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[shAf]

Applying JRSS 5.1 for stereo music is impressive (... leastwise with my system).  However, I cannot find where this output format is applied only to stereo(?)  That is, if I (1) configure the output format for 5.1 channels (instead of source #), and (2) then configure mixing for JRSS, am I assured that this is applied only to 2ch stereo and not to (e.g.) DVD playback??

[glynor]

When you are using one of the Red October settings, MC will properly decode digital surround audio formats*, and send them out via PCM.  They will still be decoded to "true surround" (with discreet channels, not upmixed like JRSS does with stereo), but you have the benefit of being able to still use MC's DSP for room correction, normalization, EQ, and all that.

However, the Dolby Digital or TrueHD lights on your receiver won't light up because MC will be sending out PCM over HDMI, or out to analog outs on the sound card.  Assuming you are using HDMI out, that's not really bad.  HDMI can send at least 6 channels (maybe 8, I'd have to look it up because I don't have a 7.1 speaker set) of full-quality uncompressed PCM audio.  It is no worse than TrueHD or DTS-MA to use multichannel PCM, so long as the decoder filters are working right.  But it annoys some people that they have a nice receiver that has fancy decoders that aren't being used.

On the other hand, if you do have a nice receiver, and you've already done your room correction and EQ there anyway (so you're not using those fancy effects in MC's DSP), then you can "bitstream" the formats directly out over HDMI.  This sends the undecoded audio stream inside your video files directly out to the receiver without decoding it at all, and lets your receiver do it.  Enable this in the Options -> Video -> General Video Settings.  This is particularly handy if you have an older receiver that doesn't have HDMI inputs, and you only have Optical/Coax SPDIF inputs.  Since SPDIF can't send 6 channels of uncompressed PCM audio, then it would be best to send the raw Dolby Digital or DTS directly to the receiver and let it handle it (rather than have MC decode it, DSP it, and then re-encode it to lossy AC3 again).

If you are using HDMI out, then it lights up those pretty DTS-MA and TrueHD lights on your receiver, which might give you a warm glow in your belly since you spent all that money.

Either way will work.  JRSS only upmixes when it has to, not when there is a true multichannel source there.

* I'm not actually 100% positive what the status of DTS-MA and TrueHD decoding is in Red October out of the box.  In the old days, you had to copy files from an installation of a BluRay decoder over into the LAV Audio directory to get this to work.  That may not be the case anymore (or maybe TrueHD works and DTS-MA doesn't).  I don't know.  If you are curious, it would be best to get a comment from jmone or nev.

[glynor]

Regarding my * note above: I just tested a file I know has DTS-MA on my system that uses analog outs, and it looks like it is decoding the DTS-MA properly.  The Stream Selection menu shows it as the selected audio stream anyway.

Again, it would be good to get a comment from jmone or nev confirming this though.

[shAf]

Regarding my * note above: I just tested a file I know has DTS-MA on my system that uses analog outs, and it looks like it is decoding the DTS-MA properly.  The Stream Selection menu shows it as the selected audio stream anyway.
...

My TV is showing that MC is delivering 'PCM', whereas before making the change to JRSS it would indicate (e.g.) 'Dolby5.1' and that MC was delivering the appropriate bitstream which was my preference.  How do I determine that MC is delivering the appropriate 'PCM' stream?

[Hendrik]

* I'm not actually 100% positive what the status of DTS-MA and TrueHD decoding is in Red October out of the box.  In the old days, you had to copy files from an installation of a BluRay decoder over into the LAV Audio directory to get this to work.  That may not be the case anymore (or maybe TrueHD works and DTS-MA doesn't).  I don't know.  If you are curious, it would be best to get a comment from jmone or nev.

TrueHD works flawlessly, and always has.
DTS-HD MA will only decode the DTS "core" (which usually is 5.1 48Khz) unless you supply the dtsdecoderdll.dll, which then enables full decoding of the HD lossless parts.

So, in any case you'll get audio, in the DTS-HD case you'll only get the "non-HD" audio, unless you provide the ArcSoft dts decoder.

[Alex B]

My TV is showing that MC is delivering 'PCM', whereas before making the change to JRSS it would indicate (e.g.) 'Dolby5.1' and that MC was delivering the appropriate bitstream which was my preference.  How do I determine that MC is delivering the appropriate 'PCM' stream?

It might help to answer your question if you could describe your system in detail. I mean the complete device chain that you have after the MC machine.

For example: Do you use the HDMI output for everything, or DVI for video + S/PDIF for audio, or something else? Do you use a HT receiver as a video "switch box" or is the TV connected directly to the computer? What receiver, TV and other devices do you have (exactly)? Etc...

[shAf]

It might help to answer your question if you could describe your system in detail. ...

Video & audio is via HDMI from MC17 on a 64bit Win7 computer ... which goes to a Yamaha 6063 (US 667?) receiver,  and from there goes to my Sony HDTV via HDMI.  All other devices (eg, Blueray player) go to the AVR via HDMI, and all are configured for bitstreaming, not PCM ... but the TV will handle what the AVR sends it, Bs or PCM.

MC17 had been configured for bitstreaming via WASAPI, and all was well until I tried configuring stereo audio (ie, music) for JRSS ... no other changes were made.   "Red October" is enabled.  Anything else?

[glynor]

Shaf, do this:

Make sure regular Audio is working properly.  When you play music, your Yamaha should show PCM input.
Change Options -> Video -> General Video Settings -> Bitstreaming to HDMI

Once you do that, you will get DTS, Dolby Digital, TrueHD, and DTS-MA passed through to your amp unaltered.  Stereo audio will be upmixed by JRSS.
If that option is set to None (the default) then MC will decode the audio and will send PCM through to your amp, which will allow MC's DSP and other audio features to be enabled.

As I mentioned above, there are benefits on both sides of this coin.  Neither is explicitly "higher quality" than the other.

There was one point in the MC beta development when this option got reset back to the default (I'm not sure why, some architectural change required it).  If you need it, you need to re-enable it (this was a long while ago).

TrueHD works flawlessly, and always has.
DTS-HD MA will only decode the DTS "core" (which usually is 5.1 48Khz) unless you supply the dtsdecoderdll.dll, which then enables full decoding of the HD lossless parts.

So, in any case you'll get audio, in the DTS-HD case you'll only get the "non-HD" audio, unless you provide the ArcSoft dts decoder.

Thanks.  That's what I thought, but I couldn't remember the details.

Assuming you have that file, where do you copy it to?

[Hendrik]

Assuming you have that file, where do you copy it to?

Usually the folder where the filter is, however MC cleans that out when it upgrades the filter, so i guess the MC17 folder itself would do (where the Media Center 17.exe lives)

[CountryBumkin]

I copy the dtsdecoderdll.dll file to the System32 folder (or System32 (WOW64)  "I think its called if you run 64 bit).

[Hendrik]

That works too. Just needs to be one path in the DLL lookup path.

[fitbrit]

HDMI can send at least 6 channels (maybe 8, I'd have to look it up because I don't have a 7.1 speaker set) of full-quality uncompressed PCM audio.

It's 8 channels for sure.

[glynor]

It's 8 channels for sure.

Thanks.  That's really what I thought.  Can it do more?  I know DisplayPort can carry a crap-load of channels.

[fitbrit]

Thanks.  That's really what I thought.  Can it do more?  I know DisplayPort can carry a crap-load of channels.

Currently just 8 uncompressed. There's potential for more if they're compressed of course, including I believe, DTS:NeoX (up to 11.1).

Two of my rooms are already set up for this, just awaiting an Onkyo receiver capable of running all 12 channels simultaneously. There's already a Denon that can/will do this.

[Hendrik]

DTS:NeoX is a upconversion algorithm, its not something that actually carrys 12 channels of audio.

There is currently no format defined to transport more then 8 channels over HDMI, neither compressed or uncompressed.

[fitbrit]

DTS:NeoX is a upconversion algorithm, its not something that actually carrys 12 channels of audio.

There is currently no format defined to transport more then 8 channels over HDMI, neither compressed or uncompressed.

I understand that, but there's the potential in the future for software to do the upconversion, encode/compress and send to a receiver to decode. Just like DDLive or DTS -Connect, no?
It's funny... there's another thread on Interac somewhere where I quoted exactly what you did, and someone else was wondering whether MC would ever be capable of sending X.1 channel audio (X>7), compressed, to a receiver for decoding, specifically PLIIz. I kept telling him that that was an upconversion format. However, I believe that potentially one can encode source material with these formats too.

[Hendrik]

I'm not sure what you mean.
HDMI to this day does not support any format with more then 8 discrete audio channels, so you really cannot do (proper) upconversion in the HTPC (at least not beyond 8 channels).

The only potential solution would be to use some sort of matrixed format, that mixes different channels together using a fixed matrix, and using the same matrix again to split it, similar to Dolby Surround / Dolby Pro Logic.
However, because of the drawbacks of matrixing, no-one has invented such a format yet. DTS:NeoX or Dolby ProLogic IIz don't work this way, they just extract data from the audio to fill additional speakers, they are not used to create matrixed channels like the classic ProLogic did.

Of course future HDMI versions might add more channels, either uncompressed or with a new compressed format (or an extension to the existing ones), but that also means new hardware.

[shAf]

Shaf, do this:

Make sure regular Audio is working properly.  When you play music, your Yamaha should show PCM input.
Change Options -> Video -> General Video Settings -> Bitstreaming to HDMI
...

Thanx Glynor ... yu da man!!