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[elpaolo]

As many others have surely tried, I'm trying to customize MC's interface to resemble the spaciousness and relative minimalism afforded by iTunes (though sans the horribly slow backend database...on a PC anyway). I've come pretty close, though a couple questions linger, and I'd certainly appreciate any and all help. I'm sure these iTunes-oriented questions are annoying, given that they're a competitor, but I'm going to ask anyway, since I feel like their GUI gets a lot right, even if much else is to be lamented.

To wit:

(a) Is there any way to group by album but NOT display the album title text that appears atop the album? Perhaps even with keeping the somewhat darker dividing line? That, or readjusting the size of that text would be ideal, too. In both cases, it'd save vertical space, allowing more tracks to be visible on screen. Maybe I'm just missing the menu option here, but I can't seem to track down how to fix it.

One that note, is there any way to achieve the "album by artist"-style column iTunes uses, perhaps with the Expression Editor? This includes both the album (bolded) and artist info (and rating, too, but I'm less interested in that). It's a compact way of displaying album info that overlaps with the vertical space taken up by the tracks themselves as opposed to adding more on its own, as the current interface does. Again, the interest here is viewing as many tracks as possible onscreen.

(b) Is there any way to remove the black bar atop the track listing window? This is the one with the back/forward buttons and the dropdowns for changing the view. Since I don't use this bar at all, it'd be nice to be able to reclaim that space and reduce the clutter on the screen.

(c) Would you consider moving the volume bar to the right of the play buttons to reduce the footprint of the top-most bar? Again, that'd save vertical space.

Apologies if I missed answers to these in the forums, but my searching skills were unable to turn up anything I needed.

Thanks for your help, and thanks for continuing to improve MC.

P

[rick.ca]

iTunes...Sheesh!

The first screen shot is my preferred audio view. It's no doubt 'worse' than what you're looking for, but it illustrates a few things...

• A Panes View makes it very quick and easy to select whatever tracks you may want to view. While there's less room for a track list, the panes remain available for quickly selecting any particular artist or album, or any list I'm comfortable scrolling through. The alternative of using all the space to list 50 tracks at a time doesn't help much if there are 10,000 tracks in the library.
  
  
• You can group by whatever you like, and the grouping caption will display the value for each group. I've grouped by an expression field that displays [Album Artist (auto)] • [Year Released] • [Album] • [Album Rating (stars)]

The second screen shot is the same view...

• in fullscreen 'Cover View' mode;
• with no grouping; and
• the top pane collapsed.

I don't know why you would need to see so many tracks at once. But if you want to, you can. And the panes are still available for making selections, if required. I suppose you would consider my many columns clutter, but I like having lot's of information available. The point here is those too can be whatever you want them to be.

So how does iTune's Panes View compare to this?

[elpaolo]

Thanks much for the response, rick.ca. As you pointed out, MC is obviously very flexible with views, and the panes feature affords much of that flexibility. The grouping options, too, are handy, if also at times more than I want to tinker with. Still, the interface issues I noted are part of the reason I switched to iTunes years ago after a number of years with MJ/MC. Now, because my library is so large and MC is so great and larger libraries, I'm trying to switch back. I use it only for audio, so I'm desperately trying to strip away all the video and image handling features, useful as they may be for other users--I simply don't use them, though.

Anyhow, for searching, I always use the search box in the upper right-hand corner, both in MC and iTunes. Nested menus have no appeal to me, so that's not an option. I want one search box and one big list.

The large list view you pointed out is one I've been able to achieve with little fuss, but it leaves me unsatisifed because of a lack of grouping and the entirely small album art thumbnails. Plus, going fullscreen eliminates my all-important playlists from view.

I've attached an image of my view in iTunes to help illustrate what I was getting at in my original post. I have a feeling some clever Expression Editor coding could achieve this, but I haven't been able to make sense of the functions. For example, if MC is able to show just ONE album thumb when albums are grouped, shouldn't it also be able to display just ONE album or artist name, as in the example? (And is there a way to start a new line in the editor, or is that impossible?)

Also, a further note on the attached image--in MC, I'd lose something like 10 viewable tracks in the view I have in the example, solely because of the additional album title header. Given that I can see about 50 tracks when not split up like that, that's about a 20% loss of information, which to me is pretty significant (and why I'm mentioning it here).

Despite all the things I've tried to speed up iTunes, I've grown tired of waiting 60 seconds to add just a handful of files--MC is so much better in that regard (and in watching folders and handling smartlists tied to directories). I want to make this work...but the interface is just as important to me.

Thanks again for the reply.

[vagskal]

There is no way to remove the group headings when grouping is active. You could try a smaller font (or a larger screen, of course).

There is no way to hide the column headings in lists (if those are the black bar you are referring to). Edit: I now understand that you were referring to the tab/menu link area. It is not possible to remove that area either.

With the exception of image file (large thumbnail) all fields in a file list are displayed on a single line.

Looking like iTunes has not been a design goal for MC as far as I can tell. Sorry.

[elpaolo]

There's a font option for the group heading? The only font option I can find is the one for the file listing (which also seems to control the tree on the left). Can you point me to this option, please?

Also, I'm not looking for apologies, nor do I think MC should have iTunes as a design goal. I'm simply pointing out some screen usage issues as a matter of interface tweaking, and iTunes is my example to make my points. Like many in this forum, I've used probably 5-6 different media managers over the last decade, and they all have their pluses and minuses--I'm trying to get as many of the best features rolled into one, and interface issues are the last point for me to iron out in switching back to MC. I figured (and still hope) someone here might know how to achieve the view I've been seeking. My years of experience using MC and MJ haven't yielded the look and feel I want, and I've been out of the MC game since version 14 or so.

I wonder if enabling / disabling group headings (or the text) could be an feature for MC 18?

Thanks for your response.

[elpaolo]

A number of other managers aside from iTunes allow for album grouping without the header MC has. I've attached a screenshot of MediaMonkey's approach using the "Summary" column to display artist and album info. This would be a great option for MC and an alternative view to the heading, if it's not already achievable with Expressions.

[vagskal]

There's a font option for the group heading?

No. I only meant that with a smaller font you would see more files on one screen.

Edit: I do not know if it is possible to change the group heading font through skinning. I have never done that.

[elpaolo]

Ah, right. It's already set at 8 point.

[rjm]

I run iTunes in parallel with MC and use iTunes mainly for getting movies and ebooks onto my iPad. But I also imported my MC music collection into iTunes just to see how it works with large libraries.

I agree that iTunes has a certain simple elegance to its UI and I think MC could and should steal a few of the better ideas from iTunes. In particular I like the full height panes on the left.

[Fabricio]

In particular I like the full height panes on the left.

I hope so long.

[rick.ca]

I've attached a screenshot of MediaMonkey's approach using the "Summary" column to display artist and album info. This would be a great option for MC and an alternative view to the heading, if it's not already achievable with Expressions.

That would be a nice feature, but it's not the sort of thing likely to added anytime soon. It's quite a departure from how the file list currently works. You could add an expression column that will appear as tooltip on hover—see the first screen shot.

The second screen shot illustrates a few more things to consider...

• A 'Drop-down' Panes View shows the pane selections and allows each pane to be searched (from the drop-down) while minimizing space. The screen shot shows a selection of Canadian Rock albums with tracks rated 5-stars.
  
  
• A 'Cover View' can pack a lot of information—with informative captions (and note each element of these are colour-coded). The caption shows the number and total duration of the tracks meeting the criteria. Tooltips show the track details.

I think you'll do much better discovering and adapting to what MC can already do rather than holding out for features that mimic those of iTunes. If you do, it won't be long before you'll look at iTunes and ask, "Why would I want to do that?"

[AoXoMoXoA]

There is the matter that most computers now use wide-screen formats which add horizontal real estate while minimizing vertical. Few interfaces seem to have been modified in response to this change in screen geometry.

Might a more horizontal layout (like having the play controls run up the side rather than across the top) make better use of available real estate?

[rjm]

There is the matter that most computers now use wide-screen formats which add horizontal real estate while minimizing vertical. Few interfaces seem to have been modified in response to this change in screen geometry.

Yes. I like having my panes on the left but I find MC's method of stacking them in one column is very cramped. I think we should take advantage of wide screens and allow multiple full height panes on the left.

[elpaolo]

Lots of great thoughts on the interface here--thanks for chiming in.

I imagine it's incredibly annoying to Jim and the developers to hear anything even resembling "please be more like iTunes" talk, but I think the larger interface discussion here has some merit and, I would hope, is worthy of consideration for future versions, even if not in v. 18.

And obviously, I'll still hope that someone figures out how to achieve the views mentioned above.

For now, though, I'm definitely enjoying my MC 17 experience from the advanced tagging to the effortless large library handling...not to mention the added bonus of JRemote!

P

[AoXoMoXoA]

• A 'Cover View' can pack a lot of information—with informative captions (and note each element of these are colour-coded). The caption shows the number and total duration of the tracks meeting the criteria. Tooltips show the track details.

OK I give up . . . . how did you get them color coded?

[MrC]

Embed HTML font color into the Caption or Thumbnail text.

   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68832.0

[AoXoMoXoA]

thanks MrC, I'd ever have found that otherwise.

[rick.ca]

Embed HTML font color into the Caption or Thumbnail text.

That would be 'coloured'. By 'colour-coded', I mean the colour of each item varies conditionally. Here is my Album Thumbnail Text...

Code: [Select]

<b><font color="33Mid(0123456789ABCDEF, Math(Min([a.Bitrate] / 25, 15)))F99">[Artist]<//font>
<font color="9933Mid(0123456789ABCDEF, Math(([a.Year] -1955) / 4), 1)F"><i>[Album]<//i> /([a.Year]/)<//font>
<font color="Mid(0123456789ABCDEF, Math(([a.Rating] -1.5) * 4), 1)F9933">IfElse(Compare(FormatNumber([a.Rating.avg], 0), =, 0), , Compare(FormatNumber([a.Rating.avg], 1), =, FormatNumber([a.Rating.avg], 0)), [a.Rating.avg].0, 1, [a.Rating.avg])  [a.Rating.x]<//font>
<font color="554466">[Track #] trackIf(IsEqual([Track #], 1),,s): RemoveRight([Duration], 6)<//font>
If(IsEqual([IsPlaying], 0), , P L A Y I N G   N O W)<//b>If(IsEmpty(Load(mode)), Save(work, mode), )
It helps convey visually the quality (based on [Bitrate]), age and rating of the albums. Poor quality old albums with a low rating look rather ghastly.

[vagskal]

How did you get line breaks in the tooltip for the expression field?

On the subject of looking like iTunes: It would be nice to have the option to display thumbnail text under the Image file (large thumbnail) in details view. Combine that with an option to show no group headings and I think you would be close to what the OP was after.

[rick.ca]

How did you get line breaks in the tooltip for the expression field?

Um, I pressed <Enter>. 

This is the expression:

Code: [Select]

Summary

Genre: <b>If(IsEqual([Genre], .rock), Rock, FixCase([Genre]))<//b> /([Style]/)
Artist: <b><font color="FF3333">[Artist]<//font><//b> from <b>[r.Country]<//b>
Album: <b><i>[Album]<//i><//b> • [a.Released.y] [a.Class] rated <b><font color="33FF33"> [a.Rating.x]<//font><//b>
Tracks: <b>Load(v.Tracks[Album Artist (auto)][Album])<//b> • Duration: <b>FormatDuration(Load(a.Duration[Album Artist (auto)][Album]))<//b>

[a.Review]
Maybe you're thinking of something else. The 'tooltip' I'm referring to is the same as what you would see hovering on a memo field like [Description] or [Lyrics].

[vagskal]

Um, I pressed <Enter>. 

Thanks for the clear instructions!

I did not know that line breaks were respected in expression columns. I had tried getting line breaks in expression (calculated) fields when I was attempting to find an easy way to change at once the thumbnail text used in many views (by changing that expression field instead of each and every view). But that did not work. MC just ignored everything after the first line break, without giving any warning at all.

The closest I could get to an easy thumbnail text management system was to put each line in a separate expression field (and escaping all <>). I suppose you do not have a better solution?

[AoXoMoXoA]

Regarding the interface and screen space,

I really like the 'auto-hide' feature on the full screen main view, it frees up extra space when you are not using those areas

but wish it was an individual option on the tree instead of a separate view only available in that one mode.  I like the tree handy, but out of the way just like my taskbar and tooltips.

[rick.ca]

I did not know that line breaks were respected in expression columns...

Okay, now understand what you mean. I suppose I'm just getting used to how things work, and I probably don't understand them any better than you. One source of confusion is the common Expression Editor interface that behaves differently or produces different results depending on where it's being used. So, for example, spaces and line breaks can be used in expression columns and the thumbnail text setting. (But even that needs to be qualified. If a line break is the first line of an expression, obviously nothing will appear in the column, but there will be no tooltip either.) On the other hand, any white space added to an expression field will be removed by the editor.

I was particularly confused by the latter when there were changes to allow for escaping spaces and line breaks. I thought the point of that was to make expressions more readable. They do in a text editor, but I don't need to escape them there. And the expression editor removes all of them whether they're escaped or not. I feel I must be missing something very obvious, but I still haven't figured that one out.

The closest I could get to an easy thumbnail text management system was to put each line in a separate expression field (and escaping all <>). I suppose you do not have a better solution?

As I've said, I find the thumbnail text setting to be similar to expression column. Most importantly, it will recognize line breaks. You can include expression fields just like regular fields—but AFAIK there's no way to include a line break in an expression field.

[vagskal]

Thanks for the elaboration!

I feel I must be missing something very obvious, but I still haven't figured that one out.

+1