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[rick.ca]

In concept I would like to see the info panel supplemented by a new customizable window or space that can be populated with graphical movie information...

This is a perfect example of the simple, practical suggestion that gets lost in the useless distraction that MC must aspire look more like XBMC. It has been mentioned by several of us several times, yet always gets lost in the debate over that which will never happen. Perhaps it should be discussed as topic on its own by those who prefer to contribute practical suggestions for improvements.

[apgood]

Yes XBMC is prettier, but to be honest the two things I miss most about their 10ft interface is the their menu for changing things like the audio stream and subtitles. MC's right click menu is just way too small and not remote friendly or consistent with the rest of the theater view interface. Realise this is because it is the player, but make for a dismount home theater experience. Even if the current menu's font size was increased 2x or 3x it would make a big difference.

Other thing is their plug in to download subtitles via 10th interface but realise this is a bit of a niche feature and might not be that important to most people.

[MrHaugen]

Yes XBMC is prettier, but to be honest the two things I miss most about their 10ft interface is the their menu for changing things like the audio stream and subtitles. MC's right click menu is just way too small and not remote friendly or consistent with the rest of the theater view interface. Realise this is because it is the player, but make for a dismount home theater experience. Even if the current menu's font size was increased 2x or 3x it would make a big difference.

You have the OSD for that. Use the arrow keys and change Audio streams, Subs etc.

[JimH]

Yes XBMC is prettier, but to be honest the two things I miss most about their 10ft interface is the their menu for changing things like the audio stream and subtitles. MC's right click menu is just way too small and not remote friendly or consistent with the rest of the theater view interface. Realise this is because it is the player, but make for a dismount home theater experience. Even if the current menu's font size was increased 2x or 3x it would make a big difference.

You can switch many things with the OSD (see the wiki) by using a remote or the arrow keys on a keyboard.

You can increase the "Size" of theater view to get the equivalent of larger fonts.

[flac.rules]

This is a perfect example of the simple, practical suggestion that gets lost in the useless distraction that MC must aspire look more like XBMC. It has been mentioned by several of us several times, yet always gets lost in the debate over that which will never happen. Perhaps it should be discussed as topic on its own by those who prefer to contribute practical suggestions for improvements.

People are trying to help, instead of constantly repeating how useless their suggestions are, maybe its better to come with constructive suggestions to how people can pinpoint what they are looking for. I tried to be concrete about what i would like to see, and asked if it already is possible to do. All i got as an answer from you was basically "some can be done, some canot be done", and you repating how useless "XBMC-feedback" is yet another time. It is of course not you repsonsibilty to make my suggestions better, or more to the point (or answer my questions for that matter). But frankly, I don't find your answers very helpful either, if you really want people to give what you percive as better feedback.

[MrHaugen]

I'll try to create a better basis for Theater View Skinning specific suggestions and discussions later on. Instead of discussing wanted skinning functionality mixed in with all other suggestions here. It will probably yield little results...

I was hoping someone with better skinning experience than me would do this, but it does not seem to happen. With some help from the users, and especially the experienced skinners, the result should be ok I think.

[JimH]

Skinning discussion would be more appopriate here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=5.0

xplain started an interesting thread there.

[rick.ca]

People are trying to help, instead of constantly repeating how useless their suggestions are, maybe its better to come with constructive suggestions to how people can pinpoint what they are looking for.

I don't know what I can do that's more straightforward than pointing out a 'perfect example' of the kind of suggestion that has a reasonable chance of being discussed in a productive manner and perhaps implemented. I don't know how to make a skin either, and I'm quite sure I don't want to learn. While I'm confident my answer was accurate—as far as it goes—I agree it doesn't help you get what you want. That's my point. It's pointless raising such questions in a topic like this, especially when the post as a whole appears to be motivated by the desire MC mimic XBMC in appearance. Thus my other suggestion—that matters of skinning be discussed with those who have the ability and willingness to develop skins. Doing so will encourage them and be much more likely identify useful and feasible improvements that might be made to the skinning system.

[flac.rules]

I don't know what I can do that's more straightforward than pointing out a 'perfect example' of the kind of suggestion that has a reasonable chance of being discussed in a productive manner and perhaps implemented. I don't know how to make a skin either, and I'm quite sure I don't want to learn. While I'm confident my answer was accurate—as far as it goes—I agree it doesn't help you get what you want. That's my point. It's pointless raising such questions in a topic like this, especially when the post as a whole appears to be motivated by the desire MC mimic XBMC in appearance. Thus my other suggestion—that matters of skinning be discussed with those who have the ability and willingness to develop skins. Doing so will encourage them and be much more likely identify useful and feasible improvements that might be made to the skinning system.

Well, it has been pointed out that people should be more specific. Which is a valid thing to point out. I posted a concrete look i liked. And after a little while (and earlier in the thread), it has been pointed out that Theatre View is customizable. I asked the questions precisely because I do not now much about skinning. To be as precise as possible, it helps quite a lot to know what is "missing", that is what can't be done today. A person with knowledge in skinning probably will do a better job, but I do my best, and I think also my feedback can be useful in combination with an answer about what can and can't be done today, because then i can also have direct and concrete suggestions on what elements should be changeable and how.

Whatever kind of look i personally like best, be it mimicking XBMC or otherwise is pretty irrelevant in my opinion, the point is making a skinning system which is able to implment thees kind of things, not the exact look.

[apgood]

Thanks. I've been trying to find a shortcut key or similar for ages.  Have been using the left & right arrow keys to skip forward and back for ages but didn't realise up and down did anything.

[Daydream]

has a reasonable chance of being discussed in a productive manner and perhaps implemented.

That's the thing. I don't see it as a productive manner.

I say "build a new skinning engine". "Not doable" others say.

Then I could come in with a list of 1500 small changes that would be the base of a (new) skinning engine. Either 5 of 1500 will be implemented and that will count just as much as a sneeze against the wind, or 1300 of 1500 will be implemented and that would equate to building a new skinning engine anyway.

But this is not about that. A new skinning engine will not be build because it's not financial viable. The rest - creative control, design, ideas, blabla - it's all fluff talk. If JRiver would know for sure that they will double their business by building a new skinning engine they would probably started working on it months ago. But there is no such guarantee. I can't fault JRiver for this. Their product, their call. But I can write 3 pages why that rubs me the wrong way.
 

[rick.ca]

But I can write 3 pages why that rubs me the wrong way.

But you already have. At least I think you have. It sure seemed like 3 pages...

If only a new skinning engine will do, then maybe the idea should be abandoned entirely. Everyone's time would be better spent identifying things JRiver (rather than skinners) might do to make the existing Theatre View more visually attractive.

[pcstockton]

Elvis133 said:

"I asked the questions precisely because I do not now much about skinning. To be as precise as possible, it helps quite a lot to know what is "missing", that is what can't be done today."

it sounds like you, and the vocal minority, dont know how and dont know what, but definitely want something different going on in Theater View.  

Seeing that you dont even know what will and wont work with the current build, why not create unique individual threads asking if something is possible, or desirable from the global perspective.

You may find that some requests are impossible.  Some may be only applicable to you and obviously not worth pursuing globally.  Some may be possible and the experts will tell you how to achieve it on your own.

Yet other ideas may get a response from a ton of people.  Matt and Jim may come in to your thread and say "YES!  Great idea.  Coming in the next build".  

So rather than simply posting screenshots of XBMC, why not take the time to ask ONE specific question like "Is it possible for me to move the rollers to the bottom or middle of the screen?"

These type of requests, over time, will help you determine what can and cant be done, how to implement them yourself, and how to extrapolate what you learn to other aspects of the views you want to customize.

I think this is what Jim and Rick and others are talking about.  These threads are far too general, and any specfic questions or suggestions get lost in the shuffle.

Cheers,
Patrick

[JimH]

A new skinning engine will not be build because it's not financial viable. The rest - creative control, design, ideas, blabla - it's all fluff talk. If JRiver would know for sure that they will double their business by building a new skinning engine they would probably started working on it months ago.

I wish that other people would not try to speak for JRiver.

This is an area that we will work on again, but now it is not at or near the top of the list.

Here's my list:

1.  Mac and/or Linux versions

2.  Cablecard support

3.  Rock solid performance.  DLNA, Video Conversion, Cover Art, etc.  Details details details.

When we think that Theater View is the weakest link in the chain, we will return to it.  At the moment, I'm not convinced that it's weak at all.

[JimH]

I think this is what Jim and Rick and others are talking about.  These threads are far too general, and any specfic questions or suggestions get lost in the shuffle.

Far too general is correct.  And often far too wordy.  The good ideas are buried.

[preproman]

1.  Mac and/or Linux versions

Would this Linux version be a port for something like   "unRAID"  +100 on this if it is..

[JimH]

I don't know anything about unRaid, but it would be MC, running on Linux.  It would have a limited feature set in the beginning.

[glynor]

1.  Mac and/or Linux versions

 

Oh yeah, and Cablecard support would be awesome if you can pull it off.  That's a pain though...

[imugli]

I don't know anything about unRaid, but it would be MC, running on Linux.  It would have a limited feature set in the beginning.

WOOHOO!!!

[flac.rules]

Elvis133 said:
it sounds like you, and the vocal minority, dont know how and dont know what, but definitely want something different going on in Theater View.  

Seeing that you dont even know what will and wont work with the current build, why not create unique individual threads asking if something is possible, or desirable from the global perspective.

You may find that some requests are impossible.  Some may be only applicable to you and obviously not worth pursuing globally.  Some may be possible and the experts will tell you how to achieve it on your own.

Yet other ideas may get a response from a ton of people.  Matt and Jim may come in to your thread and say "YES!  Great idea.  Coming in the next build".  

So rather than simply posting screenshots of XBMC, why not take the time to ask ONE specific question like "Is it possible for me to move the rollers to the bottom or middle of the screen?"

These type of requests, over time, will help you determine what can and cant be done, how to implement them yourself, and how to extrapolate what you learn to other aspects of the views you want to customize.

I think this is what Jim and Rick and others are talking about.  These threads are far too general, and any specfic questions or suggestions get lost in the shuffle.

Cheers,
Patrick

I have never posted a screenshot from XBMC. And I know what I would like to be different in JRMCs Theatre View, but I do not always know how to do it. Thats is why I am trying to be as concrete as possible, and make a point list of exactly what I feel is needed, and asking if this can be done today. And if not, what can be done to make it possbile.

But so far, my try to be specific, adress one point at the time and learn hasn't been answered by anyone (not even a single one of the questions) . Not by any user, not by any staff. So this far, the advice to be less genereal hasn't payed of.

[apgood]

Linux support would be great!! Even if it is just a sort of headless backend for the database and scraping engine. Though I imagine there are plenty of people that would be interested in the recording and transcoding. On the unraid side of things would not be surprised if someone ports it much like they did the plex server and air video server.

[JimH]

But so far, my try to be specific, adress one point at the time and learn hasn't been answered by anyone (not even a single one of the questions) . Not by any user, not by any staff. So this far, the advice to be less genereal hasn't payed of.

I've read most if not all of the posts here.  Did you read mine?

There are thousands of you out there.  There are only a handful of us.  We can't answer all of the posts.

[Scolex]

When we think that Theater View is the weakest link in the chain, we will return to it.  At the moment, I'm not convinced that it's weak at all.

While I don't think Theater View is weak I do think it is the weakest part and has the most potential for improvement.

I have to say though that all of the talk about this or that looking better/worse is growing tired quickly and I feel it has become counter productive. All that has been proven is that there
is no way to make everyone come to an agreement on how things should look.
This causes a developer to think to himself or at least it would me:
"Well if I make a change a percentage of the people aren't going to like it and if I don't I risk alienating the people asking.
I am not a mind reader so I don't know what percentage so what is the point of putting in the effort when it could be detrimental."

My thought is take all of the parameters that control the look of Theater View that are a part of the base program and stick them in a text based resource file. With such a resource file a simple
configuration exe could be written that would write to the file and people could make changes in a GUI instead of editing a text file. Many people have a fear of code but when it is a simple text box
or drop down menu they are comfortable. This could spawn some great skins quickly due to it's simplified nature and the additional options. I know I personally got frustrated when creating a skin
because I felt very limited on what I could change or add. I have even considered creating an elaborate WebGizmo skin as a replacement for Theater View as I feel like I could create something more
to my liking.

[flac.rules]

I've read most if not all of the posts here.  Did you read mine?

There are thousands of you out there.  There are only a handful of us.  We can't answer all of the posts.

Yeah, i have read all your posts in the topic, (but i haven't seen anything adressing my post with my question, did i miss something, since you ask?)

I fully understand that you cannot be expected to answer every post. And you can yourself choose what you want to answer or not, I am not saying the lack of answer is your repsonsibilty. Nevertheless, from my perspective, the fact is that i have tried to follow the advice to be concrete and spilt things up into managable pieces, but it has not work very well so far.

[JimH]

I'm going to close this thread now.  We'll revisit the subject when we're ready to work on Theater View again.