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Author Topic: HTPC Build - BSODs [Solved]  (Read 5615 times)

kdwykleingeld

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HTPC Build - BSODs [Solved]
« on: August 01, 2012, 01:51:55 am »

Hi, i have just build my new HTPC and i am consistently getting some BSODs.

My Build:
Intel DH77DF mini-itx mobo
Intel Core i3-2120T 35w tdp   (with integrated hd 2000)
Streacom FC8 Fanless
Pico-PSU 90W DC-DC with 100W AC-DC
Crucial SSD M4 128Gb
Corsair ValueSelect DDr3 1333 8gb
Windows 7 64 OEM Pro
Sony OptiArc ODd Slot
JRiver MC 17
DbPowerAmp

Playing Audio and Manipulating the desktop - browsing etc ... works fine / and no problem at all

Playing a IFO video works fine !

However playing a mp4 , avi , mkv video immediately BSODs my system ..  

Running a "Windows System rating" process also BSODs my system somewhere in teh middle of that process

Problem Determination sofar :
1) windows is up to date
2) all drivers are latest version
3) performed memtest64 check without errors
4) removed / minimized / switched RAM without any result
5) changes powersupply to more powerfull one without success
6) performed intel processor diagnostics -- all fine
7) perfomed ms mem test - all fine
8) running in Safe Mode all works fine !! even starting these avi etc video files
 
My question now :

Is there a way to explain why a IFO dvd video file does not crash my system and a avi/m4a/mkv   file    immediately crashes my system ??
Both are kicked off from MC.
What exactly happens (technically) when kicking of either file ... is there a difference in the hardware that is invoked ..or the codecs ...  

Other ideas ?

Thanks.

reg Koen
 
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Zenith

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 03:19:44 am »

I would test everything using a standard 300w ATX power supply. You changed the brick but pico could be defective.
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 04:15:10 am »

hi thanks, i changed the whole power supply...  so i changed the pico-psu/brick combi   for a 350W atx power supply..   it did not matter at all..  So the Pico Psu is ok it seams
and provides sufficient power for the whole setup..

I am really interested in the technical difference between what happens when invoking these different video files ..

There must be something different in the process that triggers the component resulting in the BSODs..

reg koen

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Zenith

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2012, 05:26:04 am »

I had similar BSOD when I was experimenting downvolting...it could be a defective motherboard corrupetd files in SO or in the player.
Try a linux distribution like openelec. If everything works fine I would suggest to re-install everything. If not it could be the motherboard
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2012, 05:30:06 am »

hi, yes i tried windows media player..  i will try vlc later.

With Windows Mediaplayer i could start these video files .. but eventuallly it also crashed my system...

So with MC17 immediately...with windows mp i can go further but not till the end ...

Will try VLC right away ..

but what is the technical difference between thse IFO files that work all the time and the rest ?

thanks
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2012, 06:36:16 am »

just tested VLC ... also crashed but not immediately like MC when trying to run a avi/m4a etc..it took around 20-30 seconds before it crashed
.. and a second time it ran much much longer...

just like MC also VLC succeeds in running the IFO files without problem

btw.. ...   also running a "system rating" ... crashed my system immediately

so what is there to conclude..

is there somethinf specific that MC invokes imemdiately ?

thanks
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JimH

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2012, 06:45:41 am »

The difference in the files won't tell you anything.  It's a bad driver or bad hardware.
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2012, 07:14:09 am »

its not the difference in the file i am looking for but the difference in what in invoked from there in either case ..

why does a IFO workout fine and any other video file immediately BSODs

reg koen


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Zenith

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2012, 08:51:29 am »

I agree bad driver or even codec...that's why I asked to try a live linux...is quite easy  or a fresh install.
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JimH

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2012, 09:18:54 am »

A codec problem seems unlikely.
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glynor

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2012, 12:27:28 pm »

That's hardware.

I'm on my phone and didn't read the whole thread well.  Did you post the specific STOP error code?
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glynor

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2012, 12:32:22 pm »

That's hardware.

I'm on my phone and didn't read the whole thread well.  Did you post the specific STOP error code?

Read better.  You didn't.  Post the specific stop code.

My guesses:

Bad disk or cable.
GPU problems.

Both would be "hidden" by safe mode because the of the capabilities limited by the default drivers.
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glynor

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2012, 12:59:35 pm »

Is there a way to explain why a IFO dvd video file does not crash my system and a avi/m4a/mkv   file    immediately crashes my system ??

DVDs are MPEG-2, and the other file types you mentioned are almost always going to be some version of MPEG-4.

MPEG-2 decode can be hardware accelerated, but often isn't (not sure what the status of this is in LAV).  In any case, it is simple to decode, and wouldn't push the hardware anywhere near as much.

MPEG-4 (of various types) is much more difficult to decode, is much more likely to be hardware accelerated, and in any case, pushes the GPU/CPU/chipset much harder.

But, it could also be the different ways the files are stored on disk.  One larger monolithic file, versus smaller broken-up VOBs designed for streaming from an unreliable/slow optical disk.

My guess is that you might have a bad CPU or bad motherboard.  However, it is worth checking the disk/cabling too, since they're all brand new and read errors can cause BSODs.  One thing worth checking right off... The Crucial M4 has a known BSOD firmware bug.  It was fixed long ago (actually, they fixed it before it started happening, because it was one of those "on or after such-and-such a date, this will happen" bugs).

However, the two 512GB M4s I just got from Newegg a couple weeks ago were both NOT updated to the latest firmware, and were actually 2-3 revs back.  Have you checked?

Do this (in this order):

1. Post the specific BSOD error codes you're getting.  Either turn off automatically reboot and take a picture, or look in the Event Log in Windows.

2. Replace the SATA cable to the system drive and/or any secondary drive you have in the system.  Run a SMART check on the disk (HD Tune has a free trial and a nice SMART checker).

3. Update the firmware on the M4 if you didn't check it.  This is very easy.  Crucial's firmware updating system is not that much of a PITA, unlike some of the others.

4. It would also help to know specifically what test in the Windows performance checker widget dies.  This is the most important clue you mentioned above.  This is NOT a rigorous test, but it does run through the whole DirectX feature set and Windows Presentation Foundation, and it also does a read/write performance test on the system drive.  If it is crashing on this, then something is almost certainly physically broken in some way.  Especially on a clean-installed system.

5. Run some better benchmarks (Prime95, OCCT Stress Test, and 3D Mark) to see if you can replicate the trouble with non-video-related assets.
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2012, 03:27:33 pm »

hi, thanks for your reply. Some more problem determination:

1) the bsods i receive are always with code x09c from hal.dll and x101 (Stop 0x00000101 A clock interrupt was not received on a secondary processor within the allocated time interval)
2) i replaced the sate cable but that did not matter
3) i tested with this harddisk utility.. all tests ok ..   however i see 2 Ultra DMA CRC Errors  (with remark that cable might be defect)  in the health check and these erros do not disappear .. possibly these are in some cache somewhere ?
4) i have run several tests with prime95, occt and could not recreate a BSOD from there
5) i  have removed from the control panel > installed programs  the   Intel HD controlprogram for images ..   and than i was able
to run a system rating (withj louzy results for graphis and 3d) but no crash..
What is this program ? a driver ?   What does this mean ?
Reinstalling this reintroduced the BSODs (GFX_Win7_64_8.15.10.2761.exe)
6) i run my media from my NAS through the network .. so not locally .. but copying a video file to the local disk and playing from there did not matter..

Any good ideas on how to proceed ? hardware .. software ..

thanks a lot for all suggestions sofar !!

reg koen

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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2012, 03:30:13 pm »

I forgot to say but SSD already was at latest firmware level (0f)

reg koen

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glynor

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2012, 10:49:50 pm »

1) the bsods i receive are always with code x09c from hal.dll and x101 (Stop 0x00000101 A clock interrupt was not received on a secondary processor within the allocated time interval)

Both of those errors are hardware errors.  So it is almost certainly either drivers or failing hardware.  Everything else checks out, and I was already suspicious that it was the GPU based on the failures you were having.

It passed Prime (though you didn't say how long), and Memcheck, and OCCT.  That means the CPU cores are at least reasonably stable, but none of those really push on the GPU at all.  And then there's this...

5) i  have removed from the control panel > installed programs  the   Intel HD controlprogram for images ..   and than i was able
to run a system rating (withj louzy results for graphis and 3d) but no crash..
What is this program ? a driver ?   What does this mean ?
Reinstalling this reintroduced the BSODs (GFX_Win7_64_8.15.10.2761.exe)

Yes, that is the Intel HD graphics driver for the GPU in your chip.  Removing and reinstalling the driver was a good test.  What is happening is that when you remove the driver, it installs the default ("just get it working, don't do anything fancy") driver, like what it uses in Safe Mode.  This works, but doesn't use the full features of the chip.  As soon as you install the driver, it activates the full features of the GPU...

And that's when it dies.

This very likely means that GPU in your Sandy Bridge there is shot.  You said the build is brand new.  The only last questions I have are this:

1. Check to see if there is a BIOS update for your motherboard.  Chances are slim, but maybe it was some weird motherboard bug that they've now fixed.  This might be slightly more likely since you're using an older Sandy Bridge CPU on a new 77 series motherboard (which may not have been tested as rigorously in the rush to release).  If the issue is widespread, though, I'm sure they'd be under a lot of pressure to fix it, so there should be a BIOS release or at least a tech note on their website.

2. Did you clean install Windows on it, or did you try to move an installation from an older system?  If it was clean, and there isn't a BIOS update (or it doesn't fix it when you do it) then you almost certainly have broken hardware.  If you REALLY want to be sure, you could do another clean Windows install, install ONLY the GPU driver (and as little else as is possible) and then test it.  If it was a clean windows install, though... It doesn't look good.

The only other thing I'd try is try re-seating the CPU (take it out of the socket, and put it back in).  This probably isn't it with the newer LGA style pin-outs, but you never know.

Since you've swapped the PSU, and it seems like the issues are with GPU acceleration (based on the timing of the crashes and the fact that removing the driver "fixes" it), it is most likely in the CPU itself, rather than the motherboard.  But... It really could be either of them.  There's no way to be absolutely sure without swapping in a different CPU, or trying that CPU on another known-good board.

I'd bet my lunch money on a faulty iGPU in that Sandy Bridge you got there, though.

I'd start the RMA process with your vendor, if you bought it recently, or contact Intel Warranty support if you're past the return window.
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glynor

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2012, 11:03:20 pm »

PS.  Sorry, man.  That's a tough break.  It doesn't happen very often, which is why I'm always last to suspect the CPU (and, like I said, it still could be the motherboard, but I doubt it).  Frustrating when that stuff happens.

Intel is very good about their warranties, though.  If you can't return it to your store and just get a brand new one, they'll take care of you, I'm sure.
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 12:07:33 am »

hi thanks!!...
Yes it was a brand fresh install from the native w7 cd.
And i am on the latest bios version (095).

Immediately after the windows install i updated all bios/chipset and other driver stuff , applied all windows updates and made some other ssd specific changes to windows..

However.. i remember really initially (before applying all windows updates etc ) it immediately died out on me every time even with openeng  a simple browser etc ..

Since its pretty easy to test i will reinstall windows with just the gpu driver and without any tweaks and see what happens ..

Thanks for all your support..

PS...  how fragile really is the bottom of a cpu (the contact points) and the inside of the socket ?  Looking at the cpu i saw only
flat contact points .. so i guess the socket contains small "pins" that will be slightly pushed in to make contact when inserting the cpu ?? Are these very fragile ? Can one remove / replace a cpu multiple times ?? Or can inserting the cpu very easily bend a pin or so (if you move the cpu a little..)


Regards Koen
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 03:29:16 pm »

Hi, quick update :

(warranty)  replacing the CPU resolved my issue!

Regards Koen
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JimH

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs [Solved]
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2012, 04:35:46 pm »

Thanks for the report.
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glynor

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2012, 06:05:21 pm »

PS...  how fragile really is the bottom of a cpu (the contact points) and the inside of the socket ?  

I meant to come back and answer this, and I forgot.

Not very.

The CPU is (as you noticed) pretty simple.  Back in the "old days" (before the LGA-type sockets), the CPUs themselves had a big array of fragile pins, which plugged into matching socket "holes" in the motherboard socket.  Intel then released the LGA-style socket, which flipped it.  Instead, the CPU just has flat contact points, and the socket on the motherboard has the fragile array of pins.

This made the CPUs themselves far less fragile and easy to damage by bending a pin.  Conversely, it made the motherboard socket way more fragile.

You could argue (and I'd agree with you) that the main motivation for this was to make dealing with customers with bent pins the motherboard vendors' problem rather than Intel's.  Of course, in the old days, Intel always said they didn't cover bent pins, but I'm sure there were lots of cases where they had to eat it anyway (if you say it was bent when it arrived, and it is brand-new, what can you say to the customer?).  Intel would argue that the CPU is more expensive than the socket to replace, so the overall cost is lower when the failure-prone point is in the "cheap" socket rather than the expensive CPU.

In any case, now it is ASUS's problem instead.
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kdwykleingeld

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Re: HTPC Build - BSODs [Solved]
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2012, 06:04:13 am »

hi, thanks, in the mean time i carefully looked at the socket and the cpu bottom pins itself.. it is imho indeed the best option i guess to make the cpu pins less fragile compared to the socket pins since you always have to touch the cpu before inserting / dropping it into the socket...
although i have assembled / rerassembled my htpc 4 times now (including the heatpipe cooling system) so i am pretty experienced now.. applying the arctic silver always remains
a triggy part i guess...

anyways..

BTW.. what do you mean with ...    its   "ASUS" problem right now ...

And maybe other question...     do you use async USB or S/PDIF to output the digital signal of your jriver based pc (to a DAC) ? and would the quality of the USB cable make
any real difference ....     since i am a digital guy i would say no as long as the DAC can determine what a 1 and what a 0 is ...   but reading through a lot of forums
some people suggest that a "better" usb cable sounds different   ...  they mean warmer / clearer etc etc

i would say .. it either works (i.e. 0 and 1s correctly rercognized - timing is in the signal itself) ... or it does not work at all with major noise or nothing at all etc .. but the
spectrum  analyser would look the same ....

any thoughts on this one

I use a MF M1DAC async with MF M6i amplifier connected through m,y MoBo USB port and a 3 euro USB cable.. 

Some people even insert a special USB card into their HTPC .. to make the usb signal better ... same thoughts there.. imho..it works as is ... even with cheap cable ... or it does not work.. ..   maybe it is a different story if you do not have a async dac ?

So any thoughts on the Sotm USB card  when combined with async dac (with proper galvanic seperation of course)?

thanks

regards Koen




 
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