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[Ton]

Doing a search here, I saw that similar questions have been asked, but I couldn't find a (for me at least) clear answer. But maybe I didn't search enough.
I already read that for DTS-MA you need to have TMT 5 installed (which I do) and that you have to copy the dtsdecoderdll.dll to sys32, sysWOW64 and/or the LAV folder in appdata>....>Media Center17>Plugins (which I did as well).
But how can I be sure and how can I check that I do get the lossless track ? I noticed that when I remove the dtsdecoderdll.dll from the aforementioned folders I still can choose the DTS-MA track in a Blu-Ray and still get sound.
Btw, I don't have bitstreaming checked in the options, so that my AVR is playing PCM.

[elsid]

You could be just getting the DTS core so don't let the fact you have sound trick you.

I could be wrong but if you check the DSP studio, or the audio path you should see 24bit 192khz audio signal if it's DTS MA.  If it is getting down sampled you'll see something like 16 bit 48khz output.

While a movie is playing, come out of full screen and to the right of the title bar you'll see 3 symbols. The third will display the audio path. Also you can right click the movie (while watching, not the file name) and pick audio path. A third option is to open the dsp studio and it'll show the info at the bottom.

Hope I got this right and it helps

[Ton]

Thanks elsid for your reply.
Then I think there is something wrong. When I play a Blu-Ray with the DTS-MA track, I  don't see any difference in the audio path whether the dtsdecoderdll.dll is copied to the required folders or not.
In both cases (also when dtsdecoderdll.dll is ONLY in the Arcsoft Codec folder)  Input is 48kHz 24bit 6ch and Output 48kHz 24bit 6ch using WASAPI (direct connection).

[Trumpetguy]

I could be wrong but if you check the DSP studio, or the audio path you should see 24bit 192khz audio signal if it's DTS MA.  If it is getting down sampled you'll see something like 16 bit 48khz output.

Are you positive about that? When I extract DTS MA tracks using eac3to for rip to .mkv, it always reports the same bit depth (usually 24bit) and sample rate (always 48kHz). The big difference between DTS core and the full DTS MA is the bit rate, i.e. the compression (lossy vs lossless is my understanding). I have to date never seen a track with other sample rates than that for movie audio. Multichannel music may be another story, have no experience there.

My point is that I do not believe 24/48 audio is any proof you are playing the DTS core track and not the full DTS MA.

[elsid]

Trumpet - as I said originally, I'm not sure. I hope I didn't steer the OP wrong.  I can't do any proper research on my phone, but I'll look around later. Most likely Ton and I will both learn something today.

I usually refrain from posting if I'm not sure - I hate misinformation.  I felt like I could get close on this one though.

[audioriver]

A bitrate check while playing, should be enough to verify if DTS-HD MA is enabled. 1509.75 kbit/s is the limit for DTS core.

[Ton]

A bitrate check while playing...

But how do I do that ?

[Trumpetguy]

A bitrate check while playing, should be enough to verify if DTS-HD MA is enabled. 1509.75 kbit/s is the limit for DTS core.

I think MC reports 1510kbps even if you decode and play the DTSMA correctly. I do not know why. There ws a thread somewhere (maybe MC16?) that discussed this, maybe there are some answers to be found searching the forum.

[elsid]

Are you positive about that? When I extract DTS MA tracks using eac3to for rip to .mkv, it always reports the same bit depth (usually 24bit) and sample rate (always 48kHz). The big difference between DTS core and the full DTS MA is the bit rate, i.e. the compression (lossy vs lossless is my understanding). I have to date never seen a track with other sample rates than that for movie audio. Multichannel music may be another story, have no experience there.

My point is that I do not believe 24/48 audio is any proof you are playing the DTS core track and not the full DTS MA.

Yep, looks like I was getting a bit ahead of myself there. Everything I can find says movies are (currently) 24/48. I guess I was confusing "maximums" with reality Thanks for straightening me out.

I did find these interesting:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338

Fitbrit offers an explination of the bitrate display here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70539.0

since dts-ma is a variable bitrate, MC only displays the bitrate of the core.

[Ton]

Thanks again for the replies. I am still confused however.
After having read Fitbrit's explanation, I tried a Blu-Ray with DTS-MA and 7.1 channels (The Adventures Of TinTin, and although I have only a 5.1 system). At first I noticed that when I right-click, while playing, and select Stream Selection, I don't see the 7.1 DTS-MA stream, only a 5.1 DTS-MA stream. When I play the same BD in TMT 5, I DO see the 7.1 stream and can select it.
While playing in MC, in Audio Path I see as Output 48kHz 24bit 6 ch and in Changes: Convert from 8 channels to 6 channels. So that would mean that I have the lossless stream ?
BUT, when I delete the dtsdecoderdll.dll from the LAV, sys32 and sysWOW64 folders and have it only in the Arcsoft codec folder, there is no change at all. The readings in Audio Path are exactly the same. This is what I don't understand. From what I understand until now, without the dtsdecoderdll.dll the DTS-MA stream cannot be decoded. Why don't I see a difference then between using this dll and not using it ?
Anyway I still wonder how I can check if I am getting the DTS-MA or only the DTS core.

[fitbrit]

A couple of things.
Firstly, I may be wrong, but if TMT is installed, then the dll file is installed as part of your system. You probably don't need it added extraneously like you do - that was a trick for those who didn't want to purchase/install the full TMT application, but wanted merely to pillage the decoder. My guess is that you'd see a difference if you uninstalled TMT as well as the added dll in other locations.

Secondly, it seems like you've specified in your MC settings that you have a 5.1 system, so the sound is being downmixed from 7.1 to 5.1 on the fly. You may see some different info, if you press the up or down arrow keys while playing the 7.1 file; that activates the OSD and it would be interesting to see whether MC recognises the unadulterated 7.1 input on the OSD (before it's downmixed to a 5.1 output). Yes, you are still getting lossless sound, but it's altered to mix in the surround back channels into the surround ones. This is often done by AV Receivers anyway if you're running a 5.1 system - in this case MC is doing it before sending to the AVR/amps. The result should be quite similar, although many people prefer the JRSS sound.

[Ton]

A couple of things.
Firstly, I may be wrong, but if TMT is installed, then the dll file is installed as part of your system. You probably don't need it added extraneously like you do - that was a trick for those who didn't want to purchase/install the full TMT application, but wanted merely to pillage the decoder. My guess is that you'd see a difference if you uninstalled TMT as well as the added dll in other locations.

Secondly, it seems like you've specified in your MC settings that you have a 5.1 system, so the sound is being downmixed from 7.1 to 5.1 on the fly. You may see some different info, if you press the up or down arrow keys while playing the 7.1 file; that activates the OSD and it would be interesting to see whether MC recognises the unadulterated 7.1 input on the OSD (before it's downmixed to a 5.1 output). Yes, you are still getting lossless sound, but it's altered to mix in the surround back channels into the surround ones. This is often done by AV Receivers anyway if you're running a 5.1 system - in this case MC is doing it before sending to the AVR/amps. The result should be quite similar, although many people prefer the JRSS sound.

With regards to the 1st part of your reply: I didn't realize that, but probably that is indeed the reason for seeing no difference.
And the 2nd part: Didn't know about the OSD showing with the arrow keys. Thanks for the tip.
When I press the arrow keys I see as Audio Stream DTS-HD MA 48000Hz 5.1. When in DSP Studio I specify that I have a 7.1 system, there is no difference in the OSD, still 5.1. However at the top of the Output Format window in DSP I then see "Enabled and processing 48kHz 64bit 8ch".
So I can be assured then that I DO get the lossless stream ?

[elsid]

With regards to the 1st part of your reply: I didn't realize that, but probably that is indeed the reason for seeing no difference.
And the 2nd part: Didn't know about the OSD showing with the arrow keys. Thanks for the tip.
When I press the arrow keys I see as Audio Stream DTS-HD MA 48000Hz 5.1. When in DSP Studio I specify that I have a 7.1 system, there is no difference in the OSD, still 5.1. However at the top of the Output Format window in DSP I then see "Enabled and processing 48kHz 64bit 8ch".
So I can be assured then that I DO get the lossless stream ?

I'm going to take a stab at this, and hope I don't embarrass myself again. Someone who can confirm, please chime in:

If the OSD is showing you dts-hd ma as your source, then I think you are getting your lossless audio. The DSP Studio is for processing the source ie up/down sampling, eq, room correction, etc before it's output to your DAC. The audio decoder (LAV) is only providing the 5.1 stream, because that's what windows is set for/detects in your control panel. So setting the dsp studio to 7.1 won't change the source (displayed in the OSD).

[audioriver]

But how do I do that ?

You are right, "Bitrate" shows video bitrate in BD playback and I can't find a way to show audio bitrate in the display. You could try selecting a custom video mode (non-Red October), so you'd have access to LAV Filters' properties/playing status. An audio bitrate display entry would help here, just to be sure even in RO mode.

[Ton]

You could try selecting a custom video mode (non-Red October), so you'd have access to LAV Filters' properties/playing status. An audio bitrate display entry would help here, just to be sure even in RO mode.

Somehow I can't get that working. When I choose Custom Video, add LAV as audio decoder and start playback, MC 17 crashes. After returning to Red October (HQ) everything is fine again. What could I be doing wrong there ?

Btw, I assume that the bitrate that is shown on top of the player window, is the total of video AND audio and not only the video ? MediaInfo says that the video bitrate of the mentioned (7.1) Blu-Ray is 27.9 Mbps. While playing, the(total ?) bitrate sometimes goes up to 34Mbps or even higher. So that is proof that I AM having the lossless audio ?

Moreover, I can check the signal info in the menu of my AVR and I see PCM 48kHz 3/4/0.1. So apparently the AVR "sees" 8 channels. (There is also a field "Bitrate" in the AVR menu, but unfortunately that stays empty. Apparently the AVR doesn't read that).

[audioriver]

Somehow I can't get that working. When I choose Custom Video, add LAV as audio decoder and start playback, MC 17 crashes. After returning to Red October (HQ) everything is fine again. What could I be doing wrong there ?

Unfortunately, the Custom/Windows merit modes never worked for me, either.  

Btw, I assume that the bitrate that is shown on top of the player window, is the total of video AND audio and not only the video ? MediaInfo says that the video bitrate of the mentioned (7.1) Blu-Ray is 27.9 Mbps. While playing, the(total ?) bitrate sometimes goes up to 34Mbps or even higher. So that is proof that I AM having the lossless audio ?

It probably is. Hopefully, there's a DTS-core track in the same BD, possibly in another language. If so, select it and check the bitrate.

[Matt]

In a coming build:
NEW: Audio Path reports the source format (especially useful for seeing if DTS-MA, etc. is being decoded fully).

[Ton]

In a coming build:
NEW: Audio Path reports the source format (especially useful for seeing if DTS-MA, etc. is being decoded fully).

Great !
Hoping it comes soon

[maid]

Where how do we check the audio path??

Cheers

[NickF]

Where how do we check the audio path??

Cheers

While the video is playing, use the arrow keys to activate the On Screen Display and scroll through various pieces of information including Audio Path.

Nick.

[maid]

Is that on the remote? What about the keyboard?

[NickF]

Is that on the remote? What about the keyboard?

Either.

Nick.