Topic: Suggested Blu Ray Ripping & Formats? (Read 8190 times)

nwboater · « **on:** August 29, 2011, 11:26:58 pm »

Now that I have a graphics card that can handle RO HQ I'm finally ready to try using Blu Rays. I am confused after reading of different formats and containers for storing Blu Ray rips and am not sure what may now be the best to use with MC16. I have AnyDVD HD. I also would like to be able to watch everything that's on the disc if possible - my wife likes a lot of the extra features. And finally we would like to get the best possible audio. We have 5.1 from our Asus Essence sound card straight to power amps, so no bit-streaming or HDMI to deal with.

Any suggestions would sure be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rod

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2011, 04:35:13 am »

My preference is to rip the Blu-ray to the m2ts format (m2ts is the native format of BD so everything can read/play it) using Clown_BD (free at SlySoft forum under the High Definition Software section) but I only rip the main movie (no extras). I don't want all the garbage that is attached to the movie (called extras) - I just want to hit the play button and start watching the movie.
If you want to keep all the extras and menus you can rip to Blu-ray Folder structure or ISO. I think iso is probably easier but then you will need a program to "mount" the iso (it then plays teh iso as if you inserted a physical disk). You can use the program Vitual Clone Drive (also free from SlySoft). This may require some addtional setup in MC to get it to work. I don't use ISO so I don't know the specific setup steps. That leaves BD Folder Structure method. This is supported by MC too, but again since I don't use this method, you will need to wait for someone else to jump in regarding the ease of use. Clown_BD will rip to any of the formats described above and you can select the Audio formats you want (everything as is, AC3, etc.).

jmone · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2011, 04:49:03 am »

My current suggestion is to use AnyDVDHD's "Rip DVD Video to HDD". This will create a full copy of the unencrypted disc stucture to your HDD at which point you can import it into MC. MC will now play the "main" playlist. While there is no menu support, you can also optionally also import various playlists (MPLS) for additional extras (a bit of mucking about is involved with this http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64795.0 ).

nwboater · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2011, 08:12:32 am »

CountryBumkin & Jmone,

Thanks very much for all your explanations. Wow, it's sure a lot more complicated than DVDs! Especially when we want the Extras.

I neglected to mention that I have MyMovies and use it for DVDs. Might that affect how I deal with Blu Rays?

Jmone, is your method the one that CB refers to as the "BD Folder Structure method"?

I would also like to future proof my method as much as possible re what we think JRiver and related developers may be working on to simplify and improve this process.

Any more comments or suggestions would be quite welcome.

Thanks,
Rod

mojave · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:14:01 am »

Quote from: nwboater on August 30, 2011, 08:12:32 am

I would also like to future proof my method as much as possible re what we think JRiver and related developers may be working on to simplify and improve this process.

I would think using jmone's process and keeping the original disc structure is the most future proof.

JustinChase · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:12:21 am »

Quote from: mojave on August 30, 2011, 09:14:01 am

I would think using jmone's process and keeping the original disc structure is the most future proof.

I agree, this offers the most "future-proof" option, but isn't quite as simple as just ripping the main title with MakeMKV (or Clown or whatever else).

I have been ripping to MKV, and like the convenience of just having one file for the movie, and I can keep the extras as individual files if I want, but I usually watch extras once, then delete them, as I never care to watch them again, so this is easier for me to keep storage requirements down; albiet with negligible space savings. (how many times to you really want to hear what the director thinks about his film?)

I think if you feel you may want to see the extras more than the one time, and/or you wish to keep multiple versions of a film (i.e. directors and/or regular and/or alternate ending), the disc structure is best, since you only need to keep the "changed" parts of the movie, not all of each version; including all the parts that are exactly the same amongst all versions.

I just decided to pick the version I want and not keep all the rest; so I'm still using MKV files.

for what it's worth

nwboater · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2011, 02:07:07 pm »

Thanks Mojave & JustinChase - It is seeming like perhaps my best way to get started would be to use Jmone's method and rip the entire disc structure. I would at least have everything. Later if we find we don't use the Extras much I could switch to the MKV method.

Thanks again for everyone's ideas.

Rod

JustinChase · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:40:38 pm »

Quote from: nwboater on August 30, 2011, 02:07:07 pm

... It is seeming like perhaps my best way to get started would be to use Jmone's method and rip the entire disc structure...

I agree. I also think it's possible to use MakeMKV on this structure later to convert to MKV from there, which will likely be faster than re-ripping from the disc. You also keep all of your options open by starting off this way, IMHO

nwboater · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2012, 04:29:59 pm »

I'm about to rip some more Blu Rays and am wondering if there may now be some better ways than those discussed in this old thread? Do those of you that posted here still do it the same way? Any others with different approaches?

I guess one of the biggest problems with Blu Ray rips is getting access to all the content on the disc and having menus. In our case my wife likes a lot of the extra ~~junk~~, er, stuff. I really want to watch them with JRiver and not some other player. Is jmone's approach with importing playlists still the best for this?

Thanks for any ideas or updates.

Rod

jmone · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2012, 05:09:16 pm »

Things have changed a bit. If something like AnyDVD HD is running in the background you can use MC to rip a BD to disc as a full structure. It will import into your library this disc and by default try to play the main title. You can then choose to play other titles OR by using paticles you can create a seperate library entry for each title. Once created, you can delete the dud ones and rename etc the ones you want to keep

eddyshere · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2012, 05:19:23 pm »

If WAF (Woman acceptance factor) relies on full menu support (extras etc...) and you come from MM then you have no other choice :

If your files are local : store in iso or bdav and then use an external player (today still only way to have full menu support) because it will be a nightmare and really cumbersome to tag all separate chapters and titles (even worse if it's a TV-serie BD or a concert BD)
if you intend to use MC as a server and another HTPC (MC) as renderer then the iso format will not work in a MC remote library environment and bdmv is the only way to go.

So bdmv is your best bet. Also coming from MM I just converted all my BD iso's to bdmv.

jmone · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2012, 06:00:48 pm »

I use particles just fine on TV eps BD rips even with meta data lookups.
It is more of a PITA to tage up chpters (eg making a song list on music BD)

nwboater · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2012, 07:33:02 pm »

Quote from: jmone on July 22, 2012, 05:09:16 pm

Things have changed a bit. If something like AnyDVD HD is running in the background you can use MC to rip a BD to disc as a full structure. It will import into your library this disc and by default try to play the main title. You can then choose to play other titles OR by using paticles you can create a seperate library entry for each title. Once created, you can delete the dud ones and rename etc the ones you want to keep

Thanks for the update. I need to pry MC from my Wife to do some experimenting - not yet sure when that will happen.

You say to "use MC to rip a BD to disc as a full structure". I don't see any options for this, so assume that now just happens with any BD rip. Correct?

You say "You can then choose to play other titles". Is this possible in Theater View or only Standard View? I assume that by using Particles that each one will show as a separate listing in Theater View. Correct?

Quote from: jmone on July 22, 2012, 06:00:48 pm

I use particles just fine on TV eps BD rips even with meta data lookups.
It is more of a PITA to tage up chpters (eg making a song list on music BD)

What is "TV eps BD rips"?

Glad to know that Particles is working fine for you. Thought I had read of some people having difficulties.

Thanks again for your suggestions jmone.

Quote from: eddyshere on July 22, 2012, 05:19:23 pm

If WAF (Woman acceptance factor) relies on full menu support (extras etc...) and you come from MM then you have no other choice :

If your files are local : store in iso or bdav and then use an external player (today still only way to have full menu support) because it will be a nightmare and really cumbersome to tag all separate chapters and titles (even worse if it's a TV-serie BD or a concert BD)
if you intend to use MC as a server and another HTPC (MC) as renderer then the iso format will not work in a MC remote library environment and bdmv is the only way to go.

So bdmv is your best bet. Also coming from MM I just converted all my BD iso's to bdmv.

Thanks for your suggestions. Not sure what "MM" is. Microsoft Media Center perhaps?

At this point we are only using video files locally. That could change someday. I definitely don't want to use an external player - Too happy with ROHQ and need all the good audio stuff, DSP etc in MC.

I need to confirm, but I think that MC rips BDs to BDMV natively.

Rod

jmone · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2012, 01:22:23 am »

Hi Rod,
I'm traveling so posting this from memory.

- MC can rip an unencrypted disc structure to the HDD, import then tag like a single video file
- MC will pick the most appropriate playlist for playback but you can then change this to other playlists (eg with a right click or in TheaterView use the down arrow --> playlist etc). The playlists are files in the BD disc structure that order what bits are played and are typically used for TV Eps, Extras, Alternative Ending etc
- You can create a "Particle" (and additional library entry) for each of these playlists then remove the one you don't want, name the appropriately etc. For example I have an original of "I am Legend" and one call "I am Legend - Alternaive Ending". TV Eps Discs also tend to have a Title for each of the episodes so I also use this feature for them. You then just pick the one you want to playback from your library and the correct playlist is used. To create these particles, select the recently imported BD --> Right Click -->Stacks --> Advanced --> Auto Create BD/DVD Title Particles.

Thank

BartMan01 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2012, 06:12:56 pm »

Even with 'hard drives are cheap', Blu Rays are HUGE and many have a lot of extra 'junk' on them. Personally I copy the main movie to MKV with only the English language tracks and subtitles included unless there are multiple versions of the movie on the disk and version 1 + version 2 is less space than the full disk (sometimes they don't use seamless branching and actually put two copies of the movie on the disk). If there are special features that I will watch more than once, or just want available, I usually put each in it's own MKV.

I also keep full ISO copies of HDDVDs as backup in case either the disc breaks or my one drive that can read them breaks. Using one of these as an example, full iso = 23.4GB while MKV = 18.4GB. That is 5GB of non-movie and/or foreign language stuff that I will almost never use on just one disk.

Benefits of using MKV:
Better support for playback on a variety of devices.
Easy to drop in to HandBrake to create an iPad copy for the road.

jmone · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2012, 02:30:27 am »

Sure, all valid points but Rod was after keeping the extras

BartMan01 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2012, 12:27:42 pm »

Quote from: jmone on July 25, 2012, 02:30:27 am

Sure, all valid points but Rod was after keeping the extras

I keep the extras that I want in their own MKV's. Even just stripping out the fluff (menu videos, foreign languages, etc.) can save significant space. One big consideration is that on Blu Ray many of the special features require the full java menuing/control system to work. If that is what you are after, keeping the full disk structure is the only way to make that work and will require a full featured Blu Ray player program for play back.

JustinChase · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2012, 12:50:34 pm »

Quote from: BartMan01 on July 25, 2012, 12:27:42 pm

I keep the extras that I want in their own MKV's.

I do this also. Most of them are 'watch once' type things, which I eventually delete, but some I keep 'long term'. After you remove the extra audio tracks, and the trailers and other 'junk' it does save a lot of space.

Not saying this the 'best' way, just that it works good for me

mojave · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2012, 01:14:50 pm »

I rip the entire disc with JRiver for quickness and convenience. When I decide what I actually want to keep I use MakeMKV and open the already ripped Blu-ray from the hard drive. Usually I just keep the main movie. Most of mine are still in the Blu-ray structure, though, just because I still have plenty of disc space.

The main title isn't always the right one, either. For example, on the recently released Wrath of the Titans the first title (00200.mpls) in JRiver is the one with director commentaries. The 2nd title (00100.mpls) is the correct one. If I had just ripped with MakeMKV first I probably would have gotten the wrong title.

eddyshere · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2012, 04:41:30 pm »

@nwboater : MM was for my movies (software).

I think it's misleading saying rip with full BD structure as the playback will be the problem (java/full menu). only the external player will provide handy navigation of this full structure. I understand the happy mkv'ers regarding movies saying I keep the main movie and strip unused languages and subtitles and extras. (Actually I'm always puzzled by people having 400 movies on their server). Don't get me wrong but I understand storing animations (kids watching the same thing all over) or classics but who will watch cat women for example 40 times?

. My server holds TV-series and a lot of concerts (BD-DVD) and for concerts the external player solution is the most convenient i could get. And honestly as the external player is only needed for BD It would be unfair to say that (in this case) TMT5 is sooooo much worse quality than RedOctHQ. It's unfortunate but it's the trade-off for full menu support.

jmone · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2012, 09:21:21 pm »

Yeah, I too leave my 00's of BD discs as physical discs. The only ones I rip onto the NW are frequently used items, TV eps, Music discs etc that I then use particles to break up and tag correctly. We just don't watch the frequence of the movie discs enough for me to bother ripping them all. That said I would like to use MC to support the tracking and taging of these physical discs but that is in another thread......

glynor · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2012, 07:04:03 am »

Quote from: BartMan01 on July 24, 2012, 06:12:56 pm

Even with 'hard drives are cheap', Blu Rays are HUGE and many have a lot of extra 'junk' on them. Personally I copy the main movie to MKV with only the English language tracks and subtitles included unless there are multiple versions of the movie on the disk and version 1 + version 2 is less space than the full disk (sometimes they don't use seamless branching and actually put two copies of the movie on the disk). If there are special features that I will watch more than once, or just want available, I usually put each in it's own MKV.

I also keep full ISO copies of HDDVDs as backup in case either the disc breaks or my one drive that can read them breaks. Using one of these as an example, full iso = 23.4GB while MKV = 18.4GB. That is 5GB of non-movie and/or foreign language stuff that I will almost never use on just one disk.

Benefits of using MKV:
Better support for playback on a variety of devices.
Easy to drop in to HandBrake to create an iPad copy for the road.

For the record, I agree with this completely (except I don't bother to back up to ISO either).

I also keep the handful of extras that I actually want in their own separate MKV files. Most of them are junk.

I could not possibly care less about losing the menus on the BluRay discs. To me, avoiding the menu crap is one of the reasons that I rip them. I also have zero interest in storing a bunch of optical discs on the wall. I don't keep all of my movies "online" all the time, but storing one 1.5TB drive on a shelf with hundreds of movies is a heck of a lot more convenient than storing 300 discs and then finding the one I want to use.

To each their own. That's just my way.

nwboater · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2012, 08:59:59 am »

It's going to be this weekend before I get any time to really get into all this. But I want to thank everyone who has posted here for your ideas and explaining how you do things. It's becoming a good discussion!

Rod

nwboater · « **Reply #23 on:** July 29, 2012, 06:16:39 pm »

Finally got some time to work with this. Have spent a lot of time with the BD To Kill A Mockingbird. I ripped it with MC in BDMV format. Per jmones suggestion I did the Auto Create Title Particles. I now have what is supposed to be the Main Movie but is not, and 61 Titles.

I did not try to play the Main Movie before creating the Particles so it was probably originally wrong. As mojave said MC does not always pick the right one. BTW can that selection be changed?

I have started going through the 61 particles. The first few consist of the Main Movie, a version with audio by the producer, and a few other main extras. These I have changed the Name on so they can be easily selectable in Theater View. From about Title 6 on all the titles consist of small portions of a few different extras segments. And the odd thing is that the titles are not in a sequence that flows with the segments. Therefore you can't just watch a bunch of titles in a row because you will see portions of different segments intermingled.

Another problem with almost all of the Titles after about six is that after hitting Watch (in Theater View) nothing happens. The only way we have found to make them play is to hit FF. They immediately start then. Odd!

So this system as a Menu is only useful for the Main Movie and a few of the Extras. For everything in about Title 6 on it's useless. This I guess jives with what some of you mentioned here about needing a full Menu program to be able to select everything in some BDs

We definitely don't want to use an external program for BDs. As I mentioned earlier we need the JRiver DSP and would hate to give up the video quality of ROHQ.

So I guess we are in the same boat as many of you that wish somehow JRiver could create a Menu system for Blue Rays. Since BDs are replacing DVDs this seems like a big hole in the usability of the sytem.

Thanks again for everyone's contributions here.

Rod

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Author Topic: Suggested Blu Ray Ripping & Formats? (Read 8190 times)