Topic: hdcd support/plugin (Read 19936 times)

v_erich · « **on:** January 12, 2012, 07:30:19 am »

Hi,

is there a HDCD support in MC17 or a plugin?
I did not find anything about that.

Thanks,
Erich

Sandy B Ridge · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2012, 10:47:41 am »

Good question.

If MC plays a lossless copy of the disc in a bitperfect way, does the HDCD bits and bobs get out into the DAC/receiver, or do the discs need a special ripping method to preserve the extra data?

I guess there are two questions, first is as above, can MC output the HDCD bits to the DAC to decode and secondly can MC decode the extra data itself and send it to an internal sound card?

SBR

Edit: Quick search of the forum. Some interest in this a couple of years ago. Seems Q1 is yes and Q2 is no at the mo.

dtc · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2012, 11:11:09 am »

dBpoweramp can rip a HD CD and expand the HDCD bits to 20 bits. It uses a program that was originally called HDCD.exe. It produces a 24/44 file that can then be put into J River as a normal file. It does the HDCD bit expansion, but does not provide the filters of the original Pacific Microsonics chip

Frobozz · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2012, 03:40:26 am »

I don't know of a plugin for MC that will process HDCD like there is for Foobar.

What I do for HDCD discs is make two copies for the disc in my library. One copy that is just as it is ripped from the CD (16 bit at 44100 Hz), and one copy processed to decode the HDCD info (20 bit padded to 24 bit at 44100 Hz).

There are a couple of tools you can use to decode the HDCD data. There's some info about ripping and processing HDCD discs in this thread at the Steve Hoffman Music Forums. If you have dBpoweramp you can use that to process the HDCD. There is also a freeware program called CUETools that you can use. If you don't have a CUE file for the rip you can have CUETools generate one. You can also use HDCD.exe but it's a command line program.

I find CUETools to be a handy way to decode HDCD to a 24-bit file. Go to the Settings dialog in CUETools to configure how it detects and processes HDCD.

In order to detect and process HDCD you will need to have ripped to a lossless format and have done no other post processing on the file (like normalization, etc.). The ripped audio needs to be just as it was from the CD.

v_erich · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2012, 04:03:04 am »

Thanks for the informations.
I will use dbpoweramp for ripping in the future and will have an eye for the special discs.

thanks,
Erich

Frobozz · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2012, 04:28:55 am »

Add the "Track Technical" column to dBpoweramp. That column will tell you if the CD has HDCD or pre-emphasis.

Insert a CD. Right-click on the column headings where it says "Title" "Length" "Rip Status" etc. And select "Track Technical" to add the new column.

There's a list of some HDCD titles at Head-Fi in a thread. There's other lists out on the web as well. None of the lists are complete.

v_erich · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2012, 05:29:05 am »

Thanks, good information.
Have to rip a lot of CD's for a non-technical friend because of starting with NAS+Multiroom audio, there I will switch to dBpoweramp.

Best regards,
Erich

magnust · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2012, 07:38:42 am »

I have quite a few HDCDs ripped as 16 bit. Playing them with MC17 I'm not getting the benefit of HDCD.

So my question is:

- Should I convert all the HDCD ripped files to 24 bit using dbpoweramp. Then they'll all play correctly - as converted by dbpoweramp - in MC17

or

- Should I hope for HDCD playback support in MC17? This would IMHO be much better, just like it was intended with the HDCD chip decoding on the fly during playback. And I'll have my ripped files 100% intact. If HDCD decoding filtering or something ever changes I'll have the correct files to benefit from this.

So, is HDCD support in MC something that can happen?

Matias · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2012, 12:56:10 pm »

I also use the HDCD plugin to convert my 16/44 rips to 24/44 flacs with the added deconverted bits.
But this is foobar.

So.... when will MC support on-the-fly HDCD decoding??? ?

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2012, 01:54:49 pm »

Is HDCD decoding code available?

All I've seen is an HDCD.exe binary, written by Christopher Key. But he hasn't been on HA for 3 years.

Matias · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2012, 01:59:37 pm »

Maybe you can contact Gumboot, he has been working on this last year as seen on the component page:
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_hdcd

Version 1.14 highlights: Further optimizations from Gumboot.
Current version
1.14, released on 2011-12-10

Here's his talk about it:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=30999&view=findpost&p=778594

And his profile:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=d92220862e5d6d43734a377e61e1d716&showuser=95728

That is as far as I can go. Now it is up to you.

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2012, 02:13:32 pm »

I sent Gumboot a private message on Hydrogen Audio. If anyone has an email address for him, please let me know (I'm matt at jriver dot com).

Thanks.

mojave · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2012, 09:23:31 am »

You may run into problems as a retail product since Microsoft holds the patent for HDCD. On the other hand, maybe they will give you the code. I believe Windows Media Player 9 will play HDCD disks that are ripped.

Frobozz · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2012, 09:50:51 am »

Quote from: mojave on May 02, 2012, 09:23:31 am

You may run into problems as a retail product since Microsoft holds the patent for HDCD. On the other hand, maybe they will give you the code. I believe Windows Media Player 9 will play HDCD disks that are ripped.

There's no royalties for PC software versions designed to operate on the Windows operating system.

This could crush any hopes for a Mac version of MC.

Matias · « **Reply #14 on:** May 16, 2012, 08:46:55 am »

Matt, could you please give us an update if this feature is going to be implemented, if it is in development already, or on queue or ... ?

Thanks.

Matt · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2012, 08:50:11 am »

I didn't hear back from Gumboot.

We need some sort of HDCD decoder code. I don't want to try to backwards engineer it.

If you can get in contact with Gumboot, please have him email matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.

Matias · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:03:50 am »

Matt, I don't want to be rude, but even if you don't get the code "for free", aren't you guys supposed to, you know, study the specifications and develop it yourselves? ? That is what they did afterall... and gave it away for free.

Matt · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:04:42 am »

Quote from: Matias on May 16, 2012, 09:03:50 am

Matt, I don't want to be rude, but even if you don't get the code "for free", aren't you guys supposed to, you know, study the specifications and develop it yourselves? ?

Could you post a link to the specifications for how to decode the HDCD bits?

Matias · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:10:49 am »

Matt, I don't have that link and also not all the answers. But again, someone else found out where they are, studied them, developed it and gave away for free. You want it all ready and given to you??

This is really frustrating, I mean, you charge for this program, I expected you guys to do the homework and not your users!

Alex B · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:42:20 am »

Unfortunately, even if the decoder will be implemented, most HDCD recordings are not going to sound any better.

The available dynamic range has never been a problem with Red book audio. Only the peak extension feature would make HDCD encoding justified. In theory the peak extension feature could be used for providing two different masterings, a more compressed version for portables, car audio, etc and a version with full dynamic range for high fidelity listening sessions. However it is rarely used at all and even when it is used its effect seems to be very mild at best.

When the HDCD plugin for foobar2000 was introduced I tested over 2000 losslesly ripped audio CDs and found about 25 HDCD encoded releases. Only 4 or 5 of them had peak extension enabled and the extension seemed be to about 2-3 dB at most. After applying replay gain (i.e. matching the overall playback volume levels) it was almost impossible to hear a difference between the standard and "HDCD with peak extension" decoded versions.

To make things even worse, some of these found "HDCD" releases were compilations that contained standard tracks and HDCD tracks on the same disc without any visible HDCD labeling. Apparently the producers of these compilations were not aware that some of the original recordings were HDCD encoded, did not understand what HDCD encoding means, or just did not bother to fix the issue.

Matias · « **Reply #20 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:53:17 am »

I don't think Reference Recordings will agree that it does not make an audible difference since they are using HDCD in almost all their CD catalog. And if a player can automatically find and use the HDCD bits even if the CD does not state that, the better.
I have tested a HDCD albums converted into 24/44 with foobar and I do find there is an audible difference. And since JRiver is supposed to be an audiophile's player (among others), there should be no doubt that those bits must be decoded.

ashman5 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2013, 08:11:45 am »

old post reply...

would this help for HDCD implementation. it looks to be the source code for HDCD.exe

http://hdcd.cjkey.org.uk

jherbert · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2013, 10:43:18 am »

Any news on this? hdcd plus emphasis are really missing when ripping with mediacenter. It even would be sufficient to get a warning on any og those used, so I could switch to foobar or dbpoweramp for those occasions. Also, it does not matter if these are rare cases. As a leading product jriver mediacenter should just cover them.

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Author Topic: hdcd support/plugin (Read 19936 times)