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Author Topic: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17  (Read 5629 times)

supercaptain

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Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« on: January 30, 2012, 03:52:25 pm »

I have been using Media Center since MC10 and before the days of MC, Jukebox 8. I've never posted a question before because I've always been able to find answers through this exceptional forum. I've been using Direct X Host so I can run BBE Sonic Maximizer software which I've used since MC11 without any issues. The skipping or hiccup problem doesn't seem to be a function of BBE but rather with the Direct X plug-in itself. I've confirmed this problem on my system as well as my brother's PC (running MC16 and also a BBE fan.) In Playback Options/Output Mode settings/Hardware Buffer Size, the only setting which does not hiccup horribly is Minimum Hardware Size (which seems completely counter-intuitive). However, if any attempt is made at multitasking, the playback begins to fall apart. This problem should be easy to reproduce, as BBE isn't necessary to test for the issue. Simply add DX Host as a plug-in, select it, and see if it skips for you (Matt, Jim, or any other kind music lover willing to help :)) Since DX Host worked perfectly under MC15, I'm sure this is some sort of compatibility issue with MC16 and MC17. Thanks in advance for your help!
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Matt

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Re: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 04:00:46 pm »

DX Host should not be used.

Instead, add the DX plug-in directly using DSP Studio > Manage Plug-ins... > Add DirectShow DSP Filter.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

supercaptain

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Re: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 04:50:34 pm »

Matt, Thanks for the quick response! I did as you said, but now I get a message on the BBE display stating "format not supported." I've been using Wasapi-Event Style, so I tried the other output formats. ASIO doesn't list my Musical Fidelity V-Link as an output option, Direct Sound and Wave-out also states on the BBE that the format isn't supported, so It may be time to upgrade my BBE software.(?) In any event, I'll be doing further research. In the mean time, if you (or anyone else!) knows how to configure BBE to work with MC17, please let me know. Thanks again!
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Matt

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Re: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 04:53:09 pm »

I'm not familiar with BBE.  What is it trying to do?  Do they offer a VST version of the plugin?

Is there a way we could test the DirectShow version here?

Thanks.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

supercaptain

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Re: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2012, 05:42:15 pm »

Matt, BBE is an enhancement technique used to correct time and phase distortion inherent in loudspeakers. The company previously only made hardware for use with home audio systems and pro sound, but now also makes software. When I upgraded to a Lexicon MC-1 for my front-end, I was unable to use outboard processors (like the BBE 1002 and dbx 3bx DS.) I was thrilled when I learned that BBE made software that was compatible with DX AND  VST, therefore making it compatible with MC. Most people are very skeptical that such a processor can really improve the sound quality of a recording. However, I have never met anyone who hasn't noticed a real improvement to the sound when they hear BBE for themselves. Rather than get into all the specifics, I've copied a link to the software that I'm using, the "D82". I've also copied a link to the manual for the "old school" model 1002, a "black box" outboard processor popular in the 80's and 90's.

http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/d82.aspx?s1

http://www.bbesound.com/products/manuals/1002_manual.pdf

I've always implemented my BBE via DX, simply because it's the only plug-in that I've noticed on the plug-in page of JRiver. My BBE software comes in two versions- 1 for DX and 1 for VST which I have never used. If you're telling me that it's possible to use this software via VST for MC, I'm all ears!
BTW Matt, if you strive for the best playback sound possible, I believe you'll find BBE to be indispensable once you've heard if for yourself. I Thought it was possible to download and sample the product, but after exploring the website, I can only find a link to purchase the software for $129.00. The purchase link below also has a section that briefly explains the BBE process.

http://nomadfactory.com/products/bbe_sonicsweet/d82.html

Thanks again for your help, Matt, and I hope you find this interesting. One of the main reasons that I love MC is its seemingly infinite flexibility.
Cheers!
Paul
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Scolex

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Re: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2012, 06:12:21 pm »

captain,
I am curious what can BBE do that MC's built in DSP can't or do you personally just get better results with it.
With the EQ, Parametric EQ, Room Correction, Convolution, etc there is very little MC can't do on it's own.
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Sean

Matt

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Re: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 06:13:40 pm »

Maybe you could try installing the VST plugin instead of the DirectX version and let us know how you fare.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

supercaptain

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Re: Direct X Host skips in MC16 and MC17
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 07:56:42 pm »

Sorry it's taken so long to reply...
Here's what I've found: first, the version of BBE software that I have is actually simply called "Sonic Maximizer" (circa 2002!), not the D82. As reported, the DX version behaves badly even when using Direct Show DSP Filter. To my amazement, the VST version works perfectly with MC 17 (so I would imagine the newer software would work fine also) I must say, after searching for a downloadable trial version of the software, I was terribly disappointed. It can be found from third party sites, but it is not the current version (2.4) and the  downloads are infested with adware! BBE is pushing a new bundle of 3 products including the Sonic Maximizer called System Sweet. It can be had from Amazon and some Musician sites for $99. I can find no reliable source for a downloadable trial version. This seems like a huge mistake to me. What better way to convince someone that your product works than to let them experience it for themselves. To make matters worse, BBE now only seems interested in marketing to pro sound and production folks, while the original Sonic Maximizer hardware was clearly marketed to owners of home high fidelity systems. I've been listening to music via BBE processing simply because it enables me to feel closer to the music. Again, how it works and what it does is best explained by the manufacturer. But I'll try to answer Scolex's question this way: The tools included in MC's DSP processing allow adjustment in various parameters of sound reproduction such as EQ, Image enhancement, Room correction, etc. BBE doesn't adjust these parameters. BBE identified a weakness in the reproduction chain and engineered a solution for it. The BBE process makes playback through loudspeakers sound more realistic by applying a set amount of time delay at specific crossover points that are not user adjustable. They claim much research led them to choose the amount of delay at certain frequencies with the goal of correcting an inherent flaw in loudspeaker reproduction. It may take a leap of faith to believe such a weakness exists in loudspeaker playback, but I have tried many times to prove that the BBE process doesn't work by making A/B comparisons. People will claim that the unit merely boosts the gain or alters the frequency response. I can honestly say that I prefer the sound processed through the BBE even at a lower volume than the unprocessed sound. This test can be easily accomplished by switching the unit in or out of the signal chain and using its output level control to match the output (or lower it) compared to the unprocessed signal. In my opinion, BBE confuses the real benefit of its technology by including tone controls on the unit and labeling them as "Lo Contour" and "Process". These controls may prove useful, as the Lo Contour control only affects Bass response below 125 Hz or so and the Process control affects only the highest frequencies. But I still think they're mislabeled. The true magic of the BBE process happens when the Process button is engaged. The Lo contour and Process controls must be set to 5 (12 o'clock position) to make them flat. On the old hardware version at least these controls were flat when set to the 12 o'clock position and simply labeled decrease or increase when deviated from this position. The software now comes with gimmicky presets that simply move the tone controls to predetermined positions. Again, I believe the Process BUTTON is where the real benefit of this strange signal processing lies. If I didn't hear it for myself, I wouldn't believe it. Another strange twist to all of this is that "BBE" can be found on home and auto electronics, much the same way as "SRS" is widely found nowadays on televisions for image enhancement. Hope this helps.
Cheers!
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