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[DMHolman]

Trying to figure out if I have something set wrong here.  Using latest MC v18, although v17 was barely any better (at least the v17 subtitles had a black border around the letters so I could see the white letters on bright video).

What I'm seeing is that compared to VLC or Media Player Classic HC on the same computer, the rendering of subtitles on MC is way below even sub par; especially when dealing with graphical or colored subtitles.  It occurs no matter if I use RO, RO HQ or custom video settings.  In many instances, where there's a subtitle that changes as the words are spoken/sung (like songs where the color shift shows where the song is in the words), I get a warbling (only word I can think of to describe it) of the audio track as long as the subtitles are on the screen.

I know that's not a lot of detail to go on, but wanted to throw up a quick message in case this was something fairly simple (some subtitle settings/configuration) that I hadn't found or set.  I did upload a couple videos I took with my cellphone of the exact same anime opening playing on MC and then on MPC-HC on the same system.  It's just really quick snippets (about 30 seconds) that shows the huge difference in subtitle render quality of the same subtitles/video file (VLC renders them like MPC-HC does, btw).

JRiver MC example is here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQX3rNiATB0

MPC-HC example is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxH5YY-7GvQ

Do I just have something set wrong here in MC?  

Thanks guys!

-D

[Matt]

From the sample video, it looks like you're using SSA subtitles that use formatting tokens that aren't supported.

We support most SSA formatting, but the SSA format is pretty expansive and loose, so we're still finding videos that need tweaking.

Could you provide the video or subtitle file?

Thanks.

[DMHolman]

I'll see what I can do about getting you a couple videos up for you to grab in the next couple of days. 

The video in the clips I uploaded were ASS. Video stats below:



I watch a lot of anime and a large number of the fan subbers use embedded ASS/SSA. 

I didn't know it was internally encoded.  Since VLC and MPC-HC rendered the subs the same, I just assumed they were using a codec to render the text.

Thanks Matt!

-Donald

[Matt]

We wrote our own subtitle engine as part of Red October.

In general, this turned a chronic weakness of the program into a strength.  We support most all subtitle formats now, have fast and stable code, can provide the highest render quality, and can show subtitles on video for DLNA, Gizmo, etc.

The one thing that sometimes makes me regret this decision is all the SSA formatting / animation stuff.  I'd give our SSA support a 'B' now.  It's not bad, but there are videos that cause trouble.  Often we can improve things a lot when we get a sample video, so please toss a video on Dropbox, Google Drive, etc (or just share a link to where you found it).

More on our subtitle system here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Subtitles

[Matt]

Thanks for the sample file.

In a coming build:
Fixed: SSA subtitles that were authored for a different resolution than the video itself would position elements incorrectly.
Fixed: Line / curve drawing elements in SSA subtitles could show as a string of numbers.
Fixed: SSA styles would not load for some videos if the SSA included comments in the style block.
Fixed: SSA style alignment could be handled incorrectly for SSA V4.0+ (since alignment changed between SSA V4.0 and SSA V4.0+).

It's still not perfect, but these fixes help your sample video quite a bit.

[DMHolman]

Matt -

Outstanding!  Thank you so much!  I sent you that second video I was talking about (that has the audio problem related to the subtitles).  

I look forward to the day that JRiver is the only media software I need on my PC.  I -really- do appreciate you guys and your willingness to listen to your customers.  Means a lot.  Thanks!

-Donald


Edited To Add One More Note:  I forgot, there's a little difference in v17 and v18 subtitles that I've seen with the ASS subs too.  In v17, there was a black outline around standard subtitles (white lettering with black outline) so you could read them even if the screen whited out.  In v18, I see it as only white text (not sure if there's no border or if the border is white).  Makes it hard to read at times.  Is that something settable?

[Matt]

Edited To Add One More Note:  I forgot, there's a little difference in v17 and v18 subtitles that I've seen with the ASS subs too.  In v17, there was a black outline around standard subtitles (white lettering with black outline) so you could read them even if the screen whited out.  In v18, I see it as only white text (not sure if there's no border or if the border is white).  Makes it hard to read at times.  Is that something settable?

What CPU do you have?

The new text engine requires SSE 4.1 for borders and outlines:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73800.0

I'm not sure how common it is for people to not have SSE 4.1, but if it's common, we'll write a legacy fallback.

[DMHolman]

What CPU do you have?

The new text engine requires SSE 4.1 for borders and outlines:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73800.0

I'm not sure how common it is for people to not have SSE 4.1, but if it's common, we'll write a legacy fallback.

That would be the issue.  I dedicated an older PC I had to just be my Media Center system.  It's running a 3.20GHz P4 640 so it only supports SSE1-3.

[Matt]

Text-based subtitles look really bad without the border, so I wrote an MMX fallback for older CPUs today.

Hopefully it'll be available sometime next week.

[DMHolman]

Thanks Matt!

So, what's the possibility that you guys will be using more and more SSE4+ in the future?  Trying to decide if I should upgrade this PC or not.  I'd rather not, but if it saves me heartache down the line it may be worth it.

-Donald