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Author Topic: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?  (Read 5328 times)

SmoothJimB

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Thanks for the new "Trailer" Media Sub Type in a recent release; so this list of valid choices can grow!

As I am certain it has been pointed out before, many of us would like have simply a "Music" Sub type as well.

My audio collection has many "audiobook" titles, several "Radio" selections, and a whole bunch of "podcasts" and each of these library items are properly tagged as such in the Media Sub Type field.  But the field must remain blank for the majority of my library items since "Music" is not available.

Now I realize and I should point out to the handful of you who know less than me about Media Center, it is possible to build a custom library field of our own and fill it to our hearts content with all the Sub Types we can dream up; and than use this newly created field to further customize our views and theater views.

The official Media Sub Type is already so useful why not just add "Music"?  And if you are in a generous and giving mood how about "comedy"?  Is this too much to ask?  After all you had to say yes to "Test Clip" and "Remix" along the way somewhere.

Seriously, I love the product and have enjoyed seeing it continue to improve.

 



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pcstockton

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 11:57:22 pm »

I was just wishing for that as well.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer"
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2012, 04:29:33 pm »

I saw this post and thought it would fun to experiment some with the new "Trailers" media sub-type. My first stop was to try to download a trailer - but this is harder than it seems!
Is there a reason why movie makers/producers would not want their trailers downloaded? I can't find an easy way to get a trailer. You would think they woul dwant to have the trailers downloaded/shared - it's free advertising.

Also the sites that claim to have trailers and link to downloads "really" link you to other unrelated downloads rather than the trailer (file) you want. It seems to be a game of misdirecting.
I have been to dozens of download sites where it is almost impossible to find the actual button that downloads what you want. Plenty of "registry cleaners" available though. ;D
Enough ranting.
 >:(

So where can I download movie trailers?
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mojave

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CountryBumkin

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2012, 05:05:58 pm »

Nice site. Thanks.
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MrHaugen

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2012, 05:26:57 pm »

Nobody noticing any problems when you set the Media Sub Type to "Trailer" on automatic import? I CAN'T get this to work. I know I have written it correctly (copied from existing tag), and it's set up just like with Movie or TV Show category.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2012, 06:00:01 pm »

I don't have an option (in the built-in choices) to choose "trailer" for the media-sub type when importing from a specific folder. I am currently importing to "Other" then changing the media sub type manually. It would be very helpful when this gets fixed.


PS. Today is my first use of trailers.  so far I just setup a new roller under movies for "trailers". What I would really like to have is the trailer shown on the movie info page so from there I choose "watch movie" or "watch trailer". Meaning I scroll through my movie covers and see something interesting, I then click on the cover and the movie info page opens. From there I select to either watch the movie or the trailer.
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JimH

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2012, 06:19:37 pm »

PS. Today is my first use of trailers.  so far I just setup a new roller under movies for "trailers". What I would really like to have is the trailer shown on the movie info page so from there I choose "watch movie" or "watch trailer". Meaning I scroll through my movie covers and see something interesting, I then click on the cover and the movie info page opens. From there I select to either watch the movie or the trailer.
We'll try to add something like that in the next couple of weeks.
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rick.ca

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2012, 07:16:31 pm »

I hope the solution to this is a generalized one—enabling the use Links in Theatre View. This would allow a number of different approaches to handling trailers: navigating to/from movie/trailer records (and playing from there); playing a trailer file directly from the movie record; or finding and streaming a trailer from the internet. The same solution would have a multitude of different uses—just as Links in Standard View do: linking to any other related record (for viewing) or file (for playing), or viewing additional information on the Web. For any media type. For example, I record 'connections' between songs in my library, like covers by other artists, live versions, etc. It would be nice to include these as links in Theatre View. I could then, for example, follow a link to a cover, add it to PN, and then follow the reverse link back to where I was.
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MrHaugen

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2012, 01:40:15 am »

I'm with Rick here. Playing links would be far more useful than a specific "trailer" function. Perhaps a choice on each link whether to open it in display mode or windowed mode as well. Or something like that. I would be happy either way, if we just were allowed to play links. Both locally and streaming over Internet.
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xplain

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2012, 06:27:20 am »

Quote
PS. Today is my first use of trailers.  so far I just setup a new roller under movies for "trailers". What I would really like to have is the trailer shown on the movie info page so from there I choose "watch movie" or "watch trailer". Meaning I scroll through my movie covers and see something interesting, I then click on the cover and the movie info page opens. From there I select to either watch the movie or the trailer.

We'll try to add something like that in the next couple of weeks.

Yes yes and yes, fantastic idea.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 08:20:00 am »

And if I don't own the movie (yet) I suppose the movie cover art should still show in the Movies section (the movie and trailer art would be the same) - but only the trailer would be availble to view. But I'm not sure if I like this idea - its sort of leads one to think they are going to get to watch a movie only to find out the trailer is the only thing available.

At this stage, I guess the first step is to make the trailers available (have a download link and get the proper cover art) then we can decide what is the best way/place to display the trailer.
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MrHaugen

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 08:30:44 am »

Cover art and meta data is no problem for Trailers today. It retrieves meta data just like a regular movie. Perhaps there should be a few tweaks, but I don't think it's critical.

What would be cool later on was to have a default Trailer view with a Wanted field. So, you can tag Yes or No in theater view after you've watched a trailer, and you can create views with wanted movies. That is also something you can easily add your self. Even today. Normal users might have some problems though.
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pcstockton

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2012, 09:08:27 am »

....aaaaaaaand back to the OP's question...
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rick.ca

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2012, 03:12:57 pm »

Quote
...aaaaaaaand back to the OP's question...

You want to change the topic after we've cleverly hijacked it to discuss something interesting?! ;D

I believe it's already been made clear that if you insist on using [Media Sub Type] for your own purposes (rather than a custom field you would have complete control over), just go ahead and beg for the additional values needed...

Please, please, pretty please, may we have 'Music', 'Recipe' and 'Stamp' values?  :-*

Done.
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pcstockton

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2012, 05:31:31 pm »

Sorry Rick.

90% of my videos fall under the category of Music.  They are either concerts or documentaries etc.

I figured other were in the same boat.

I will bow out.

Derail onward!

Cheers,
Patrick
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MrHaugen

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2012, 05:46:00 pm »

When the Media Sub Type is as locked down as it is, I don't find it strange that people ask for additions of reasonably popular additions. That is the natural fallout from the decision of locking it down.
In this case however, I would think that "Music Video" would be a useful tag that already exist.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2012, 06:35:39 pm »

Cover art and meta data is no problem for Trailers today. It retrieves meta data just like a regular movie. Perhaps there should be a few tweaks, but I don't think it's critical.

I find that Cover Art does not automatically download for "Trailers". Is this working for you? There is no option to find/download Coverart that I can find. If I try to use "Get Movie and TV info" it will not work either (since media sub type is not Movie or Televison). I have to find the coverart on the internet with Explorer (or in my database if I have the Movie/Art) and manually download it.  Maybe this is a feature still to be developed.
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rick.ca

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2012, 07:13:27 pm »

90% of my videos fall under the category of Music.  They are either concerts or documentaries etc.

I hope you're not missing the point of my sarcasm. If you have a need to categorize media beyond [Media Type], there's nothing stopping you from doing so. Why look at a locked-down field used for internal purposes and claim that it stops you from doing the categorization you want to use? If it didn't exist in the first place, there would be no problem.

Granted, using both a stock [Media Sub Type] and a custom [Media Sub Type (custom)] could make many things more complicated. If so, that can be resolved by using and expression field [Media Sub Type.x] to combine [Media Sub Type] and [Media Sub Type (custom)]. The expression can not only add any value you care to use, it can also be used to override a value set by the program to the custom value, or change it based on some other criteria (e.g., if the file is in the Trailer folder, it's a 'Trailer'). If all necessary values can be determined from other criteria, there wouldn't even be a need to set [Media Sub Type (custom)] values manually.

Now, just use [Media Sub Type.x] wherever [Media Sub Type] would otherwise be used. If you need to make any changes to how things are classified, just revise the expression. No need to figure out what Carnac is doing or to mess with Auto-Import rules.

The only problem that can't be resolved this way is where the program uses a value it sets in [Media Sub Type] to determine other program functions (e.g., meta data retrieval, handling series). But even that's only an issue where you don't want it doing what it wants to do. It's more likely you do, and this method provides additional categorization for display purposes (e.g., 'TV Show' split into 'TV Show', 'Documentary' and 'Sports')...

If I try to use "Get Movie and TV info" it will not work either (since media sub type is not Movie or Televison).

Thanks for providing another good example. I'm not sure how [Media Sub Type] is set automatically for trailers, but set it to 'Movie' using an Auto-Import rule if necessary. Also ensure [Name] is cleaned to include only the movie title. Then the meta data import (including covers) should work. Your trailers are likely imported to a common folder, so have your [Media Sub Type.x] expression assign 'Trailer' based on that folder. Then use [Media Sub Type.x]=[Trailer] to determine how they're displayed in views.

Back to Patrick's situation... Meta data for some of your music concerts and documentaries may be in found in 'Movie' sources (if not TMDb, then maybe Wikipedia). So it might be important for you too to leave (or intentionally set) [Media Sub Type] as 'Movie'. Then use [Media Sub Type (custom)] to reclassify them as appropriate. This way, the program will allow a manual lookup for meta data at any time, while your [Media Sub Type.x] will provide the classification you want.
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pcstockton

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2012, 07:54:44 pm »

No i didnt miss your point at all.  I really appreciate the help.  I will give it a shot tonight.

thanks!
Patrick
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MrHaugen

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2012, 04:10:21 am »

I find that Cover Art does not automatically download for "Trailers". Is this working for you? There is no option to find/download Coverart that I can find. If I try to use "Get Movie and TV info" it will not work either (since media sub type is not Movie or Televison). I have to find the coverart on the internet with Explorer (or in my database if I have the Movie/Art) and manually download it.  Maybe this is a feature still to be developed.

I was under the impression that this worked well, yes. BUT, that might be because of my previous problems with the Media Sub Type not automatically setting the Trailer tag. No that is does, it would not surprise me if this have been increasingly more difficult. I have no problem with Cover art however, because the trailer download app adds this if I want to. I'll investigate the meta data issue this weekend.

IF it's as you suspect CountryBumkin, then I would suggest that JRiver adds the Trailer Media Sub Type to the list of Types that can automatically and manually download meta data for the videos.
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MrHaugen

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2012, 10:58:12 am »

You're correct... Anything but the Media Sub Type Movie and TV Show are refused to use the Meta Data Scraper.

As it is now, we have to import the trailers WITHOUT adding the Trailer tag, and then update the Trailers manually. Or we could use another custom Library field like Video Sub Type set to Trailer, and the scraper would then work as expected. It's a shame that we can't use the new Media Sub Type though...

Matt, could you please look into adding Trailer to the scraper system?
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SmoothJimB

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 06:18:57 am »

I'm glad we got some discussion from my Media Sub Type thread.  I welcome any advancement in the trailer media sub type.  

I'm not sure that I got a straight forward answer to my original question: Why can the Media Sub Type have the values it does but not a few that would be popular additions?

Here is what I think got answered:

1) Media Sub Type is Locked Down (except for an occasional new type like Trailer)
2) Those of us to which to have a larger selection of choices should add our own field and customize it and not beg for this locked down field to be changed to popular requests.

OK got it.

So I have:

1) Created my custom field .Media Sub Type
2) I have tagged my existing files in this field as I wish.
3) I have updated my customized views (in standard view) to use my new .Media Sub Type where appropriate.
4) I have updated my customized theater view to use my new .Media Sub Type where appropriate.

No problem so far.

My new question/Problem:

Now that I am no longer using the original Media Sub Type, my new .Media Sub Type will not be updated for media auto imported:

1) MC will not know to tag my recorded or imported TV in my new field
2) The new auto import feature of tagging imported files with Media Sub Type based on import directory will no longer work in my configuration (for my new .Media Sub type field)
3) Podcasts (audio and video) will not tagged in my new field automatically

Is their any (easy) solution to this? Especially #3 podcast?

Is there a way for my new field .Media Sub Type to take the default value of the original field Media Sub Type but still allow it to be change to one of a predetermined list?







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MrHaugen

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 07:00:42 am »

I think you need to use an expressions to mirror the data from the original Media Sub Type field, to your new field. The problem is that this can NOT happen to the media sub types which you are automatically adding during import.

I can not help you with this, but I can illustrate how it might look like with Pseudo code.

expression: [.Media Sub Type] = [Media Sub Type] if not equals "Trailer" or "TV Show"

At least in my head, this would give you the same data in the . field as in the original, but the rule would be skipped if Media Sub Type contains something that you want to overwrite with an tag on import rule. In this example Trailer and TV Show. I have no idea if this is possible in real life, or if it's just in my head. MrC might be able to help you out here. He's a genius when it comes to expressions.
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MrC

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2012, 12:58:10 pm »

MrHaugen is too generous, and so very effective in motivating the troops!

So, for (1), use an auto-import to set a value for [.Media Sub Type].  For (2), you can define your own Auto-Import rules that are based on directory.  You'll have to explain what you want, or as MrHaugen mentions, you can pull the [Media Sub Type] value if it is correct.  For (3), the best you can do now is create an expression and use it to assign [.Media Sub Type] whenever you notice the value is empty.  You can modify a view to help you see this, and handle it periodically.

Podcasts and Scheduled recordings do not use the Auto-Import system, so you can't run auto-import rules on them.  Maybe someday.

btw. Here's a quick way to test two (or more) values such as Trailer or TV Show against a field:

   if(isequal(||Trailer||TV Show||, ||[Media Sub Type]||, 7), YES, NO)

This works by inverting the typical order of (sub-)string comparison - here, we're looking for what's contained inside of [Media Sub Type] and comparing it against a list of possible types.  I've surrounded the values with || so that the strings match fully (e.g. are anchored) and for easier reading (and therefore, hopefully clarity).
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pcstockton

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2012, 02:27:05 pm »

No i didnt miss your point at all.  I really appreciate the help.  I will give it a shot tonight.

thanks!
Patrick

Music Video will suffice.  I dont need custom sub-types.
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rick.ca

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Re: New Media Sub Type "Trailer" Thanks! How come we cannot have "Music"?
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2012, 03:45:28 pm »

Those of us to which to have a larger selection of choices should add our own field and customize it and not beg for this locked down field to be changed to popular requests.

I hope you didn't get this idea from me. The developers have invited requests for additions. I just think it's pointless to bother. Why would you want your personal classification system to depend on JRiver's approval of every term you may want to use?

Quote
Is there a way for my new field .Media Sub Type to take the default value of the original field Media Sub Type but still allow it to be change to one of a predetermined list?

I think you should consider using the approach I suggested. That is, use an expression field [Media Sub Type.x] to combine [Media Sub Type] and [Media Sub Type (custom)]. Then use that expression field for what you would otherwise use [Media Sub Type] for (i.e., configuring views, etc.). Let the program/Carnac do whatever it wants to do in tagging [Media Sub Type] (which, BTW, includes tagging podcasts imported by the podcast system as 'Podcast'). Use the [Media Sub Type.x] expression to set values to those already set in [Media Sub Type] or to something different based on [Filename] (e.g., the folder the file is in). [Media Sub Type (custom)] would be a "manual override" field—for cases where there is no basis for setting the value automatically. Those would probably just be for exceptions you don't want to bother dealing with in the expression.

It may sound ominous, but the basic logic of the classification expression would be straightforward...

     If(IsEmpty([Media Sub Type (custom)]),
     {series of nested If-statements to get value from [Filename], else [Media Sub Type]},
     [Media Sub Type (custom)])

That middle bit is necessarily vague because the details depend entirely on your file organization and the media sub type values you want to end up with. It will be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it. In the end, it can set a value for all files automatically, and you'll be able to override any result by setting [Media Sub Type (custom)].

There are many advantages to this approach. Unlike Auto-Import rules, it will adapt to files being reclassified by moving them to a different folder. There will be a clear separation of functions: The program will continue to use [Media Sub Type] values to determine various things, and you may need to change such values if Carnac has failed to do so correctly. Or, you might, for example, use an Auto-Import rule to set it to 'Movie' for all files from your trailer folder—so the meta data import will be available. [Media Sub Type.x] will determine how files are handled in views. It would, to use the same example, set a value of 'Trailer' for your trailer files—to distinguish them from 'Movie' in your views. Although the [Media Sub Type.x] expression may be a long one, if used effectively, it can be the one place to look to determine how all your video media is classified in views.

My suggestion is based on the premise a 'Media Sub Type' set according to the user's desired classification system is needed. That's only the case if the user insists it be so. Although I like the idea of my suggestion, I don't use it myself. I've always treated [Media Sub Type] as an internal field, using it only when convenient and 'safe' to do so. In configuring a view, I'll more often refer to [Filename] or some other existing data directly to determine what is to be displayed. Which approach makes the most sense depends on the circumstances (e.g., how well-organized the file system is) and personal preference.
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