Topic: Replay Gain & Tags? (Read 5746 times)

preproman · « **on:** May 19, 2012, 03:23:15 pm »

How to make the replay gain that JR gives each stick in the replay gain filed?

preproman · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2012, 03:37:20 pm »

Just saw this:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72067.0

But I didn't get any answers.

preproman · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2012, 12:04:07 pm »

Any word on this?

Matt · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2012, 12:10:18 pm »

Could you restate the question? I'm not quite sure what you're looking for.

Thanks.

preproman · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2012, 04:21:15 am »

Quote from: Matt on May 21, 2012, 12:10:18 pm

Could you restate the question? I'm not quite sure what you're looking for.

Thanks.

I trying to find out why the replay gain tag does not stick.

All files are on a NAS. I don't run MC Server.. On one PC I run auto import, JR analyze all files and assigns a replay gain value to each track in the tag filed.
I tag all files with correct album art, correct artist name, correct album artist and all other tags..

Now when I setup a totally different PC and run auto import on it. It will analyze all the files again and want to assign a replay gain value on the same files again instead of just reading the tags that should already have the replay gain value assigned to it. All other tag values stick. Except replay gain.

Now If I use a different program to assign replay gain to the tracks - outside of JR - then if I import those files, the replay gain tag values ARE there.

It seems that JR does not write it's own replay gain to the tag value permanently.

Alex B · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2012, 08:05:40 am »

Either the Replay Gain tags were not saved to the files at all for some reason (the first MC instance has the RG values in the database and it does not need the physical file tags), or they were written to the files, but for some reason got corrupted or removed before the files were imported to the other MC instance.

You can inspect the actual file tags by checking the so called tag dump: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59513.msg430491#msg430491

For example, a "before" tag dump:

Quote

MPEG-1 Layer 3
254 Kbit VBR
44.1 Khz Joint stereo

Copyrighted: No
Original: No
Protected by CRC: No
Encoder: LAME
Gapless: Yes (576 start, 576 end)

ID3v1 Tag: (128 bytes)
   Name: Big River
   Artist: Van Halen
   Album: A Different Kind of Truth
   Year: 2012
   Comment:
   Track #: 12
   Genre: Hard Rock (79)

ID3v2.3 Tag: (121422 bytes)
  TALB (Album): A Different Kind of Truth
  TPE1 (Artist): Van Halen
  TCON (Genre): Hard Rock
  TIT2 (Name): Big River
  TRCK (Track #): 12
  TYER (Year): 2012
  TXXX (TOOL NAME): Media Center
  TXXX (TOOL VERSION): 17.0.147
  APIC (Image File) (Cover): <too large to display>

And an "after" tag dump:

Quote

MPEG-1 Layer 3
254 Kbit VBR
44.1 Khz Joint stereo

Copyrighted: No
Original: No
Protected by CRC: No
Encoder: LAME
Gapless: Yes (576 start, 576 end)

ID3v1 Tag: (128 bytes)
   Name: Big River
   Artist: Van Halen
   Album: A Different Kind of Truth
   Year: 2012
   Comment:
   Track #: 12
   Genre: Hard Rock (79)

ID3v2.3 Tag: (121422 bytes)
  TIT2 (Name): Big River
  TPE1 (Artist): Van Halen
  TALB (Album): A Different Kind of Truth
  TRCK (Track #): 12
  TYER (Year): 2012
  TCON (Genre): Hard Rock
  TBPM (BPM): 105
  APIC (Image File) (Cover): <too large to display>
  TXXX (Intensity): 5
  TXXX (replaygain_track_g..): -10.40 dB
  TXXX (replaygain_track_p..): 1.000000
  TXXX (Tool Name): Media Center
  TXXX (Tool Version): 17.0.154

Could you try to reproduce the problem with a test file and post your "before" and "after" tag dumps?

preproman · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2012, 01:57:07 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on May 22, 2012, 08:05:40 am

Either the Replay Gain tags were not saved to the files at all for some reason (the first MC instance has the RG values in the database and it does not need the physical file tags), or they were written to the files, but for some reason got corrupted or removed before the files were imported to the other MC instance.

You can inspect the actual file tags by checking the so called tag dump: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59513.msg430491#msg430491

For example, a "before" tag dump:

And an "after" tag dump:

Could you try to reproduce the problem with a test file and post your "before" and "after" tag dumps?

So we are talking about two PC here and NAS here. Which PC will I get the tag dump from?

During the import of a new file on PC 1 " Miles Davis - Track 0" - MC runs Analyzing audio this gives it a replay gain number.

On PC 2 I run the auto import on file " Miles Davis - Track 0" - MC runs Analyzing audio again on this file to give it a replay gain value.

Please note. All other tags are saved to the file so when I run auto import on PC 2 all tags from PC 1 is there - except the replay gain.

So which PC should I run the tag dump on? I'm think on PC 1 after the import is done?

Alex B · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2012, 02:50:49 pm »

On PC 1 check the physical tags from the tag dump after the analyzer has run. If the Replay Gain tags are also in the file, you could disable the analyzer in the auto-import options on the PC 2 and verify that the physical tags are still present.

However, I may have recently noticed that the automatic Replay Gain analysis doesn't always trigger tag writing as it should (I am not sure if I recall this correctly, but I'll try to reproduce the behavior and report back.)

I have RG analysis disabled in the Auto-Import options and actually I rarely use Auto-Import anymore. I have done my mass importing years ago. Usually I just drag and drop the occasional new files to one of my Playing Now lists and right-click import from there.

Alex B · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2012, 04:28:41 pm »

I remembered it right and you are right too. This is probably a bug.

As a test, I loaded a small a test library and enabled Auto-Import with all bells and whistless. After running Auto-import once manually (to make sure that all old files are fully processed) I dropped a new FLAC album folder into the configured import folder. MC imported the audio files, got cover art from Internet (set to store only externally), and eventually analyzed the files for Replay Gain. MC wrote its own Tool Name and Tool Version tags (probably when Image File field value was saved), but it never wrote the Replain Gain, Peak Level, BPM and Intensity tags to the files.

In addition to not writing the RG tags, the analyzer started only after several minutes had passed and the process was extremely slow. The computer was sitting almost idle while I waited the analysis process to start. It is good that the analyzer does not consume all available CPU when it runs in background, but it should start immediately and run faster when the computer has nothing else to do.

A log file is attached.

Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachment.

preproman · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2012, 05:04:19 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on May 22, 2012, 04:28:41 pm

I remembered it right and you are right too. This is probably a bug.

OK - any fix in sight. I'm getting ready to install parallels on a MAC so I can put JR on it. However, I have 45,000 audio files and I don't really want to go through that analyzing process again. The replay gain should already be there. It takes 3 days to analyze all the files.

Alex B · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2012, 05:08:33 pm »

To save the library values to the file tags you can do: select the files > right-click > Library Tools > Update Tags (from library).

You may also want to disable the automatic analysis and analyze the newly imported files manually until the problem gets fixed. It would be quite a bit faster and it seems to write the tags correctly. (select the files > right-click > Library Tools > Analyze Audio...)

preproman · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2012, 05:42:09 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on May 22, 2012, 05:08:33 pm

To save the library values to the file tags you can do: select the files > right-click > Library Tools > Update Tags (from library).

You may also want to disable the automatic analysis and analyze the newly imported files manually until the problem gets fixed. It would be quite a bit faster and it seems to write the tags correctly. (select the files > right-click > Library Tools > Analyze Audio...)

OK - I'll test a few files this way first.

Matt · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2012, 01:41:12 pm »

Quote from: Alex B

The automatic audio analysis (as a part of the auto-import process) does not write the Replay Gain, Peak Level, BPM and Intensity tags to the imported files.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72284.msg489634#msg489634

This is by design.

It was a compromise so that a new user that let auto-import run wouldn't have their file tags changed.

I think whatever we do here we'll get in trouble.

JustinChase · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2012, 01:58:49 pm »

Quote from: Matt on May 23, 2012, 01:41:12 pm

This is by design.

It was a compromise so that a new user that let auto-import run wouldn't have their file tags changed.

I think whatever we do here we'll get in trouble.

I thought the decision was not to overwrite any tags. It sounds like this isn't writing any tags, which seems wrong to me.

Alex B · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2012, 05:23:21 pm »

Quote from: Matt on May 23, 2012, 01:41:12 pm

This is by design.

I see, however that doesn't seem quite logical. The users expect the analyzed files have also the corresponding file tags so that the data is available outside the MC instance that performed the analysis.

Quote

It was a compromise so that a new user that let auto-import run wouldn't have their file tags changed.

Isn't "get cover art" enabled by default? I just imported a small two-track test album (a CD single) in 10 different supported formats. MC got cover art and embedded it to the tags and wrote the Tool Name & Version tags to all files and the JR Date tags to some formats. Unless the new user already has cover art in a format that MC can recognize, MC will tag the files anyway.

I agree that it is better to not do file tag changes by default. When I am testing a new program I don't want it to change my personal data anyhow, at least not before I understand how the program works and can trust it.

Quote

I think whatever we do here we'll get in trouble.

Not necessarily. You could just disable the Get Cover Art and Analyze Audio options by default. Present and explain these two options before auto-import starts its initial run and let the user choose. If the user wants to run the analyzer in background, write the corresponding tags and perhaps also make it run faster (if possible).

preproman · « **Reply #15 on:** May 24, 2012, 04:53:04 pm »

Quote from: Matt on May 23, 2012, 01:41:12 pm

This is by design.

It was a compromise so that a new user that let auto-import run wouldn't have their file tags changed.

I think whatever we do here we'll get in trouble.

Dag Matt - I usually agree with you on most everything. However, this one I do not. If analyzing audio is first ran and the replay tags are embedded - why do you think a new user would want to go through that waiting process again if they have a second pc they want to install JR on? After the first install users - new and old (and I'm assuming here) would make sure all tags are good. Then the second install, tag wise, should mirror what you have worked hard to tag - and get all the tags correct - this includes repay gain and everything else.

If a new user has 3 PC / laptops and has 20 thousand files on a NAS. They would have to go through this waiting process each time. Not Right..

Matt · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2012, 05:07:07 pm »

I don't feel strongly about this. It's one of the hardest issues for us to deal with.

The program can't ask too many questions on a fresh install that are hard to understand. In fact, it probably shouldn't ask any questions to low to medium experience users.

At the same time, it must not do things an advanced user might find objectionable.

jaynyc · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:31:27 am »

+1 for an option to automatically write ReplayGain and related tags upon analysis. I've been banging my head against this same wall in an eerily similar thread
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72067.new;topicseen#new

jaynyc · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2012, 12:15:44 am »

gonna shamelessly bump this one.

i think we should have the option to write replaygain tags to the track upon audio analysis.

Neco · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2012, 05:36:59 pm »

And surely an option the user has to explicitly enable, is a decent and well-suited compromise?

jaynyc · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2012, 05:43:55 pm »

Quote from: Neco on October 04, 2012, 05:36:59 pm

And surely an option the user has to explicitly enable, is a decent and well-suited compromise?

completely fine.

Matt · « **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2012, 04:33:53 pm »

This option was added to the auto-import settings in MC18.

It's called 'Write file tags when analyzing audio, getting cover art, and applying folder-based tags'.

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Author Topic: Replay Gain & Tags? (Read 5746 times)