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[dwvaughn]

First post here.  I recently got MC 17 trying to create a multi-zone system for my house.  I purchased 2 Rosewill RC-702 Soundcards from NewEgg in hopes to be able to create 6+ zones and be able to output different music to all of them or to link them.  Unfortunately I can't get the sound card to output to the specific channels?  Instead it outputs to all channels.  I am currently using DirectSound and setting the channels in the dialog.  I have tried changing the settings in the soundcard program but it continues to output to all channels.  Any thoughts?

[Matt]

Welcome.

It's a bit of a grab bag if a sound card will expose its outputs as multiple stereo pairs.  Some do, and many don't.

The same thing with using the DirectSound option you're trying.  It's up to the driver if this will work.

If the Rosewill has an ASIO driver, you can likely target discrete output lines that way, but then most ASIO drivers aren't happy when two concurrent connections are made (Media Center works around the inherent limitation in ASIO for this, but it still requires a driver to support it).

I wish we had a list of the cards that work well for this type of setup.  It might be a good thing for our wiki if we can collect some user suggestions.

If anyone has a card that can output multiple stereo streams at the same time nicely, please speak up.

[dwvaughn]

So it would appear that i'm not going to be able to make this work using the $14 sound cards I bought :-( Bummer.  Can anyone let me know if they've gotten a Creative sound card or the like working or do I need to spring for the M-Delta 1010?  Thanks.

[Bill Kearney]

I've had decent luck using a couple of individual USB audio devices.  One for each zone.  Works decently enough.  Fidelity really isn't much of an issue when you're playing back MP3 tracks for whole house ambient music.  Were I pairing this up to a high fidelity listening room with lossless tracks, maybe I'd go with a "better" audio card.  But, honestly, simple and cheap works pretty well. 

Just try to have the devices directly connected to the PC's own USB ports and not hanging off a hub.  Not that there's a throughput problem, USB2 should handle them fine.  Although maybe not with other high data-rate devices on there too (like a hard drive).  The point of direct connecting them is to avoid any device renumbering should you be connecting other devices later.  MC is a little finicky about how to decides to "number" the zones behind the scenes.  Leaving the USB audio widgets connected to the same ports can help avoid zone numbering nonsense.  Note, I wrote "can help" not "eliminate".  But then this would be true to multiple internal cards too.

[dwvaughn]

Thanks Bill.  So do you think I could get away with 2 USB 7.1 Channel devices to pull out 6 Stereo zones (maybe 8 )?

[Bill Kearney]

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment, I get one stereo output out of each device.  This is simple and works reliably.  These are $12 items from Microcenter.  Nothing special about them.  They show up automatically in windows and require no special drivers.  By trying to oversimplify with one device you overcomplicate the driver requirements.  That and you're potentially pushing a lot of data through just one device, instead of several.  Clever arranging of USB devices per port can get around any likely limits, but it's not like audio bitrates are all that demanding.

For what reason do you think a multi-port device will be of better use?

[dwvaughn]

Bill,

I was thinking multiport to cut down on clutter.  No reason I couldn't get a few USB devices assuming I have enough USB ports in the back of the comp I'm setting up.

[Alex B]

The same thing with using the DirectSound option you're trying.  It's up to the driver if this will work.

Hmm... Isn't Direct Sound supposed to just work assuming 5.1 or 7.1 works in general and all zones are set to same sample rate & bit depth, and 2 ch stereo playback mode. The device driver and MC's playback are isolated by the Windows audio engine. As far as I understand, the device driver has no way "to know" where MC gets the input signal for each channel from. The device just receives the channel specific audio streams in the same way it would do during multichannel playback.

dwvaughn,

Have you verified that the sound cards work correctly in the 7.1. mode by playing multi-channel audio or the control panel test signals?
You should have the Direct Sound channel pairs available in "Playback Options > Audio Output > Output mode settings":



Each zone should be able to store and use its individual settings.

[dwvaughn]

Alex,

I have tried the control panel signal test and each channel works however when I run MC the music comes out of all the channels.  Then they overlay when I try playing 2 zones simultaneously.

[Alex B]

Windows Vista and 7 have a feature that may be enabled by default:
From: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Get-high-definition-sound-and-music-from-your-computer#section_2

Virtual Surround. This effect simulates surround sound. This effect is ideal for using a computer with a 2-channel stereo sound card and a receiver that supports surround sound.

I don't know if it can cause the problem, but you could check if it is enabled. You can disable all "Enhancements".

However, as Matt said, it is possible that some audio devices simply don't work with this feature. I just tested three multichannel devices and only two of the devices worked correctly. A recent 7.1 onboard device and a 5.1 Terratec PCI sound card had no problems, but an old Realtek 5.1 onboard device didn't work as expected or reliably. I was able to make the real channels play in a separate zone, but sometimes they were silent after switching back and forth between settings. Its Center/LFE jack didn't seem to work at all with this feature.

[Bill Kearney]

I'll trade a working setup over clutter any day.  Seriously.  Do not underestimate the hassles of keeping drivers up to date, or the time you'll waste trying to figure them out.  Yes, it would be nice to have things simplified.  But, as Einstein once said, "Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler."  

The complex part of zones is the software, so keep that simple by using one-device, one-driver.  Going with a multifunction device requires the driver, the operating system, and the software to all "do the right thing".  I've learned not to trust all that.  

[Bill Kearney]

There's another angle to consider and that's zone synchronizing.  It's an adventure getting multiple digital devices closely synchronized.   I'll defer to others here if they have suggestions about what multi-output devices might be the best choices here.

I've gone the route of using external multi-zone amplifiers (a Russound CAV66 and a CAM6).  That way if I want to hear the same source in more than one location I don't have to depend upon MC or the audio devices to get in sync.  The amps do it for me by distributing the analog audio themselves.  It's much simpler and much less hassle.  Here I've had to trade my time for the price of the amps... it's been well worth it.

[dwvaughn]

Bill,

I actually got it working last night.  I was able to find a Sound Blaster Live 5.1 card that I had laying around and I found the kX project driver and installed that.  Works great.  I am able to get individual zones using each of the channels on the card and actually the card allows me to use Center and Subwoofer as an out so with a 5.1 card I am able to get 6 Channels.  Next step is to try either adding a second SoundBlaster card or a couple of the USB cards that you suggested.

[Bill Kearney]

Ok, but don't say you weren't warned...  I too have dealt with multiple outputs as zones, on Sound Blaster external USB devices, and stopped trying to waste my time on them.  Now I just use several of them, each as one zone on the stereo outputs. 

[glynor]

Ok, but don't say you weren't warned...  I too have dealt with multiple outputs as zones, on Sound Blaster external USB devices, and stopped trying to waste my time on them.  Now I just use several of them, each as one zone on the stereo outputs. 

I know that Mastiff has a setup where he uses multiple 5.1 or 7.1 channel sound cards to create a TON of zones in his house, and has done it for a long time.

He pops in here from time to time (though it has been a while since I've seen him around).  Perhaps you'll get lucky and he'll pop in and comment on what he uses.

[gworrel]

I use an M-audio Delta 410 which has 4 pairs of RCA outputs as well as an spdif output.  I have no trouble running multiple independent zones out of it.  Out of the same computer I also run an HDMI output for my main audio and video output. 

I have found zones to be a bit impractical in some ways due to the lack of adequate syncing of the output. If I want to play the same output in adjoining rooms, the out of sync playback is too annoying.  I know it is adjustable but it is hard to get right and it is too time consuming.  It is great if I want to play a zone out in the backyard and another one in the house.  I am planning to route several pairs of speakers through a switchbox inside the house for whole house audio. That way I will get perfect sync.

[glynor]

I use an M-audio Delta 410 which has 4 pairs of RCA outputs as well as an spdif output. 

I do too, but I think he was looking to use cheap, consumer 5.1 cards.