Topic: 1080i VC1 playback [Video Card Discussion] (Read 4259 times)

vairulez · « **on:** May 05, 2012, 01:21:14 am »

Does anyone have smooth playback of 1080i VC1 blurays with media center ? Because I just tried one and it's unwatchable ...
So I'm trying to find out who is the culprit here, hardware or software ...

jmone · « **Reply #1 on:** May 05, 2012, 02:09:17 am »

Plays fine for me (and even on a iGPU) BUT.... these are one of the most demanding common formats esp if you are using ROHQ and a low powered GPU. So a couple of questions on your setup:
- Version of MC (eg 17.0.140 etc)
- What options have you got set under Tools --> Options --> Video --> General Video Settings
- What options have you got set under Tools --> Options --> Video --> Display Settings
- What is your Graphics Card and the CPU
- Connection to the TV / Monitor ? (eg HDMI 1920x1080@ 60hz, 24hz etc)

vairulez · « **Reply #2 on:** May 05, 2012, 02:28:24 am »

here we go:
mc 17.0.440
general video settings : RO with madvr, no hardware acceleration (doesn't work great with my system), videoclock
display setting : automatic display change
GC : gt430, CPU : e6850
connection HDMI 1920x1080 at 23.976

Thanks for your help jmone

jmone · « **Reply #3 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:12:16 am »

OK - your issue is that the gt430 is really borderline for madVR on this sort of material (note: I had a 450 and a 550Ti that were just fine). You can try to modify some of the madVR settings (while playing a video you can right click on the video --> Direct Show Filters --> Mad VR) to get to it's settings. You may have to play around but these are the ones that work for me on the iGPU so I think you should with some tweaking be fine. Try stuff like the following and you may want to try it one at a time:
1) Scaling Algorithms. Change them all to "Mitchell-Netravali" as it is a great looking output (IMO) but is also easier on the GPU than any of the tap based one
2) Rendering - General Settings: Check "Enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" (you will see madVR switch back and forward but Exclusive mode is better on marginal GPUs)
2) Rendering - Exclusive Mode Settings: Check "delay switch to exclusive mode by 3 seconds", "present several frames in advance", "run presentation in a separate thread". You can also try increasing the "video frames shall be resented in advance", I use 8, Flush, flush & wait (sleep), don't flush, don't flush

There are 1,000 combos you can try and you may want to have a look over at the madVR thread for other gt430 users (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228&page=655) and what settings they use.

The other options are:
- Try these tweaks with HW Accell ON (your CPU may have issues decoding this content in SW mode)
- Run RO Std (not HQ as it will be madVR's GPU requirements causing you an issue on this config)
- Get a better GPU (with DDR5 Memory) and all this tweaking would go away!

Let us know how you go...

jmone · « **Reply #4 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:16:53 am »

I just looked up the e6850 benchmark and I will be very very surprised if you get smooth playback on these sort of clips without using HW Acell....and then you are stuck with what you can wring out of that gt430. If I was you I'd just stick to RO Std on this setup but you may be able to tweak it up.....good luck (you will need it!)

vairulez · « **Reply #5 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:19:13 am »

OK, so what GC would you recommend (nvidia only).

jmone · « **Reply #6 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:23:22 am »

Anything with DDR5 Memory (madVR likes fast memory throughput for all it's copies to and from the GPU). For dedicated HTPC duties I found the GTX550Ti was good, quiet, cool and cheap but I'm sure there is a more modern model. Give the tweaks a go, it may work

on your gt430 as I've heard of others having success with this card.... (and I've got the Intel iGPU working perfectly with these tweaks - but I do have the grunt of the i7 to fall back to )

Sandy B Ridge · « **Reply #7 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:56:42 am »

Agree with jmone on this one. I have a GT430 and it is at the cusp of performance. I went through a phase of having loads of presentation glitches in MadVR a couple of weeks ago and never really figured out why. I tweaked the settings a little and made it better, but don't really know what setting helped. It sounds silly, but I think a restart of the PC is what did it!

The GT430 shouldn't really struggle with 23.976 content. I have trouble with some 50i and 60i content especially live TV (50i in the UK). Make sure you are not trying to display 50 or 60I content at 24. I have a SandyBridge 2500k but it is hardly taxed at all - never seen it above 15% CPU use!

For what it's worth here are my settings:

MC settings (Ctrl-O): Video:
Video mode: Red October HQ
Hardware Accel - On
VideoClock - On

Display settings:
Enable automatic changing - On
Film (23.976): 1920 x 1080 x 32 x 24
Film (24): 1920 x 1080 x 32 x 24
NTSC: 1920 x 1080 x 32 x 59
PAL: 1920 x 1080 x 32 x 50
Default:1920 x 1080 x 32 x 50

MadVR settings: (from right click whilst something is playing as per jmone)
devices: yourdevice: display modes:
switch to matching display mode - On (when playback starts)
restore original -On (when media player leaves fullscreen)
list of modes - 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60

processing:
decoding: All Off
deinterlacing: automatically activate - On (if in doubt, activate)
disable automatic source - Unchecked
Only look at frame centre - On
Perform in separate thread - On

scaling algorithms:
chroma: softcubic 80
luma : mitchell netravalli
downscaling: bicubic

rendering:
general: all unchecked apart from enable automatic fullscreen exclusive
CPU queue 24
GPU queue 10

windowed: backbuffers 8, then: flush, flush & wait (sleep), don't flush, don't flush

exclusive: show seekbar -Off
Delay by 3s - On
Present several - On

frames in advance 16
then: flush, flush and wait (sleep), don't , don't,
bottom 3 options unchecked

trade quality: all unchecked.

I have NVIDIA drivers 285.62 (clean install)

Try these and see if you get any improvement.

SBR

PS I have put 23.976 as 24 on purpose because my amp doesn't do 23.976 passthrough well at all and I find this with videoclock much smoother.

PPS I'll seriously consider one of the new Kepler cards over the summer when they get released.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #8 on:** May 05, 2012, 06:13:30 am »

Same here. Had the GT430 (DDR3) but found it laking. Returned it and got the GT440 (DDR5), also have a machine with the GTS450 (DDR5). Both work great. Can't tell the difference between them regarding video playback/quality - so get the least expensive one (best price) you can - or backoff on the settings like mentioned above.
Good luck.

vairulez · « **Reply #9 on:** May 05, 2012, 06:57:05 am »

thanks for the settings sandy B ridge. I've tried them, it's better but far from perfect. Looking at madvr stats I have loads of dropped frames and all my queues are at minimum even with hardware acceleration. That seems weird.
I am going to install the same drivers you have and see if that helps.

vairulez · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:07:09 am »

well nothing seems to work ...
I've monitored my cpu while playing the 1080i vc1 blu ray and it stays at 30% so I don't understand what is going on and why I have so many dropped frames
How can I be sure that hardware acceleartion (dxva2) or lav cuvid is working ?

Sandy B Ridge · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:16:36 am »

You say 1080i in the thread title and say that you're trying to play back at 23.976. You aren't trying to play back 50i content at 24p are you? This I have found impossible.

My GT430 is slightly factory overclocked. You could download the (very good) NVIDIA Inspector utility and try ramping up your card a little (at your own risk of course!). This will also tell you how hard the GT430 is working.

If you want to manually tweak the LAV Video settings for CUVID or DXVA you'll need to manually register/install the filter and use a Custom Video Mode in MC. I haven't needed to do this in a while.

Maybe your system memory is a bit slow for the interaction between CPU and GPU. Don't know.

SBR

vairulez · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:02:19 pm »

I try to play the 1080i concert at 59.947p. isn't it the right frequency ?
I'll give a shot at nvidia inspector tomorrow to see if the vpu/gpu is really maxed out.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:16:08 pm »

Are playing the file from the computer's hard drive, off the disc itself (a Blu-ray drive), or streaming it from a server (over your network)?

jmone · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2012, 04:06:48 pm »

Quote from: vairulez on May 05, 2012, 03:02:19 pm

I try to play the 1080i concert at 59.947p. isn't it the right frequency ?

You could try 60hz as well, but yes that is correct for 1080i NTSC based material (I also have some 1080/50i material so 50hz is correct for these)

Quote

I'll give a shot at nvidia inspector tomorrow to see if the vpu/gpu is really maxed out.

What is the madVR stats saying (eg which queue is being hammered to 0). You CPU load should be low if you have HW Accell ON and a high load when it is OFF. Remember at 60 fps it is trying to render well over twice the number of frames per second than a blu ray + deinterlacing (if you are doing that in the GPU as well). So even after your tweaking if you are still dropping frames in madVR then 60fps material it is just too much for your GT430.

vairulez · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:33:29 pm »

here's what nvidia inspector tells me when i'm playing the video :
gpu load :90%, MCU : 80%, VPU : 60%
so I guess I need a new graphic card... What is the best choice for me (I don't think I can wait for the new keplers) GTS 450,GTX 550 Ti, gtx560 ? Are all brands equal in terms of performance and noise ?
Thanks in advance for your advices
edit : could the ASUS ENGTX550 Ti DC/DI/1GD5 be a winner ?

jmone · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:53:46 pm »

Looks fine to me (good fast memory).

I had this one and was more than happy with it - http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3799#sp
I also had this one but it was far too loud under load - http://www.palit.biz/palit/vgapro.php?id=1393

The other guys may will be more current than I on the latest / greatest nVidia GPU suggestions....

Sandy B Ridge · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2012, 03:02:33 am »

Quote from: vairulez on May 05, 2012, 11:33:29 pm

... What is the best choice for me (I don't think I can wait for the new keplers) GTS 450,GTX 550 Ti, gtx560 ?

If you go for a GTX 560, just be careful which one you buy if you want to bitstream HD audio. Some of the newer ones have the chip from the GTX 570/580 in it and can't.

The 450 or 550 should be plenty of grunt. You may even be able to get a passive one without fan.

SBR

vairulez · « **Reply #18 on:** May 06, 2012, 04:34:57 am »

I ordered the asus this morning, I'll let you know if it works better ...

vairulez · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2012, 11:42:44 am »

I just swapped the cards and now everything works great ...
what are the recommended settings for the best quality with madVR ?
What is used by red october HD for decoding + deinterlacing with hardware acceleration ( cuda+vector adaptive ?)

jmone · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:03:13 pm »

Providing it is all working and not dropping frames, there are no "quality" settings in madVR as such..... more preferences on what algorithm you prefer for luma and chroma scaling. Some like it sharp, others soft but each have tradeoffs for ringing etc.

The decoding and deinterlacing is being done by your GPU (on supported formats). Currently LAV does both the decoding and deinterlacing on the GPU then hands it to madVR for the rendering though shortly the deinterlacing will be done via madVR (expected small performance bump).

Good to hear it is working well! The bottom line is now it is working, kick back and enjoy the content!

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Author Topic: 1080i VC1 playback [Video Card Discussion] (Read 4259 times)