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[natehansen66]

I've recently made the jump to J River from Foobar.........DSP capabilities and the loopback function sealed the deal. To give you a bit of background; I have active 4-way dipole speakers, with all filtering and eq done with 2 miniDSP 2x4 boards (1 per speaker). The mini's don't have enough filtering capability, so I've been looking for something to eq the signal before it goes to the mini's, and process all audio sources on my computer.

Enter J River.

I've been having a bit of trouble with the miniDSP's (probably my fault) and I'm thinking they need to be sent back to Hong Kong for repair. That would likely take a good while, and my audio addiction won't stand for it! I've been experimenting with the 7.1 capabilities of the on-board sound card on my PC as well as the DSP abilities of J River to keep my speakers making music if I do have to send out the miniDSP's..........and I'm sold! The sq of the soundcard is crap, and I just did a quickie measurement session to get all the eq'ing and filtering set in JR's PEQ, so it's far from perfect but the potential is huge. Having real-time access to the DSP and it's virtually limitless abilities is appealing.

So now I'm studying multi-channel soundcards and crossover software (JR's high and low pass filters are lacking). Thuneau's Allocator looks like the ticket, but I can't get the demo working. With the Allocator plugin open within JR I can't access the audio routing options in Allocator to get everything routed properly, and the bottom of the Allocator window is cutoff. It'll pass audio with the Allocator activated, but the routing isn't right and only 6/8 channels are working. There was a thread on the Thuneau forum but it didn't really answer any questions.

Anybody using Allocator successfully with J River, or can recommend another crossover plugin? Audiolense looks interesting but is way over budget. I'd like to avoid things like Jack and Virtual Audio Cable, and keep everything contained within J River. Maybe I should just request a more advanced crossover function for JR itself 

Thanks

[Matt]

Welcome.

Maybe I should just request a more advanced crossover function for JR itself 

Could you describe what more you are looking for?  The slope and frequency of low and high pass filters is fully configurable.  All processing is 64-bit.  There are also shelf filters, linkwitz, etc.

Thanks.

[natehansen66]

Welcome.

Could you describe what more you are looking for?  The slope and frequency of low and high pass filters is fully configurable.  All processing is 64-bit.  There are also shelf filters, linkwitz, etc.

Thanks.

As far as I can tell only 12/24 db slopes are available in JR (which, of course, can be cascaded for higher rates of cutoff). Allocator, for example, let's you define the q and also has a 6db slope that can be combined (with different frequencies) with 3 separate 12db slopes to create fully custom transfer functions varying from 6-42db/octave. JR's PEQ can be used to achieve this but you end up with a lot of filters. Makes for a long list of filters (I currently have about 40 counting the channel mixing and hp/lp)!

Other than that I've got no problems with JR's DSP! The rest of the PEQ is on par with anything else I've worked with........

[Matt]

Would it help if 36 dB/octave and 48 dB/octave were added to the low and high pass filters?

[natehansen66]

Would it help if 36 dB/octave and 48 dB/octave were added to the low and high pass filters?

To save a couple filters I suppose, although like I said multiple 12 or 24 db filters can be used to achieve this. Even then we are limited to textbook LR types........Really I'm looking for something as customizable as Allocator, actually ideally Allocator itself if anybody has any experience with it in JR.

[jdubs]

Would it help if 36 dB/octave and 48 dB/octave were added to the low and high pass filters?

Matt, this would be a great addition!

-Jim

[Matt]

Next build:
NEW: Added 'Parametric Equalizer' 36 dB/octave and 48 dB/octave slopes to the high-pass filter.

[wombat66]

........Really I'm looking for something as customizable as Allocator, actually ideally Allocator itself....

I wasn't familiar with Allocator. Interesting approach:
"Allocator is formally called the Frequency Allocator and allows one to eliminate speaker x-overs (and associated nasties). Instead, we use digital processing: stereo is converted into pairs of x-over frequencies (low L+R, mid L+R, etc.) whose amplified analogue signal is then fed directly to a speaker. Really interesting stuff and could very well be the next level of sonic performance."

Looks cool,  It IS a VST plugin. It would be nice if it could be used in Media Center.

More info here:
http://www.thuneau.com/allocator.htm

[natehansen66]

Looks cool,  It IS a VST plugin. It would be nice if it could be used in Media Center.

More info here:
http://www.thuneau.com/allocator.htm

It is cool, and quite powerful. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get it to work in JR yet. Hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow to play with it some more.

On the Thuneau forum there's a thread about using Allocator in MC15, apparently he got it to work.

[BayensF]

Hi,

First sorry for my English, it's not my native language.

I am also looking at VST/Thuneau-Allocator Light. I have build 2* a 3-way speakers without crossover and want only to go for a stereo setup.
So now I need to create a digital crossover and want to buy a good sound card. I don't want to use the on board sound card.
Minimum 5.1, prefer 7.1 to use 2 other ch for other zone speakers that do have a crossover. Any recommendations for the soundcard?
If you recommend a 5.1 it would be fine because I have a ESI Juli@ installed for the other zone with using ASIO.

The analog output will go to a 8 ch amp that direct connect to the 2*3 drivers.

I don't understand the way J River is handling the 6 channels (2xLow, 2x Mid, 2x High), can anyone make a drawing indication what the flow/path will be.
Is it like Soundfile>JRiver>JRiver EQ/PEQ>ASIO>soundcard output(SPDIF)>soundcard input(SPDIF)>Allocator>Soundcard>6 CH Analog out>Amp>drivers....?

Maybe we could work all together on this?

Fred(NL)

[hulkss]

Any recommendations for the soundcard?
Fred(NL)

I also have a system using digital XO in JRiver with filters developed in Audiolense software.
I use digital ASIO audio output from JRiver MC over USB to a Lynx Aurora D/A converter.
Here is a link to the 8 channel model (I use the 16). http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=2

[natehansen66]

Your 5.1 soundcard will be fine for 3 way speakers, give that a shot before you spend any money.

With Allocator the path will be 2 channel file->5.1 output format->allocator->PEQ (if needed, need to see what outputs Allocator assigns)->6 channels out

No soundcard loopback is necessary to make this work. If you have other PC sources you need routed through J River there's a Loopback feature that does this in software.

There's currently some issues with saving Allocator settings, so unless you have it already you may want to wait, see this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=71895.0

[BayensF]

Thanks for the link.....I am in the waiting mode now, I will buy whem the issue is solved.

[BayensF]

Your 5.1 soundcard will be fine for 3 way speakers, give that a shot before you spend any money.

With Allocator the path will be 2 channel file->5.1 output format->allocator->PEQ (if needed, need to see what outputs Allocator assigns)->6 channels out

No soundcard loopback is necessary to make this work. If you have other PC sources you need routed through J River there's a Loopback feature that does this in software.

There's currently some issues with saving Allocator settings, so unless you have it already you may want to wait, see this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=71895.0

Hi,

I am using 2 channel file->7.1 output format-> and use 6 channels out. If I use JRSS 2.0 Mixing then I don't get a full bandwith signal on all channels. If I select "No Up or Down Mixing" then when I play back a file J River will set the output channels back to 2 channels.

Concrete question, how can I get 2x2 or 2x3 or 2x4 output without mixing, so full bandwith stereo on 4, 6 or 8 Channels.

I am waiting for Thuneau to fix the bug, so now I want to tri-amping my speakers.

Thanks in advance for your support.

[BayensF]

Next build:
NEW: Added 'Parametric Equalizer' 36 dB/octave and 48 dB/octave slopes to the high-pass filter.

Hi Matt,

Could you look at my last post in this threat. It's about having 2 channels converted to 6 or 8 channels full bandwith stereo.

Thanks in adavnce for your reply.

[amdismal]

Can you use the parametric eq Mix Channels setting to add L to C, R to sub, and so on?  It doesn't work on my soundcard, admittedly, although that might be because it is not a 7.1 one (I use a Lynx AES16).  If MC addresses your soundcard correctly, this should work, and then you can use the MC crossover settings instead of Thuneau.

[BayensF]

Can you use the parametric eq Mix Channels setting to add L to C, R to sub, and so on?  It doesn't work on my soundcard, admittedly, although that might be because it is not a 7.1 one (I use a Lynx AES16).  If MC addresses your soundcard correctly, this should work, and then you can use the MC crossover settings instead of Thuneau.

  Thanks for the reply,

Good suggestion, it works perfect! For stereo music...but when watching video with 5.1 signal...bad.
By the way I am using Asus Sonar D2X 7.1

 

[amdismal]

You actually need to use the copy, rather than add, function for the other channels.  For the 5.1 you could do a downmix function first, to make it stereo, then do the copy and filter.  Then when you swap between stereo and 5.1, just turn on or off the downmix.  I think that zones could allow you to switch more easily, not sure.

[BayensF]

  OK it's OK now, I used ADD L & R to all other channels in PEQ. Then 7.1 CH + JRSS V2.0 + check for "stereo" + check for "move center to .."

Asio > ASUS XONAR > Offset=0 > SWAP C/LFE with SL/SR.

Thanks.

I re-started another topic because I had to rebuild my pc and now my sound and movie is not synchronize....