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[Blaine78]

(17.0.160) ASIO DSD over PCM DoP 1.0 (0xFA/0x05) still not working with Mytek DSD (firewire) DAC.
well it's a step closer. it now plays static noise where before wouldn't play at all.

[Matt]

ASIO DSD over PCM DoP 1.0 (0xFA/0x05) still not working with Mytek DSD (firewire) DAC.
well it's a step closer. it now plays static noise where before wouldn't play at all.

DoP is not supported (or needed) with ASIO.

You must use native DSD (Options > Video > Bitstreaming) with ASIO.  It should work with Mytek.

[Blaine78]

DoP is not supported (or needed) with ASIO.

You must use native DSD (Options > Video > Bitstreaming) with ASIO.  It should work with Mytek.

Gave it go, couldn't get it to work. wouldn't play at all.

[chrisr]

I am having the same problems with the past 2 updates.  With the previous update, DSD playback was extremely slow and no sound.  With the update released today, playback is too fast and only static.  I use a Playback Designs dac, so it must not be only a Mytek issue of the original poster.  I am using native dsd streaming over asio, not dsd over pcm.  Dsd playback worked fine a few weeks ago, so must be a problem with the latest updates. Thanks.

[Monteverdi]

Matt, I am using Mytek DAC. I don't understand about the exact setting. The DSD file imported is recognised as an audio file. How could I play through video bitstreaming as the DSD file is not imported as a vedio file?

[Matt]

Matt, I am using Mytek DAC. I don't understand about the exact setting. The DSD file imported is recognised as an audio file. How could I play through video bitstreaming as the DSD file is not imported as a vedio file?

This tries to explain it:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD_Format#Bitstreaming

Let us know if that gets you going.

[Monteverdi]

Matt, still failed to play native DSD file.

I tried with a free 2.8 MHz DSD file downloaded from 2L website. Audio output is ASIO. Options > Video > Bitstream > Custom > and both DSD and DSD over PCM (DoP) are checked. DoP format is DoP 1.0 (0xFA / 0x05). My computer is Dell XPS 13" ultrabook and connected via an Audioquest USB 2.0 cable with Mytek 192 DSD DAC. Mytek's firmware is version 1.4.3 and usb driver is version 1.32.5.

The file is imported as a audio file. When the play button is pressed, the following appears on the screen "Playback could not be started on the output 'ASIO' using the format 'DSD 2.8 MHz 1 bit 2 ch'...

Anything wrong with my setting? Have I missed any important steps?

[Matt]

Options > Video > Bitstream > Custom > and both DSD and DSD over PCM (DoP) are checked.

Check only 'DSD' (not DoP) if you're using ASIO.  Does that help?

We're still working to find a DSD model that works for all hardware, and it may be a few more weeks before everything is sorted.

[chrisr]

Matt, that didn't help me.  DSD streaming using ASIO (Playback Designs for me) was working a few weeks ago but has stopped working in the latest builds.

[Monteverdi]

Matt, sorry, even if only checked 'DSD', the same pop-up message appears. Look forward to your forthcoming DSD model.

[Matt]

Matt, that didn't help me.  DSD streaming using ASIO (Playback Designs for me) was working a few weeks ago but has stopped working in the latest builds.

Please try switching to 'Playback Designs' in Options > Audio > ASIO > Output mode settings... > DSD Mode.

[Matt]

Sorry.  DSD bitstreaming using ASIO was simply broken.

Next build:
Fixed: DSD bitstreaming over ASIO was not working properly for the last few builds.
Changed: Removed 'DSD Mode' setting from ASIO configuration (now 'Playback Designs' mode is used automatically if a device named 'AKDesign USB ASIO' is used).
Changed: Slight revision to DSD bitstreaming with ASIO open call ordering (removed first sample rate setting call, as Playback Designs no longer requires it).

[Matt]

Here's a build with the changes listed above:
http://files.jriver.com/temp/MediaCenter170162.exe

My hope is that DSD bitstreaming over ASIO will work with all known hardware with no user settings (other than turning on DSD bitstreaming).

I would appreciate any testing.

[chrisr]

Matt, the 162 build is working fine for me for native DSD playback on my Playback Designs.  Thank you!

[Monteverdi]

Matt, used version 162 to play the DSD test file downloaded from 2L website. The new version could play the file but recognised it as a 1 bit 352.8kHz dff file instead of the original 1 bit 2.8MHz DSD file. Checked the audio path which indicated no input and no output. The Mytek DAC did not detect any input signal so no sound as a result. Please find out why MC changed the file to a sample rate to 352.8kHz. Thanks.

[Ychng]

Hi Matt,

I've added a Meitner MA-1 to my system (in addition to the Mytek). Was hoping to get ASIO DSD playback working with build 162, but no go with ASIO - it gives the message "playback cannot be started with xxx"; this is with the DSD over PCM (DoP) only checked. The same settings would play with build 160 but I got only static.

WASAPI event-style works just fine with DoP on the MA-1.  So it seems both Mytek and Meitner are out, only Playback Designs hardware is working?

Thanks,
Yeang

[Blaine78]

just letting you know, 17.0.165 still a not working with DSD via ASIO to Mytek.

[Monteverdi]

Matt, I've just upgraded Mytek's firmware to version 1.6.0. I noted that there is a guide about using J River to play DSD files by means of DoP via WASAPI Event Style included in the upgrade folder. I've tried it but noted that the method merely down sampled a DSD file to a 1-bit 176.4 kHz PCM file. It sounds inferior to the same file in a 24 bit 192 kHz format. Look forward to your DSD ASIO solution.

[Matt]

I've added a Meitner MA-1 to my system (in addition to the Mytek). Was hoping to get ASIO DSD playback working with build 162, but no go with ASIO - it gives the message "playback cannot be started with xxx"; this is with the DSD over PCM (DoP) only checked.

ASIO requires 'DSD' as the only checked bitstreaming option.

DoP is currently only supported with WASAPI - Event Style.

[Matt]

Matt, I've just upgraded Mytek's firmware to version 1.6.0. I noted that there is a guide about using J River to play DSD files by means of DoP via WASAPI Event Style included in the upgrade folder. I've tried it but noted that the method merely down sampled a DSD file to a 1-bit 176.4 kHz PCM file. It sounds inferior to the same file in a 24 bit 192 kHz format. Look forward to your DSD ASIO solution.

Have you selected 'DoP' (and not 'DSD') as the bitstreaming format?

When bitstreaming, if you hover over the volume slider, it will say 'Bitstreaming' (and won't be changeable).

Audio Path will be empty (although I hope to change this to indicate that it's bitstreaming).

[Blaine78]

Hi Matt.
(17.0.165) My Mytek DSD DAC has been updated with the latest 1.6 firmware. I've tried both DSD only, and DSD dop bitstreaming with ASIO. both configurations unable to play DSD files

[Monteverdi]

Matt, ASIO DSD works with the latest Mytek firmware 1.6.0. I simply need to check DSD in Video bitstreaming. Interestingly, MC indicates that it is a 1-bit 352.8 kHz dff file whilst Mytek shows that the input signal is DSD. Audio Path is empty. I am just puzzled whether the file being played by MC in this set up has been maintained in its native DSD format or down sampled to 358.2 kHz PCM. Appreciate your response.

[Monteverdi]

Matt, what worked a few minutes ago does not work now. After I played the DSD file via ASIO DSD successfully, I switched to play a few PCM files. Then replayed the DSD file but this time no sound at all. Volume bar showed bitstreaming. Audio Path remained empty. File indicated as a 1-bit 358.2 kHz dff. Mytek revealed DSD signal input. Do not understand why no sound?

[ted_b]

I have both the Mytek and the Meitner.  The Meitner plays DoP fine (never checked ASIO but don't care).  The Mytek works with ASIO (USB) and DoP firewire (but DoP USB is broken).  When DSD is working J River reports 2.8mhz 1 bit properly.  I have the Mytek's latest builds (I am a field beta tester for Michal) so firmware 1.63b (same issues with firmware 1.60 btw) and USBPAL driver 1.33.1.  For DoP USB, the DAC shows 176k and plays no sound, yet J River shows tracks playing, but reports them as 176k.  J River build is 17.0.182  FYI.

[Matt]

I have both the Mytek and the Meitner.  The Meitner plays DoP fine (never checked ASIO but don't care).  The Mytek works with ASIO (USB) and DoP firewire (but DoP USB is broken).  When DSD is working J River reports 2.8mhz 1 bit properly.  I have the Mytek's latest builds (I am a field beta tester for Michal) so firmware 1.63b (same issues with firmware 1.60 btw) and USBPAL driver 1.33.1.  For DoP USB, the DAC shows 176k and plays no sound, yet J River shows tracks playing, but reports them as 176k.  J River build is 17.0.182  FYI.

Is it possible the DAC isn't switching into DSD mode?  This would cause Media Center to play happily, but the DAC would output a very quiet (possibly inaudible) signal.

Since it works with other DACs, I'm not sure what else it might be.

Does Michal have any ideas, and are they able to reproduce it?  I'll send him an email to this thread to see if he can help.

[ted_b]

Matt, I would guess it's the DAC or driver, yes (although MC is not reporting DSD, but 176).  I will email Michal too.  He is currently in Iceland but accessing email.

Update:  I moved to MC 17.0.183 and nothing changed re: DSD64.  However, Mytek ASIO (USB) supports DSD128, but DoP doesn't, even working firewire.  When attempting to do DoP DSD128 MC returns an error saying Wasapi-Event Style doesn't like 24/352.8k and it might be my device.  EDIT:  That makes "some" sense as the Mytek doesn't support PCM 24/352k for listening, but Michal posted on Mytek forum over on CA (June 6th) that "Mytek USB will be able to do 352.8k for the purpose of allowing 128xDSD"....so I'm not sure of anything right now, until I get regular DoP USB working here on Windows.  It works fine on OSX, but not sure nay of those players yet support Dop DSD128.

By the way, this thread has a lot of "ASIO DoP doesn't work" which tells me that some education is needed.  ASIO and DoP are two different protocols.  They shouldn't (and can't ) be referenced together.   ASIO is older and an offshoot of what Steinberg developed as a pro handshake.  It does not require DSD to "ride" over PCM, but may end up being a lesser supported protocol for DSD, and is certainly not OS independent.  IMHO it seems more development is going into DoP (DSD over PCM) as it takes advantage of the huge momentum in 24 bit USB computer audio, etc. and is available via OSX and Linux too, without driver manipulations.  My $.02.  But please, when you are reporting trouble with DSD make sure you differentiate ASIO and DoP and let the vendors know which one you are using.

[Monteverdi]

Matt, I've got no problem in playing DSD files in DSF format via DoP and USB with Mytek dac. I am annoyed by the "pop" noises heard between tracks. Don't have any clue to fix this problem. I am using the latest Mytek firmware 1.6.3 beta and MC17 182.

[ted_b]

On a hunch I reinstalled USBPAL 1.33.10 (for the second reinstall) and now all is well.  DoP USB works, as does DoP firewire, (and ASIO works too). 

Monteverdi, thanks for the post.  Made me go back and relook.

[joelha]

I'm going to give Ted a break here and post my question on this thread.

I've abused him too much already.  

I'm getting DSD using DoP and Wasapi (Event Style), however I want to be able to get DSD X2 and can't swing it.

I don't want DSD X2 converted to PCM. I want DSD X2 using DoP or even ASIO, again if that doesn't get me a PCM conversion.

The issue appears to be that MC won't even play DSD X2 most of the time, let alone output it to the Mytek in a form which I can play out of my speakers.

I've trying using ASIO with no success at all.

I updated the firmware on my Mytek today and MC 17 was updated yesterday.

I hope my questions and points above make sense.

How can I get DSD X2 bitstreamed to my Mytek?

Thanks,

Joel

[Matt]

By the way, this thread has a lot of "ASIO DoP doesn't work" which tells me that some education is needed.  ASIO and DoP are two different protocols.  They shouldn't (and can't ) be referenced together.   ASIO is older and an offshoot of what Steinberg developed as a pro handshake.  It does not require DSD to "ride" over PCM, but may end up being a lesser supported protocol for DSD, and is certainly not OS independent.  IMHO it seems more development is going into DoP (DSD over PCM) as it takes advantage of the huge momentum in 24 bit USB computer audio, etc. and is available via OSX and Linux too, without driver manipulations.  My $.02.  But please, when you are reporting trouble with DSD make sure you differentiate ASIO and DoP and let the vendors know which one you are using.

Good advice.

I think you're right that manufacturers like DoP because it lets them piggy-back on the Windows (or Apple, Linux, etc.) USB drivers instead of writing and supporting their own ASIO drivers.

There have been a couple requests to do DoP over ASIO.  While this would be technically possible, we think it's better to adhere to the official ASIO DSD delivery mechanism specified by ASIO v2.2.

[joelha]

At the risk of asking a painfully foolish question, where can I download ASIO v. 2.2?

Thanks,

Joel

[ted_b]

At the risk of asking a painfully foolish question, where can I download ASIO v. 2.2?

Thanks,

Joel

Joel,
If you have MC 17.0.183 and the latest Mytek firmware and drivers then you have what you need.  Take a look at my screenshot jpeg and make sure its set up that way, with those ASIO driver line items.  And pick "DSD' in Video bitstreaming NOT DoP.  Mytek DAC will show "HDSD" if playing DSD128.

 

[joelha]

Ted,

You are the man. That did it.

Thank you very very much.

The listening comparisons between redbook and upsampled DSD X2 can now proceed.

Joel

[thesnodger]

Hi Matt,

I've added a Meitner MA-1 to my system (in addition to the Mytek). Was hoping to get ASIO DSD playback working with build 162, but no go with ASIO - it gives the message "playback cannot be started with xxx"; this is with the DSD over PCM (DoP) only checked. The same settings would play with build 160 but I got only static.

WASAPI event-style works just fine with DoP on the MA-1.  So it seems both Mytek and Meitner are out, only Playback Designs hardware is working?

Thanks,
Yeang

Hi,

I am also having the exact same issue with my Meitner MA-1.

So I can confirm that WASAPI event-style works with DoP, but the Native ASIO driver does not work.

I have DSD checked in Options>Video>Bitstreaming but I get the same error when trying to play back a DSD file (I am using DSF exclusively). Hi-Res FLAC, and regular 16-bit/44.1Khz material also works absolutely fine.

Like Yeang, my preference is to use the native ASIO driver as it has no dependencies on Windows services (meaning I can shut them off).

I must also add that I can get DSD native over ASIO using Foobar2000 with the SACD plugin and DSD Proxy (I think that's what it is called).

So is this just something that you guys need to do a bit more work on to fix it? Will we see a fix in version 17 or will an upgrade to 18 be necessary?

BTW, I am using an extremely tweaked version of Windows 7 x64 with only 5 services running and J River 17 (Build 184) as the shell which I why I am not keen to go back to WASAPI event style as it needs 3 additional services running to work whereas ASIO needs none. Thanks!

[Bigguy49]

Just received my Mytek DAC and have been reading both this thread and the (huge) one on Computer Audiophile.  I guess a little knowledge (I am a newbie to computer music servers, etc.) is a dangerous thing but I WAS under the impression that ASIO output was the way to get native DSD files played back as unadulterated DSD.  Now I am reading the Mytek manual and it says to use "USB2.0 Wasapi Setup with DoP DSD".  This bitstreaming format is selected even though there is an option to check "DSD".

Not sure what affect of DoP DSD is but would like to understand a bit ;-) better. 

How does one know whether DSD is actually being outputed to audio system?

Also, when I downloaded MC17, there is a dialog box on the left side which says "Build Conversion Code".  What does this do?  If not the right selection for hi-res audio, how do you revert?  I believe I may have selected this.

Boy, this is harder than I expected!   

[ted_b]

Just received my Mytek DAC and have been reading both this thread and the (huge) one on Computer Audiophile.  I guess a little knowledge (I am a newbie to computer music servers, etc.) is a dangerous thing but I WAS under the impression that ASIO output was the way to get native DSD files played back as unadulterated DSD.  Now I am reading the Mytek manual and it says to use "USB2.0 Wasapi Setup with DoP DSD".  This bitstreaming format is selected even though there is an option to check "DSD".

Not sure what affect of DoP DSD is but would like to understand a bit ;-) better. 

How does one know whether DSD is actually being outputed to audio system?

My recommendation is to read up on DoP.  It is pure native DSD playback, and your Mytek will show "DSD" on the front panel.  However, if you wanna use ASIO with MC then that is another viable DSD option.  Your choice.

Read this (this link is also posted a couple times on that CA thread you referenced):
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue60/dsd_usb.htm

[Bigguy49]

Did read about DoP in referenced article (Thanks!) and others.  Got Mytek up and running with help of Chebon at Mytek... almost, i.e., will successfully output PC system audio played back with Windows Media Player.

Then went to setup MC 17.0.182 downloaded the other day using Mytek instructions to set Playback Options > Audio Output > Output Mode to "Wasapi  - Event Style".  What to my wondering eyes should appear but NO Wasapis at all in the Output Mode selection screen...and subsequently no Wasapi Settings.
Selected ASIO and it would output audio but not sure what it was doing.

Thought it might be that I did not have the latest version of MC17.  Found that there is a 17.0.185 with some DSD changes made to 183 or 184 so downloaded 185.  However, still no Wasapi choices in Output Mode selection screen.  Now I have 2 x MC17 on my system but not sure what to do at this point since I DO NOT want to pay for 2 versions.

What am I missing?  Is there a switch that did not get switched?

[ted_b]

Here's what the screens look like with the appropriate (USBPAL and/or firewire) drivers installed

[Bigguy49]

I believe the USBPAL driver was installed correctly...walked thru the process by Chebon at Mytek since I had an issue with properly downloading the zipped file.

But maybe NOT since neither Wasapi setting shows in Audio Output list at all.   

This is definitely a fubar situation...but not the software company!   

[Bigguy49]

As follow up to my previous post, my investigation of Wasapi found that it is NOT supported in Windows XP...only ASIO.  So now need setup instructions for ASIO with XP.

Also, in my exploration of MC17, came across a screen in Output Format called DSP Studio where Output sample rates are selected for inputs ranging from 44.1Hz to 192kHz as well as Bit Depth. 
Are these relevant to audio file playback and, if so, what settings should be selected?

When I first installed MC17.0182, there was a dialog box on the left side for "Building Conversion Code".  I selected YES but not sure I should have done this given the fact that I had no guidance for doing this.  Could not find any reference in the Wiki.
IF I did a bad thing, is there a way to reverse?

[ted_b]

Bigguy49, you should not need ASIO help.  I specifically included ASIO setup for Mytek is in a large screen capture about 6 posts above this one!

Leave DSP alone for now as you get started.  That is for upsampling options, etc.

[Bigguy49]

Using ASIO configured per the screenshots, I DO get sound when playing back "normal", e.g., WAV, etc., files.

However, when I try to play a DSF(DSD) download from Blue Coast, I get a message screen which says:

Output may not be supported by hardware.
You can use "DSP Studio" to change output.
Make sure system has valid sound playback device and it is properly configured.

Currently, all my DSP Studio settings for "Audio Output" are defaulted to "No change" for each of the frequencies listed.

[Bigguy49]

My apologies.  Actually, I missed a line in the popup message:

Addendum: "Playback could not be started on output ASIO using the format '176kHz 24 bit Ch'"
Output may not be supported by hardware.
You can use "DSP Studio" to change output.
Make sure system has valid sound playback device and it is properly configured.

[Bigguy49]

Still need help with pop-up error message encountered (Posts #41 & #42) when trying to playback DSD files using ASIO output selected with WindowsXP.

Is there a fix?