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[Drewligarchy]

Hi All -

Interesting problem with 5 Channel Flac such as Pink Floyd's DSOTM.

In MC's output section, I have channel output set to same as source file using WASAPI - Event Style. I have no problem playing my 6 Channel Flac's which I've ripped from my DVD-A's. While DSOTM does work if I set this to 5.1 in channel output, I don't want to have all of my files sent in this format, as I have a Meridian Processor that has some specifc DSPs specifically for two channel that I want to utilize.

My DVD-A plays fine through my DVD-A player, so I know it's not an issue with my processor. More likely a combination of sound card (Just and AMD 6000 series graphics card via HDMI) and/or J River - though more likely my soundcard as it doesn't work in Foobar either via WASAPI.

This isn't really a huge issues because most multi-channel flacs will be in 5.1, however DSOTM is a great surround album. Can this be fixed via a setting in J River, or is it possible to convert the 5 channel file to 6 channel - without a significant loss in quality?

Thank you for your help.

Andrew

[Matt]

I recommend outputting a consistent number of channels using DSP Studio > Output Format > Channels (preferably the number of actual speakers you have).  You're bumping into an example of why this is a good practice -- most computer audio hardware doesn't support 5 channel output.

You can use 'No upmixing or downmixing' instead of 'JRSS mixing' if you don't want upmixing.

[dean70]

If this is the DSOM I am thinking of, it is in 4.1 format which isnt supported by the FLAC format. I was able to edit the FLAC file in Auacity to insert a silent channel for the centre which corrects the channel misalignment.

See here for channel ordering: http://flac.sourceforge.net/format.html

[JustinChase]

I can't see anywhere in Audacity where i can tell which track goes to which channel.  meaning, i can't tell where to put the new/blank channel to make sure it goes to the center.  Am i missing it, or do I just need to test?

[dean70]

This is the order in FLAC file:
◦6 channels:
left
right
center
LFE
back/surround left
back/surround right

so it would need to be the 3rd track from the top in Audacity. Create new track, select add silence (verify the total length first) and move the new track up to the 3rd spot. Save the FLAC file (there will be a dialog for channel mappings - use a 1:1 mapping, eg: 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-5, 6-6, etc

ps: Dont forget to make a backup of the original FLAC file first.

[Drewligarchy]

Dean -

Thanks for your help on this.

I've done everything you've said, however I am having some funny stuff happen with the channel order.

I've inserted a silent center channel in track 3 and used 1:1 mappings. It sounds like some of my rears are swapping with the fronts - though the center channel is silent as it should be. This is based on my memory playing it through my DVD-A player

Do you know the order of channels in the 4.1 mix, so I can doublecheck mine, and remap if necessary?

Thanks,
Andrew

[JustinChase]

I'm not home to check my work, but I did some searching on this before dean70 responded, and I think I found that flac wants the channels in a different order than what dean70 said.

I can't remember, but the LFE channel should be last, and the center should be just above that in Audacity.  The LFE is currently the middle (3rd) channel in the 4.1 file you probably have.  Move that to the bottom, add a blank mono channel just above it, and change the options of the program to output as discrete channels (default is to combine everything into one channel).

I did this to one track, but have not had time to test it yet, which is why I haven't responded.

I think the channel order should be FR FL SR SL C LFE.  I might have the surrounds backwards, but if you do as I described, it will match the layout that I found online for flac files.

I'll report back once I've had a chance to check my work at home.

[Drewligarchy]

Cool, thanks Justin!

I will try the same when I get out of the office, and post if I am succesful.

[dean70]

Dean -

Thanks for your help on this.

I've done everything you've said, however I am having some funny stuff happen with the channel order.

I've inserted a silent center channel in track 3 and used 1:1 mappings. It sounds like some of my rears are swapping with the fronts - though the center channel is silent as it should be. This is based on my memory playing it through my DVD-A player

Do you know the order of channels in the 4.1 mix, so I can doublecheck mine, and remap if necessary?

Thanks,
Andrew

what instruments are you getting through the rears? I have found most of the percussion is from the fronts with piano/sax playing though the rears. I have verified with stereo headphones on a pc - you hear the drums, but the sax and piano disappears from the sound stage.

[Drewligarchy]

Dean / Justin -

Finally figured it out. Dean: you were correct to begin with, apologies. My front left speaker had it's gain jacked up for some reason which led me to believe the mix was wrong. I can confirm your channel order is working for me.

Justin: I read in another forum how someone got it to work your way as well, however, it was a bug in a different media player that allowed that incorrect channel order to play correctly. For me, with Dean's order everything is playing correctly with MC and I am AB'ing with my DVD-A player to confirm.

It would be fantastic if there was just one standard channel order for everything as I now have a headache and can't even listen to my correctly rendered files from all of this re-ordering

Nonetheless I appreciate both of your help very much, as it finally got me to where I need to be!

Best,
Andrew

[dean70]

Found a new (better) way to extract the mlp track off DVD-A - use the Foobar2000 plugin to read DVD-A ISOs and then can be converted to AIFF format. Found the quality to be improved over FLAC. DSP processing can be inserted into the conversion process just need to find the right method to remove the background hiss (15kHz up at -78db)