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Author Topic: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones  (Read 3283 times)

glynor

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The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« on: February 23, 2012, 10:23:15 pm »

If you haven't seen this, go to The Oatmeal seriously right now and read this comic.

Absolutely, completely, right-on.

It makes me crazy.  The worst part is that the media companies are sooooooooooooo dumb.  Most people want to be honest.  I want to pay a fair price for my video content.  But we want to get the stuff how we want to get the stuff, and we want to use the players we want to use, and we don't want to pay for your stupid bundling and wait for your dumb release cycles and deal with your worldwide release dates varying and all of this crap.  I pay for cable, and run a complicated DVR, but I don't want to, and it makes me mad, and it makes me consume less content (and probably pay more for it but to the wrong people).  Even if we were willing to deal with your crap before, Napster and iTunes taught us we don't have to, and now the genie is out of the bottle.  You can kick and scream and pee your pants if you want (and have been), but it isn't going to change human nature.

We are your customer.
We will buy your crap if you sell it to us at a fair price.

And you know what?  The cream will also rise to the top.  Entertainment as a whole would improve, and the entertainers would make even more money than they do now, because the market for their products would be free flowing and pain-free for the consumer, and not leeched away by middle-men.  The "content creators" wouldn't be driven to use product placement and other crap in their products, because we would be paying for it directly, and higher-quality content would get more downloads and more coin in the bank.  It would give you way better analytics on your audience than flawed Nielsen ratings.  Existing networks can sell their wares directly to a worldwide audience, and compete on a level playing field for talent.  Independent content creators can come in and innovate.  Quality and appeal would be the determining factor of success.  If Firefly or Futurama is selling, and has an audience, you won't cancel it only to realize that "oh, people do like this and our analytics are bad".

I really hope Apple or Amazon manages to fix this.  But they'll both do it with lock-in of their own care of DRM.  Sigh.

And the current Media Conglomerates don't want this because this would absolutely, in the long term, destroy the middle-men.  The packagers.  The labels.  If Radiohead, Louie CK, and the band down the road all sell their wares directly on the internet, then why can JJ Abrams get funding and do it?  Then the "studios" are just middlemen with money (with all sorts of strings attached).  They're PR firms and a bank, and there's lots of those.
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Matt

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 10:37:25 pm »

I'd like to see more of this:
https://buy.louisck.net/news

I'd also like a way to rent a high-quality digital movie.  A Blu-ray is often 40/Mbit.  Maybe streaming will work for this someday, but the quality offered by Netflix and Amazon isn't even close right now.
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glynor

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 10:46:31 pm »

I agree completely.

I bought that from Louie the second I heard about it.  And he did amazingly well with that project!  That shows you right there.

If JJ Abrams, or Stephen Spielberg, or someone of that caliber were to do that with their next big TV series, it would be amazing.  Release it online.  Sell it directly, without DRM and crapware and bundling.  It'd be a huge, massive success.  And then you take that success and you go to the networks and you say, you can run this, but who's giving me the best deal.  And they will.  Release to Internet first, just once.  Even simultaneous release would help, but I think it would actually give a successful product a better negotiating position to already have a hit on their hands.  You think Louie CK can't get a meeting with HBO to syndicate his special?  Really?  Put the traditional cable networks in the place they really already are... Supporting an antiquated system for backwards compatibility (old people like Jim).

Put the pants on the people who actually make the stuff we love in the conversation.

And then we might get better stuff.
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glynor

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 10:55:13 pm »

I should also add.

This is almost certainly what Apple is going to do with some of that $100B war chest.  They're going to fund an iTunes exclusive, big budget, serialized TV Show.  They're going to get their own The Sopranos or Mad Men.  In truth, that war chest is so big that they could out-fund the crap out of all of Hollywood combined.

I'm convinced that we are going to see something like this soon.  Within the next year or two.  And I think Netflix is going to try to do the same thing, and Amazon won't be far behind if it works.

But I think Apple will go first.  They're going to build some kind of new TV platform (maybe an integrated set in addition to a new AppleTV).  But it will be to the existing cable delivery system what the iPhone is to voicemail.  Not a DVR, but an integrated On-Demand system, operated through iTunes and somehow with the existing cable system.  It doesn't connect to your cable box, or record from the cable box, or use CableCard.  It IS the cable box, with Time Warner and Comcast playing the part of AT&T.  Then after it is too late, they're going to fund iTunes exclusive content, and out "ease of purchasing, ease of delivery, ease of use" their own cable network partners.

They've shown how much they care about protecting the data pipes' business models in the long term.  Look at iMessage.  SMS is a cash-cow for the cell phone providers in the US.  But who wears the pants now in those negotiations?
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InflatableMouse

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 01:28:46 am »

We will buy your crap if you sell it to us at a fair price.

...

I really hope Apple or Amazon manages to fix this.  But they'll both do it with lock-in of their own care of DRM.  Sigh.

Not too old to dig up this thread :P

What is a fair price and does Apple deliver?

I'll answer my own question; no they don't.

As long as I can run to a store and buy a CD in a physical case with a booklet to sniff on and texture to feel, for cheaper than Apple is offering virtually online, no I don't think it's a fair price.

I realize digital distribution costs money too, datacenters are expensive and so is storage, backup, data recovery etc etc .. I actually work in a datacenter with all that crap and I know what we charge our customers  :-X I know a thing or two about it.

I also don't mind companies making money. it's fine, they work for it and if they deliver quality , i'll happily hand them my money for their services but only at a fair price.

So what is a fair price? Do we (customers) want to pay per item, per album, fair use policy, flat fee? Streaming, download & free use? Do we know what we want?

You say media companies are so stupid but seeing the success of Apple's iTunes store, customers are just as stupid if you ask me.
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MrHaugen

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 04:54:35 am »

I completely agree with Glynor. If the media businesses don't realize that we want things simultaneously in different regions, cheaper than retail and at the right quality without DRM, then they will only continue to work against what people want. They alienate 80% of the consumers, instead of earing money the way they should have started with 10 years ago.

I have nothing against paying for what I use, but the availability is sometimes horrible. Especially for video outside the US. Since the first day I got a job and started to earn a decent amount each month, I've spend a lot of money on applications, and I'm paying for streaming services for music. Video is still a no go in Europe though. We have Voddler, but their selection is limited to old stuff, and some of the movies are imo a bit over priced. You have some free stuff there though.

Last summer I bought my self a Wii console, a TV and 4-5 DVD disks. I staying at a small airport used for Sky diving, and it's good to have something to do when it's raining. The day with rain came, and I was lloking forward to watching the new movies. I hooked up the Wii to the TV, put the DVD in and tried to play. Nothing worked. I googled it, and despite Wii having a DVD drive, it was not possible to watch movies. Strike one. Then I had to use my laptop. I inserted the disk and started watching the DVD. First there was lots of warning that I would get life time in prison if I stole movies, and that it was exactly the same as stealing a purse or a car (right...). Then I had to watch a lot of trailers for other movies, and at last it made me watch several commercials. After about 10 minutes I could finally start watching the actual movie.

The laptop got some problems, and the movie crashed 2 times during this session (was using VLC player for some unknown reason). All of the times I had to start over and watch this nice trailers, commercials and warnings. About 30 minutes I used on this crap for one movie. After this I made a promise to my self that I would never ever again purchase one pysical disk from a retailer. NEVER. There is just NO way I'm going through that painful experience again. Except for console games that is. Don't have much choice there yet if there are titles you want to play..


So, because of this two things I had to become a criminal. There is just not any advantages of doing it the "correct" way. I have the money, and I'm willing. But I'm still forced to be a criminal.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 07:48:49 am »

Yeh I didn't mean to imply with my message that I disagreed with anything he said, because I do agree. I just wanted to chime on the price because for me that is a hot issue.

To give you an example, on top of our regular TV subscription (basic, 17,20 euro p/m) I can get 'plus' and 'extra' variants, going up to a whopping 30 euros p/m.

So if that isn't enough they are now offering 3 HBO channels for another 15 euros ... and what do I get? Game of Thrones once a week for 15 weeks total? Treme, Boardwalk, a couple of relatively new movies and streaming access on my iPad (which I don't have and don't want).

Great. And did I mention it's all in this new audio format called stereo .. yeh who needs surround anyways. [/endsarcasm]

To me that is a complete ripoff. I can and want to pay 15 euros extra on a subscription basis, but they need to give me more than that. Obviously I didn't get that subscription and I'll wait for something better to come along. In the mean time, I'll watch my series the way I always do :).

So that's why I asked, what do people feel is a fair price and what would you expect for it?
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MrHaugen

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 09:05:52 am »

I did not disagree with you. I just have to little experience with cost of these things to respond to your post ;)
It's about 6 years since I've payed for any tv subscription.
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glynor

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 10:20:21 pm »

So that's why I asked, what do people feel is a fair price and what would you expect for it?

I totally agree.  The current price-points on the iTunes store for video content is way out of whack with reality.  That was part of my point.

I'm not sure I'm reading your tone right, but I do think maybe you're blaming the wrong parties a bit there.  The price points, and the availability shell game they're playing (on both iTunes and on online streaming services), are being meticulously chosen to protect the existing "legacy" business model.  They're protecting the middle-men.  The price point on iTunes is just low enough for the person who missed one episode of Fringe (probably because their crappy cable company provided DVR screwed up) and has little other choice to grimace and swallow it.  But they're set too high to let you just drop cable altogether and buy all of your content that way.  Availability is structured so that Netflix and Hulu are good as an add-on service that increases revenue on the margins, but not so that people can abandon Comcast or an occasional trip to Walmart.

But that's not Apple, or Amazon, or Netflix making that calculation.  Those prices are set by negotiations with the content providers.  It is Time Warner (HBO, Warner Bros Studios, TBS, etc), and Comcast (NBC, SyFy, Bravo), News Corp (Fox, STARs), Cablevision (AMC, IFC, Sundance, Rainbow Media), Disney (ABC, ESPN, and, well, Disney), and so on and so forth that are demanding those prices.  And what do they all have in common?  They are all either cable companies themselves, or they own significant stakes in "delivery" companies (like SKYNet for News Corp).  In fact, the only real exception in that list is Disney, and surprise, surprise, they've typically been among the more "willing" of the content providers to dip their toes in the waters (and are, of course, friendly with Apple because of Pixar).

If Apple could sell those episodes for $0.99 cents, they would.  They've even tried with the rental thing, but Comcast and Time Warner and the rest (of course) refuse to play ball.  Heck, if they could sell them even cheaper (or free) they would.  They aren't in it for the piddly 30% cut they get from the iTunes store (which is a nice business but a drop in the bucket compared to their other revenue sources, and probably relatively low margin compared to what they're used to for a "real" business).  They want to use it to own the ecosystem and use it to sell us iPads at $500 a pop.  The 30% cut (which isn't what they get on music and video, by the way, that's not something any of them talk about openly) is a long-term play for 15 years down the line after they've already dominated the space.

But the content providers set the price, and they control the release timings and availability windows.  Apple and Netflix and Google complain, and cajole, and suggest, but they're talking to the very people who own those pipes we're trying to make dumb.

The only way around them is to pull it out from under them.  Just end-run the whole stupid, insular, wink-and-a-nod colluding bunch.

And, I'm not saying that I necessarily think it will be a good thing... Certainly not my preferred solution in my dream scenario.  (Or even that it will necessarily work out the way they plan.)

But I do think that Apple is really the only one in a position to do something about it.  Precisely because they don't care about their piddly cable-company distribution dumb-pipe business.  "Hollywood's" whole business (TV, Cable, Satellite, whatever) isn't nothing to them, but it isn't real money.  They're willing to commoditize their complements, and I'm sure their motto with everything in the iTunes Store is "low-price, high-volume, is better".

That's why they are in a unique position to come in.  They're willing to burn the existing business model to the ground.   They can come in and offer the people who make the content a better deal and more control, and then give the customers a better experience and better prices (and beautiful lock-in).  Exactly, play-by-play, what they did to "cell phone software" with the App Store:

1. Get Time Warner, Verizon, and Comcast and whomever to offer your special "Apple TV Box/Set Thingy-ma-gig" with the carrot that they can sell it as a value-add subscription package on your existing cable bill (people pay $4 a month for the crappy DVR they shove down our throats, they'll pay $9.99/month instead to have Apple's).  A few of the providers will hold out, but the customers will quickly pressure them to cave if it proves popular where it is offered, see also Verizon, Sprint, et all.

2. Sell a bazillion of them (at high profit margins, while cutting the cable companies out of the hardware-rental revenue and device lock-in if possible).

3. Launch big-name, exclusive, iTunes content and undercut the crap out of the "competition" from the traditional media companies on price.

4. Open the iTunes Video Store to registered "content providers" (who can be anyone with a camera, a vision, and a NLE) with the same terms as you offered Developers access to the App Store (keeping 70% of gross revenue is a hell of a lot better of a deal than the show runners are getting from NBC, you can bet that).

5. People start cancelling their cable service for real (not the current set of nerds-only cable cutters we have now, but like landlines to cell phones).  A few at first, but then... Watch the content providers flock in (small and indie at first, but it only takes one Angry Birds and the rest will come).  This will put pressure on the traditional networks, drive prices down, and put the pants on Apple in those negotiations.  They just say "30%, take it or leave it", just like they did to the print publishers.

6. ??

7. PROFIT!  (But for real this time.)
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InflatableMouse

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Re: The Oatmeal - I Tried To Watch Game of Thrones
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 06:46:34 am »

Quote from: glynor
I'm not sure I'm reading your tone right

Sorry it's probably my frustration you're reading, nothing towards you though. I didn't mean to blame any one side in particular but I strongly agree with you that the problem largely lies with the content providers. Honestly I don't understand why they are so desperately hanging on to something that has proven not to work. Why are they so unwilling to change and fill the demand? On the other hand I'm not so sure Apple is doing everything they could do, I think they are pretty content with how things are going. People are buying so why should they?

I'm not so sure on your "6 steps to profit" though, it may work for Apple but it doesn't look like something I'd be willing to participate in as a consumer because it sounds closed and proprietary. Whether it is Apple or someone else. I don't want their settopbox, I have one. I don't want to use their shop software, I have a web browser so provide a webshop. Provide us with an API so we can make plugins for our popular HTPC software. I'm not saying they should NOT provide their own software and settop box, I'm saying give us a choice.

If one thing is bad for us, its vendor lock in and proprietary software. I never understood why Apple doesn't provide a webshop for their mp3's. DRM is already gone so why not allow me to browse a web shop and download what I purchase? I don't see the problem. Why not provide an API so somoeone can make a plugin for our popular music players to provide the one-click purchases like its done in iTunes?

I'm afraid that there are not enough people who think like you or me to shape the demand into something more open, more consumer friendly. Right now there is an increasing demand for online video content and what I see happening is that the majority is accepting the offered services with all the lock downs and restrictions, overpriced as they are. When enough 'sheep' follow, why should we see anything offered differently than what has proven to work (iTunes music store)?

I think cable providers have an incredible opportunity here. They need to start moving from time based channels to on demand content based channels. I'll subscribe to channels of my interest, and I'll pay per subscription. Premium subscriptions are free of advertisements. I'll watch what I want, when I want and how I want it.
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