible to handle 720p and even 1080p.
To make this happen, I need a specific codec. This codec is included in Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra. It's even recomended by Intel in their whitepaper on Atom/US15 chipset.

Now, can I make use of this GMA500/Codec in order to have a smooth playback? Or is this of no use, because ffmpeg conversion will not benefit from this?

(you see, I'm hardly an expert on this whole codec/filter/etc thing)

Oh that's interesting. There might be a way to make that GMA500 codec work in MC when displaying on the PC but it won't work for DLNA conversion. You'd need a ffmpeg with GMA500 support compiled in. We tried using the whole codec/filter thing to do the mpeg2 conversion for DLNA but it isn't reliable enough yet so it's been reverted back to the old method.

Streamz · « **Reply #25 on:** July 08, 2011, 10:52:13 am »

Glad I didn't bought PowerDVD then.

I like the DLNA implementation by Samsung, as I don't need any cabling (ethernet nor HDMI). Wireless is sufficient. But HD ovies are out apparently in this setup. I'll leave it for now. Next step is sound quality (which is rubbish now). So I'll connect a optical cable to a DA and see if the souns quality improves. Hopefully therese no or little loss in quality when the TV transfers the MPEG audio stream to an optical out..

What would be the optimal sound settings when using ffmpeg / MPEG2 conversion / DLNA?

bob · « **Reply #26 on:** July 08, 2011, 11:18:18 am »

Quote from: Streamz on July 08, 2011, 10:52:13 am

Glad I didn't bought PowerDVD then.

I like the DLNA implementation by Samsung, as I don't need any cabling (ethernet nor HDMI). Wireless is sufficient. But HD ovies are out apparently in this setup. I'll leave it for now. Next step is sound quality (which is rubbish now). So I'll connect a optical cable to a DA and see if the souns quality improves. Hopefully therese no or little loss in quality when the TV transfers the MPEG audio stream to an optical out..

What would be the optimal sound settings when using ffmpeg / MPEG2 conversion / DLNA?

If you leave the conversion at default it's 448khz AC3.

IlPadrino · « **Reply #27 on:** July 09, 2011, 12:18:24 pm »

Quote from: bob on June 30, 2011, 10:55:58 am

The Samsung 55C6400 is NOT certified as a DMR (remotely controlled renderer).
http://certification.dlna.org/certs/REG47202424.pdf

If you want to do a wireshark trace of trying to send content to it (search the forum for examples) and email the result to bob (at) jriver (dot) com, I'll look at it however since it's not certified to do DMR I don't have high hopes.

Just a thought, you should make sure the DLNA server you are using in MC is based off of the Samsung template and not the Generic one that's created by default. You should delete the Generic server and Add one based on the Samsung template if you haven't already.

As soon as I finish unpacking (we just moved from the East to the West Coast), I'll take you up on the offer to look at some traces.

Regarding the templates, the Samsung player doesn't work unless I have "MPEG video mimetype overide" checked, which is *not* in the Samsung template.

bob · « **Reply #28 on:** July 11, 2011, 10:01:49 am »

Quote from: IlPadrino on July 09, 2011, 12:18:24 pm

As soon as I finish unpacking (we just moved from the East to the West Coast), I'll take you up on the offer to look at some traces.

Regarding the templates, the Samsung player doesn't work unless I have "MPEG video mimetype overide" checked, which is *not* in the Samsung template.

Ugh, might need another Samsung template. The Sammy BD player I've got doesn't require the flag..

IlPadrino · « **Reply #29 on:** July 12, 2011, 11:00:59 pm »

Quote from: bob on July 11, 2011, 10:01:49 am

Ugh, might need another Samsung template. The Sammy BD player I've got doesn't require the flag..

I'm working with an LED television (Samsung 46C6400).

skeeterfood · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2011, 05:14:35 pm »

Quote from: IlPadrino on July 09, 2011, 12:18:24 pm

Regarding the templates, the Samsung player doesn't work unless I have "MPEG video mimetype overide" checked, which is *not* in the Samsung template.

I didn't know there was a Samsung template, but I came to the same conclusion that the "MPEG video mimetype override" needed to be checked for my Samsung LN40C650 TV. This allows me to play TV programs recorded by MC in the MPEG (non-JRTV) mode.

IlPadrino · « **Reply #31 on:** October 23, 2011, 11:02:55 am »

OK... I can't use the "I'm still unpacking" excuse - I've been on the Left Coast for three months now!

I'd like to resurrect this - I still can't use MC to send video or audio to my Samsung. I can, however, use WMP just fine to send media so it's not a limitation of the Samsung. What traces do I need to send?

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** October 23, 2011, 11:07:56 am »

Quote from: Streamz on July 03, 2011, 02:14:56 am

... I had to disable Windows7 Media Player network sharing service to get rid of it. Now the Samsung is only showing the MC DLNA server.

There were a couple posts from above that might help. This one and one about conversion.

IlPadrino · « **Reply #33 on:** October 23, 2011, 11:27:18 am »

I can disable the WMP sharing service easy enough... which I'd done in the past because it's a pain to have to choose the MC server every time on my Samsung. Regarding conversion, I can't send *anything*, including video, audio, or images (which should have any conversion issues, right?).

IlPadrino · « **Reply #34 on:** October 23, 2011, 11:54:53 am »

Quote from: bob on June 30, 2011, 10:55:58 am

If you want to do a wireshark trace of trying to send content to it (search the forum for examples) and email the result to bob (at) jriver (dot) com, I'll look at it however since it's not certified to do DMR I don't have high hopes.

Done... I tried to send a photo and a video with no joy.

bob · « **Reply #35 on:** October 25, 2011, 03:36:11 pm »

Quote from: IlPadrino on October 23, 2011, 11:54:53 am

Done... I tried to send a photo and a video with no joy.

Unfortunately, it appears to have incomplete firmware support for DMR. Your dump was a bit tough to read through since it's got windows media player stuff in it but the pertinent chunk of dialog is here (abbreviated):

MC GET /dmr/SamsungMRDesc.xml HTTP/1.1 (we ask for the sammy device description)

Sammy (it replies, along with other stuff, that in the service list there is a rendering control url)
blah blah blah
<friendlyName>TV-46C6400</friendlyName>
<manufacturer>Samsung Electronics</manufacturer>
<manufacturerURL>http://www.samsung.com</manufacturerURL>
<modelDescription>Samsung DTV DMR</modelDescription>
<modelName>Samsung DTV DMR</modelName>
<modelNumber>1.0</modelNumber>
<modelURL>http://www.samsung.com</modelURL>
blah blah blah
<serviceList>
<service>
<serviceType>urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1</serviceType>
<serviceId>urn:upnp-org:serviceId:RenderingControl</serviceId>
<controlURL>/upnp/control/RenderingControl1</controlURL>
<eventSubURL>/upnp/event/RenderingControl1</eventSubURL>
<SCPDURL>RenderingControl1.xml</SCPDURL>
</service>
blah blah blah

MC GET /RenderingControl1.xml HTTP/1.1 (so we ask for the rendering control)

Sammy (it replies, oops, I don't have one)
HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
Connection: close
Content-Length: 0
Server: DMRND/0.5

Unless the firmware is upgraded to provide a rendering control, it's the end of the story.

IlPadrino · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:44:10 am »

Bob,

Thanks for looking at it... sorry I didn't think to turn off the WMP service to make it an easier task! I will check to see if there's been a firmware upgrade in the last six months, but I fear the answer will be no. So how is WMP able to send stuff to the Samsung no problem? Would it be helpful to send you a trace of that? I'm out of town for a few days but could send it this weekend.

I know this may not seem like too big a deal, but when it comes to the WAF, using the Samsung interface to find the media is losing me points, big time! With WMP, I can just tell it to play to the television and everything happens automagically - WMP does everything needed to start playing the video on the television.

bob · « **Reply #37 on:** October 27, 2011, 10:19:28 am »

It's possible WMP isn't using DLNA to send to the Sammy. It could be doing the Media Extender stuff (like the xbox 360).

If you did a short dump of turning on the TV and sending it a small file with WMP and send the dump to me I could check it.

IlPadrino · « **Reply #38 on:** November 01, 2011, 01:32:35 pm »

Quote from: bob on October 27, 2011, 10:19:28 am

It's possible WMP isn't using DLNA to send to the Sammy. It could be doing the Media Extender stuff (like the xbox 360).

If you did a short dump of turning on the TV and sending it a small file with WMP and send the dump to me I could check it.

I sent what is certainly *not* a small file, but I wasn't sure how to cut out it down... if I need to make it smaller, I'll try to open it in a text editor and delete most of it. Do you use wireshark to look at the trace? Or is there a better utility available?

bob · « **Reply #39 on:** November 01, 2011, 03:24:35 pm »

Quote from: IlPadrino on November 01, 2011, 01:32:35 pm

I sent what is certainly *not* a small file, but I wasn't sure how to cut out it down... if I need to make it smaller, I'll try to open it in a text editor and delete most of it. Do you use wireshark to look at the trace? Or is there a better utility available?

I use wireshark because I can see all of the details and both sides of an exchange but some here prefer Fiddler2.

The dump is interesting.
Can you tell me what options you have checked in MC under advanced?

IlPadrino · « **Reply #40 on:** November 01, 2011, 07:41:02 pm »

Quote from: bob on November 01, 2011, 03:24:35 pm

Can you tell me what options you have checked in MC under advanced?

Media Network -> Advanced:
DLNA Server (check)
DLNA Renderer (check)
DLNA Controller (check)

Add or configure DLNA servers... -> Advanced:
DLNA (check)
DLNAExtra (check)
MPEG video mimetype override (check)
Video MimeTypeOverride: video/mpeg
Video DLNA Override: MPEG_PS

bob · « **Reply #41 on:** November 03, 2011, 10:06:52 am »

Quote from: IlPadrino on November 01, 2011, 07:41:02 pm

Media Network -> Advanced:
DLNA Server (check)
DLNA Renderer (check)
DLNA Controller (check)

Add or configure DLNA servers... -> Advanced:
DLNA (check)
DLNAExtra (check)
MPEG video mimetype override (check)
Video MimeTypeOverride: video/mpeg
Video DLNA Override: MPEG_PS

Thanks, hang tight, should have something for you to test soon.

bob · « **Reply #42 on:** November 10, 2011, 12:50:13 pm »

It could be working in 17 now. Can you check it?

IlPadrino · « **Reply #43 on:** November 11, 2011, 01:51:40 pm »

Quote from: bob on November 10, 2011, 12:50:13 pm

It could be working in 17 now. Can you check it?

Checked and not working with the latest beta (17.0.32). I've emailed you a capture of the fail in hopes it'll help.

bob · « **Reply #44 on:** November 11, 2011, 03:38:53 pm »

Got the traces, thanks. I think the next build (33 or greater) may do it...

IlPadrino · « **Reply #45 on:** November 13, 2011, 10:23:05 am »

Quote from: bob on November 11, 2011, 03:38:53 pm

Got the traces, thanks. I think the next build (33 or greater) may do it...

Checked and not working with the latest beta (17.0.33). I've emailed you the wireshark trace. Would it be more helpful if I send you another WMP trace (smaller this time - maybe I'll just push an image to the TV)?

IlPadrino · « **Reply #46 on:** November 16, 2011, 06:35:13 pm »

Thanks, Bob, for the work in getting this fixed. I'm very happy to report the latest version of the Beta (17.0.34) is now working completely with my Samsung. I can now use MC to control the TV as a DLNA controller. Joy!

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Author Topic: Samsung TV's & MC16 DLNA (Read 23770 times)