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[zevele1]

PAS VRAIMENT!!!  la merde oui

[Cmagic]

Comme tu dis Zev !

At first I did not feel like listening to my music tonight. But then I decided
to play Rolling Stones - Street Fighting Man
To help me overcome all this.

Hope, it won't be too much La Merde !

[zevele1]

At one level.it won't be.Chirac will be elected with an hudge%
But at other levels,it can be
Arrogance of "the winners"
Much more arrogance from the "no white",and violence
Radicalisation of the real left

Since long i see and feel France  being lost,with no project and no model of society .
The few times i wacht news on France2,i saw so many acts of savage and barbaric violence,that i am afraid[i do not speak about anti jew violence,this is no
the main problem in France today]
Easy to blame,not so easy to cure

In an other hand the politic of "mozaique" and not total integration as in USA for immigrants  was a very interesting one.And one of hight moral value
But not to see that it was a total failure has lead to a situation i would not believe if i had now see it
I am sorry to say that in  my opinion  this is only the beginning,the worse is to come
Not Le Pen,but this fragmented violent tribal society where religion remplace Republique on one side,and left try to get the color of democrats to be smart and the rigth slepping with the devil
La lutte des classes n est pas morte,malgres ce qu ils disent



it

[JimH]

This is what the discussion is about:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=4&u=/nm/20020421/ts_nm/france_election_dc_31

[Cmagic]

Zev,
Your opinion is a bit on the dark side.
I feel sorry tonight because what I really believe in did not win. But I don't
think it's the beginning of some bad time. Although you are right when you say
there is no interesting project nowadays from any political side this, I Think,
is a more general problem. It's not only true in France.
In a way this could be very good for the french political leaders. For the past
2O years or so, they did play with fire, sometime using the xtreme right as
a kind of scarecrow. Today it looks like they're paying it cash.
We'll see how it goes in the coming weeks. Chirac will probably make a 80%
second election round, but the very interesting thing will be the "legislatives" in
June.
You know how french folks are strange, they might vote for the left this time.
Well, maybe I'm dreaming... If things go the way you think I'll then just have to
pack my bag and go my father's or my wife's way.

En attendant, it looks like I will have to vote Chirac. (J'aurais jamais cru cela !)

By the way, JimH and the interact folks, "excusez nous" for this little chat on
the present political situation in France.

[JimH]

Non, pas de tout!  Nous vous ecoutons bien et nous nous amusons biens aussi.  C'est un peu grave, mais partout, c'est la meme.

In the U.S., we have the same struggle left and right, and the issue of immigration is also on our minds.  We welcome people from other countries, but we fear too many.  And that, I think, is a population problem.

So Scronch, how about that Free Unlimited Energy Thing, what a game that was, right?

[zevele1]

yes i am on the dark side but not because of the elections-even less because of anti jews violence.
There is 6 millions arabs.Most of them tear between the not so progressive parents generation and the europeen way of life.They are traited like second class citizens.Because of the mosaique politic,they never had to put themself in a formal frame.Because of the lack of moral ,politic model of society,they do not have any ..model to try to be part of
The only way they have to get an identity is religion,most of the time the integrist one.
Because France never really care to built mosques-afraid of what of mister white average will say-and left a viod.And there is hundred of underground mosques running by ultra integrists from Pakistan,taliban,jihad and so on
They get an identity,a proudness[?].But not as french.Frenchs and France is enemy
It is kind of a tribe inside the main tribe.At all levels.Can you understand them when they speak?Is this french?They do not even share the language,they invent a new one.
Do you listen to the lyrics of rap song?You do not get afraid by such a violence?
And it is not the fake violence of idiots us rapers.It is real ,everyday violence.

There is all the blacks people,not traited better.But most of them not french and recent immigrants.Because of the lack of model from France,they just keep,sometimes even reactive tribal ,ethnic "war"
On the top of it you have all this white we do not know to read,to write.Having spend all they life in homes without money,without parents having a job.Who are more lost than the other two
And all of it more and more.And,according to what i see when in France,worse and worse everytime i am comming

Politic a solution?No one has color,no one has balls.If you been in front of the tv this night did you heard one word that can show they will change?
Demagogy is the rule.At all levels
Chirac given appologies in the name of french Republic for deportation of jews.To be quiet on this side and get some voices
Some french people deported jews NOT the Republic.And you give the image of the Republic as a racist ,criminal entity.And you want french of forein origine to stick to Republic values at the same?
There is many many other exemples like this one.But i was so upset by this that i gave  this one
Of cause France is not only this.And you and others may live in quiet places where all of this seems far away.But the problem is here and i am not optimistic at all
I do not see a big crash,but a slow decline to what,better not to think

Yes french are able to elect the left in legislatives-you congress i think-
And the problem will start again.With no one strong enought to be able to apply a program

I spent a large part of my life outside France.I mean before to come to Israel.One year here,6 months there.The "outside " view give an other way to understand things,to see things.
And to know where you stand concerning your culture,to where and to who you belong
As a result i do not have a great opinion of frenchs,but a great one of France-i know a paradox-And by culture i am 100% french.And i do not like what i see,i feel

If in France I WILL NOT VOTE CHIRAC in 2 weeks,i will stay home

As a french i can vote here for elections.I do not cause i think it is not fair to vote if you are not living in the country

To "uncle Sam' friends on  interact.The problem is not the same that in US.98% of the people i speak about are french,born in France.It is much more than an emigration problem.It is a very deep society problem

mozaique;unlike in the Us ,you do not stick to the american model
You stick to the main values,with you  culture,heritage.Kind of you create your own"american model"
All this "own model' mixed together and with the american model lead to a new kind of society
Multi racial,cultural with a strong common  trunk
Not a republican  stuff this one.................But of higth intelectual and moral value
But it was a total failure.With no one seing it and caring about it

[Cmagic]

Zev,

Although you did not vote, I can feel that your are really concerned by the present political situation over here. I agree with most of what you said but I don't have both your outside view on what's
going on here and your "eloquence" in expressing my own feelings. I have never been good in putting what I think in words.
When I woke up this morning I had a mixed feeling.
I felt both ashamed of what's going on and worried, not for me but for The folks I Love,
For the people who love France, for my Friends, my family for my Wife and Kids.
But then I don't know, I feel angry that a lot of people did not vote yesterday
because they thought the game had been played already. (not for you Zev )
The press, TV & radio emphasized on the Chirac/Jospin "Duel" for the second turn and they
are probably responsible in part.
Also too many candidates took part (16) with a lot of different candidates for the left wing
and, of course,the "lassitude" of five years of right/left cohabitation.
But maybe the main reasons, as you said, is not France but the french people !
In this country the beautiful is next to the ugly, the brightness next to the dullness
and "le génial cotoie la connerie".
So many reasons.
I know (or should I say I hope) this result does not reflect the true feeling of
most people over here.

This is not much compared to your deep analysis on the french society but it's the way
I feel right now (also expressing feelings in english is a bit difficult)

Zevele thanks for starting the discussion and thanks Jim for letting it go.
A propos, ton français n'est pas mal
Now, what's that Free Unlimited energy stuff ??

[JimH]

Merci, mais ma francais n'est pas si bien que ton anglais.  C'est un peu drole -- l'effet n'est pas jamais comme je veux, mais les mots sembles vraies.

Demain, je vais a l'ecole encore -- Alliance Francaise.  Il y a longtemps quand j'ai alle deja.

[zevele1]

JimH
You may have the same problem than us.To speak is ok,to read also.But to write is  really
dificult.It is a real chalenge.I can tell you that i speak ways better than i write
And there is not spelling checker,and my dictionary is still in some boxes............

Cmagic
C EST LA LUTTE FINALE OUVRIERS PAYSANS.........In fact at the start not a communist song but a socialist one

All i said is not a new felling,it was just the occasion to speak about it
.
And ,as you say,the frenchs................They can give 80% of the voices to Le Pen on sunday and be in the streets against him on monday..............
let's hoppe that in few years  would be a way to praise the 20% of Le Pen as the start of a new reaction/creation for the french society
As a typical french i am not very found of Anglos societys,but we do need to learn from them at some level
And,yes to have to write it in english is not easy task
Look like not so much  work today in offices in France...much more speechs,sure
Anyway,do not let down,RESISTE

Listening to a best of from Berrurier Noir..it is today or never!
refrain:et enculer le gros LePen[live Olympia] et aussi Pinochet,pine au cul.....
Pas tres intello,mais.....

[Cmagic]

...pas tres intello, mais ca defoule

You're right not too much work to day. Actually the atmosphere was strange
this morning at work. When I came in the lab, everybody was quiet, busy
reading the mail, nervously manipulating keyboards and mouses. Until the coffee
break at around 10h30 nobody talked. And then someone started theorizing about
what would be an explanation of le pen's score. From that moment it's
the "bordel" in the lab ! Everybody's talking, yapping, preparing the next revolution,
I can't even do my usual work like trying to answer question on MJ Interact

Anyway, you can be sure I will, We will RESIST !

Now listening Stan Getz & Charlie Byrd - E Luxo So to ease my mind.

[zevele1]

Sorry but i cannot resist:n'ayez pas trop de pen
C est nul,je sais!