Topic: POLL Audiophiles: Do you want a "Pure Direct" Mode? (Read 35750 times)

pcstockton · « **Reply #50 on:** November 12, 2011, 01:17:05 am »

Quote from: audunth on November 11, 2011, 11:22:07 pm

Having MC manipulate stuff in the operating system is a bad, BAD idea. A bug in MC could then give you a BSOD or even screw up the operating system to the point of having to reinstall it all. BAD idea!

I don't really see the point of a pure direct mode when you can just set up a pure direct zone. An audiophile who is a moron when it comes to fiddling with and tweaking settings to get the best sound quality would never ever use a computer to play audio in the first place or would have someone setup and tweak the computer for him/her.

No, it wouldn't. It needs to be there so you can choose whether to apply the processing in Output format before or after the other DSP filters/options.

Chillax..... we all use MC differently.

mark_h · « **Reply #51 on:** November 12, 2011, 02:28:18 am »

As the snake-oil brigade seem to be out to derail this thread I think it's worth restating that we audiophiles understand that MC already provides a pure data stream IF setup correctly. And that any new "audiophile mode" WOULD NOT improve the sound over what is already available. But what a "PURE" mode option would do would be to add clarity to MC for all users and allow a simple shortcut to getting a completely pure output mode without having to drill through lots of menus double checking various options are set correctly. *That* seems worthwhile...

kensn · « **Reply #52 on:** November 12, 2011, 02:54:03 am »

I would find it most useful to set the options for file type. Just set it ...and forget it....

Ken

audunth · « **Reply #53 on:** November 12, 2011, 05:36:20 am »

Quote from: pcstockton on November 12, 2011, 01:17:05 am

Chillax..... we all use MC differently.

True. I'm not saying I object to a pure direct button/hotkey or whatever, I'm just saying it's already there through the use of zones. Each zone can have it's own settings. I use this to switch between 2.0 and 7.1 and for example.

New tweaks to MC to increase sound quality are always welcome, I guess we all can agree on that. Like fixing the memory issue mojave mentions in post #9.

Just don't start messing with Windows services etc. cause that's asking for trouble. A better idea would be to add a Wiki howto page on setting up Windows for best possible sound quality.

audunth · « **Reply #54 on:** November 12, 2011, 05:42:22 am »

Quote from: kensn on November 12, 2011, 02:54:03 am

I would find it most useful to set the options for file type. Just set it ...and forget it....

Ken

And for us movie-audiophiles, change the filter selection so that we can use different decoders for, say, DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD within an MKV file. Make the filter selection per codec, not per file extension.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #55 on:** November 12, 2011, 08:28:35 am »

Quote from: DarkPenguin on November 11, 2011, 11:40:17 pm

They could throw away the rest of the DSP for all I care.

Now, THAT would be a bad idea. Even if I consider myself an audiophile, I also spend some of my time not being that, i.e. have different needs and practical approaches to things. MC currently satisfies those needs!

RAZOR87 · « **Reply #56 on:** November 12, 2011, 08:30:48 am »

I would like to see the same features and settings like Jplay, SAP and PlayPcmWin.

Hiram · « **Reply #57 on:** November 12, 2011, 09:27:18 am »

Quote from: audunth on November 12, 2011, 05:42:22 am

... Make the filter selection per codec, not per file extension.

That would be absolutely great.

jgreen · « **Reply #58 on:** November 12, 2011, 01:46:22 pm »

Well, apparently I've been upgraded to the "Snake Oil Brigade" for asserting exactly what Mark_h said in his previous post.

FWIW, "we audiophiles" includes a number of members who do not understand that MC outputs unaltered audio when configured to do so. In fact, this thread was in response to that very issue, and when JRiver (I'm not affiliated, I didn't even get a discount on software) tried to point this out, they were attacked for being "unresponsive" to the customer.

So mark_h, please tone down the rhetoric, and contribute your knowledge constructively. A toggle button to clear ALL dsp setting is a GREAT idea, as I said previously, and I hope it gets implemented.

Bill S · « **Reply #59 on:** November 12, 2011, 02:12:59 pm »

My preference is not to not do it if we're talking about a button that is just a toggle for 'pure mode'. IMO the GUI already has a lot going on and I'm not sure that something of such a limited scope for such a small group of folks is justified. But if the toggle is for 'presets' where the user can select previously saved user-created setting configurations (which could include pure mode, perhaps out-of-box) this functionality would be useful to more folks. Just IMO of course

soundqcar · « **Reply #60 on:** November 12, 2011, 02:51:06 pm »

Quote from: mark_h on November 11, 2011, 05:54:53 am

My name is Mark, I am an audiophile.

I read all the guides on how best to set up MC for perfect audio, which involved a lot of settings choices.

I want no processing, no DSP, nothing, nada - just a robust stream of the original data sent to my DAC for playback.

It seems that MC already offers this, but requires a bit of effort on the part of owners to set up (reading WIKI/options choices/etc). Would be nice if MC offered a PURE mode that simply bypasses everything and offers a 100% guaranteed clean stream free of any processing. If nothing else it would remove confusion.

What Mark said!!!

I want my Meitner DAC doing all the processing.

dtc · « **Reply #61 on:** November 12, 2011, 04:59:46 pm »

I would be fine with a detailed entry in the Wiki describing how to set up MC for the best audiophile performance. Or perhaps a sticky in the thread for each version.

Per mojove above, how about an option to use more memory when playing from memory? I could easily allocate 1G to memory play and I am sure people with bigger systems could use even more.

phusis · « **Reply #62 on:** November 12, 2011, 06:06:02 pm »

Quote from: mojave on November 11, 2011, 10:12:27 am

From reading various forums here are some things that I think would appeal to those wanting a Pure Direct mode (you could call it Audiophile Audio mode):
The ability to maximum memory use for memory playback. I currently have songs that won't play with the play from memory option. However, I have plenty of memory for the song available.
Turns off the video when playback starts and doesn't turn it back on until there is a Stop.
Shuts down Windows processes that use the hard drive. This would turn off indexing or anything else that could cause hard drive activity.
Makes the player display Audio only features. The tree or Theater View only display Audio and Playlists.
JRiver won't check for updates, won't access YADB, or do anything else over the internet.
It won't allow for Direct Sound as an output method.
Track switching, Stop, or Seek is gapless with no cross-fading
You could even have the JRiver Audiophile Audio window take exclusive focus and not allow switching to other programs. This helps people think that this mode is serious about only playing audio.

You could say that "JRiver offers an Audiophile Audio mode that minimizes video, disk, and internet activity to provide the highest quality of sound output. Audio output bypass the Windows mixer and takes exclusive control our your audio device."

Above highlighted features are especially welcome, also being that they're not available options as is; these would be very worthwhile to maximize sound quality!

Another playback program, JPLAY, has inspired me in this minimalist "clearing the road" direction, and judged by the trial version their efforts in this regard are indeed audible - most pronounced when using their ace-feature, "Hibernation Mode." There's no doubt that this feature gives a better resoluted, more organic, free flowing, and natural sonic presentation than J River MC16/17 is capable of, though it comes at a great price in cutting one off from any access to the program/PC during playback.

If J River could somehow make above features(posted by mojave) as well as others come into play, so to speak, without losing the very basic access to ones music library, then they would be most cherised by me.

Great thread initiative, jmone!

swinster · « **Reply #63 on:** November 12, 2011, 07:38:45 pm »

I love MC as a system to stream a large quantity of different digital media to different devices around the house (or beyond). Unfortunatly, not all of that digital media is of the same quality, and whilst I am all for the ifra of getting as close to the original as possible, sometimes you just have to tweak.

I really want to listen to music - I listen to vinyl, so sorry to say, MC can't replace the pleasure associated with putting an LP on a record deck.

Blaine78 · « **Reply #64 on:** November 12, 2011, 09:52:12 pm »

Keeping 2channel audio streams out of the JRSS matrix. Watching videos i use 'JRSS 2.0 surround', but disable it by changing it back to 'source number of channels' when listening to 2channel audio. that would be another good feature for the 'audio direct' button.

mark_h · « **Reply #65 on:** November 13, 2011, 02:18:31 am »

Quote from: jgreen on November 12, 2011, 01:46:22 pm

Well, apparently I've been upgraded to the "Snake Oil Brigade" for asserting exactly what Mark_h said in his previous post.

So mark_h, please tone down the rhetoric, and contribute your knowledge constructively.

I apologise that you (incorrectly) felt I was targeting you in my "snake oil brigade" comment.

What I was (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to do was to draw a line at that point in the thread by succinctly restating what we already know to be the current state of MC's support for pure audio, so that the thread could stay focussed on the topic.

Again, I apologise for you misunderstanding my intent.

Matt · « **Reply #66 on:** November 13, 2011, 08:24:24 am »

Quote from: Blaine78 on November 12, 2011, 09:52:12 pm

Keeping 2channel audio streams out of the JRSS matrix. Watching videos i use 'JRSS 2.0 surround', but disable it by changing it back to 'source number of channels' when listening to 2channel audio. that would be another good feature for the 'audio direct' button.

From the note on the dialog 'No changes are made if the same number of channels is selected as the input.'

All Output Format settings make no changes when the input matches the selected output.

Blaine78 · « **Reply #67 on:** November 19, 2011, 11:33:05 pm »

for the pure direct button, to be able also turn off the 'Output Format' DSP when listening to music, but auto turn on for video (as need jrss for 2 ch mix down), and auto turn off again for music.

also an idea... have what DSP is on (including output) displayed in the display at the top of MC (the programmable display that is shown in normal view with the spectrum analyser, time, artist, track etc etc...) would find this useful than having to check DSP rack.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #68 on:** November 20, 2011, 01:28:11 am »

Quote from: Blaine78 on November 19, 2011, 11:33:05 pm

for the pure direct button, to be able also turn off the 'Output Format' DSP when listening to music, but auto turn on for video (as need jrss for 2 ch mix down), and auto turn off again for music.

also an idea... have what DSP is on (including output) displayed in the display at the top of MC (the programmable display that is shown in normal view with the spectrum analyser, time, artist, track etc etc...) would find this useful than having to check DSP rack.

This is quite easily done using zones with different DSP settings.

Blaine78 · « **Reply #69 on:** November 20, 2011, 02:08:54 am »

Quote from: Trumpetguy on November 20, 2011, 01:28:11 am

This is quite easily done using zones with different DSP settings.

just use one zone here. creating zones adds complication, remembering to switch zones for either music or video. . very good idea though

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #70 on:** November 20, 2011, 03:36:45 am »

Quote from: Blaine78 on November 20, 2011, 02:08:54 am

just use one zone here. creating zones adds complication, remembering to switch zones for either music or video. . very good idea though

Well, any different audio settings for different purposes would inevitably add complexity, regardless of the name of the button...
The name of the zone is seen in the playback window. I have named my zones "Music 2.0 16/44.1", "Movie 7.1 24/48" etc. This way I quite easily can see the audio setup currently in use. And of course zones can be used to create different configs for all options, not only audio.

jimmy neutron · « **Reply #71 on:** November 20, 2011, 04:20:20 am »

Quote from: audunth on November 11, 2011, 11:22:07 pm

An audiophile who is a moron when it comes to fiddling with and tweaking settings to get the best sound quality would never ever use a computer to play audio in the first place or would have someone setup and tweak the computer for him/h
R

Computers are predominantly becoming the center piece for hi res playback and can offer better sound quality than standalone units. Heck, even your most hi end playback equipment is nothing more than a pc anyway. That being said I want the best stream available to go from MC to my DAC. If having a single button that will accomplish this can be put into a config menu then I'm all for it. I mean why not? Because it can clutter the screen? Really? 1 button? Or because it can already be done with a huge amount of tweaking? That's asking for trouble. Having a PURE button is no different than having a TONE defeat button on a stereo. It makes it a single click fool proof way to get the best stream out of MC. I'm all for improving any part of MC that will result in a purer and closer to audiphile playback. I think one thing that everyone can agree on is that trying to achieve this is something we want. Everyone uses MC differently and having the various tools to let all of us achieve this is most certainly welcome by me.

Jimmy

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #72 on:** November 20, 2011, 10:16:56 am »

Quote from: jimmy neutron on November 20, 2011, 04:20:20 am

Computers are predominantly becoming the center piece for hi res playback and can offer better sound quality than standalone units. Heck, even your most hi end playback equipment is nothing more than a pc anyway. That being said I want the best stream available to go from MC to my DAC. If having a single button that will accomplish this can be put into a config menu then I'm all for it. I mean why not? Because it can clutter the screen? Really? 1 button? Or because it can already be done with a huge amount of tweaking? That's asking for trouble. Having a PURE button is no different than having a TONE defeat button on a stereo. It makes it a single click fool proof way to get the best stream out of MC. I'm all for improving any part of MC that will result in a purer and closer to audiphile playback. I think one thing that everyone can agree on is that trying to achieve this is something we want. Everyone uses MC differently and having the various tools to let all of us achieve this is most certainly welcome by me.

Jimmy

It isn't a huge amount of tweaking. You'll have to set your output bit depth for your device in either mode. If you can find the DSP for that you're golden. (And you would have found the DSP already in order to turn it on so that MC can totally hose your sound path...)

pcstockton · « **Reply #73 on:** November 20, 2011, 11:45:26 am »

Quote from: DarkPenguin on November 20, 2011, 10:16:56 am

It isn't a huge amount of tweaking. You'll have to set your output bit depth for your device in either mode. If you can find the DSP for that you're golden. (And you would have found the DSP already in order to turn it on so that MC can totally hose your sound path...)

Why do you resist an easy way to do this? What do you fear it will ruin for you? Are you worried you might hit the button and lose your EQ?

It seems like you are obtusely arguing for the sake of it.

I can understand people wanting it. I can also understand the developers not caring to implement it. No big deal either way.

But I dont get why you would oppose it if only to be contrary. What do you lose if it exists?

Curious,
Patrick

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #74 on:** November 20, 2011, 11:56:43 am »

Quote from: pcstockton on November 20, 2011, 11:45:26 am

Why do you resist an easy way to do this? What do you fear it will ruin for you? Are you worried you might hit the button and lose your EQ?

It seems like you are obtusely arguing for the sake of it.

I can understand people wanting it. I can also understand the developers not caring to implement it. No big deal either way.

But I dont get why you would oppose it if only to be contrary. What do you lose if it exists?

Curious,
Patrick

It seems like you haven't actually read anything I've posted.

jimmy neutron · « **Reply #75 on:** November 20, 2011, 12:22:25 pm »

Yeah. I just don't understand why someone would be so tiffed if MC had a DIRECT button. It's no big deal for users who are familiar with the tweaking part of it, but it can be pretty daunting for a new user or someone just looking for a quick and easy set up. If you don't want to use it, no problem - tweak awy. If you do want to use it then there it is - just push it. Either way, the interface won't be anymore clutterd by having 1 extra button, and the interface won't be that much more clunkier than it is now. I understand some people are so passionate about MC but the developers asked us to provide feedback and feature requests on this beta MC17, let's not start fighting with each other and belittleing each other's ideas. Let's provide the feedback, requests, and comments, and let the Dev team decide what should be implemented in the final version.

Jimmy

Blaine78 · « **Reply #76 on:** November 20, 2011, 02:32:06 pm »

a button will be very valuable to have in clear view on front of MC knowing that ALL DSP/Output Formatting/Processing is turned off when pressed. I like the digital stream clean and direct for music playing.

jmone · « **Reply #77 on:** December 03, 2011, 06:30:12 pm »

A new feature has been added to MC regarding the Audio Path - discussion on this is at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68182.0

MrC · « **Reply #78 on:** December 03, 2011, 07:34:51 pm »

I think your new moniker will be Ben Franklin.

INTERACT FORUM

Poll

Do you want a "Pure Direct" Mode that minimises all processing?

Author Topic: POLL Audiophiles: Do you want a "Pure Direct" Mode? (Read 35750 times)

Hiram