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[Osho]

I am curious if anyone here has figured out an easy way to "sync" Theater View and Gizmo views? I have been lately continuously refining views for TheaterView (hierarchy/single line info etc.) and am trying to use the same view for Gizmo as well. I find this easy to use as this makes it "intuitive" as to what I see where in my 2 primary mode of consuming the media content. BTW, I like different views for Standard View as that is typically used more for organizing and editing media information rather than consuming the media content.

How can this be done easily?

Thanks,
Osho

[csimon]

I've been asking for this sort of thing, but apparently it's not possible because views set up for one device are not suitable for another device and won't work properly.

Apparently...

In my experience, I want exactly the same views for all modes of MC operation, regardless of the device it's used on, so a central view library, or at least the ability to sync views between modes, would be extremely useful.

[cgf]

I Have asked the same feature a long time ago, it's very frustrated to have three different areas to keep up to date. This is a very good example how the flexibility may become a pain in the ...

[HTPC4ME]

+!'d before +1 still

[GaryWW]

+1

[Jong]

+1 Also asked for this before.

I realize it is not easy and there will be a need to offer different views for different devices. but a way of basing Theaterview, Gizmo, WebGizmo and DNLA views off a common base is badly needed. Even adding an extra instance of the DNLA server to suit a new home device currently requires completely recreating its views from scratch (at least as far as I know!).

[magnust]

I would be happy with a "copy setup" button to copy all the views from one device to another. From normal player to any DLNA server I set up. Or from normal player to WebGizmo. And so on. Please? Pretty pretty please? 

[csimon]

Copying is not the whole story. When you make a change you then have to make the change manually in all views. If it involves restructuring as opposed to just a single/simple change, it's made more complicated again. What I advocate is a central library of views and you can then link them in each of the areas you want to use them, as opposed to copying/importing them.  That way, if a change is made centrally, it happens in all areas automatically because it's linked not copied. That still allows custom views for each area - you just don't link them in the areas that you don't want them in!  I think people have misunderstood in the past that a central library means exactly the same views and structure in every single area and no ability to customise. It doesn't mean that at all, your areas are still independent, it's just that you've got a central library to pick their building blocks from.

[glynor]

I would be happy with a "copy setup" button to copy all the views from one device to another. From normal player to any DLNA server I set up. Or from normal player to WebGizmo. And so on. Please? Pretty pretty please? 

You can do this, but only one view at a time (not the whole set).

But... This is still more workable than you might think.  The way I do it is this:

1. In my Standard View Tree, I have a custom top level item called Advanced.  I keep all my handy-dandy "utility views" under there.
2. Underneath Advanced, I have a "folder" View called Theater View & Media Network.
3. Underneath that, I have Standard View "replicas" of all of my Theater and Media Network views.  I always CONSTRUCT them via Standard View, and then just import them in the respective Theater/Media Network configuration sections.

It actually works quite well.  Since it is easy to drag-drop views in Standard View to create copies, I can quickly copy my views from various places in Standard View into these "folders" and create copies.  Then I tweak them for Theater/Network use, and import them.

I was actually one of the "leaders" of the charge against this change way back when it was originally made (way back in the day, Theater View was ALWAYS a replica of your Standard Views).  I lost.

However, I've now come around to this system.  I realized, over time, that I was constructing my Standard Views in a much more limited way than was necessary, in order to allow them to be "cross-compatible" with navigation in Theater View.  For example, I'd resist adding additional Panes to my regular Music view.  Sure, you want Genre/Artist/Album, but you probably don't want to have to navigate through Keywords, Year, Month, Disk Location and all sorts of other "panes" when you are browsing through a "drill down" scheme in Theater View.  But, having these extra panes available in Standard View doesn't hurt anything (as long as you have a high resolution monitor, and I usually have two or three).  Having them separate, does allow for more flexibility.

Almost all of my Theater and Network views are based on my Standard Views, but they're no longer exact replicas, because it unties my hands to be able to configure them separately.

If yours are really exact replicas, you may want to reconsider.  Think about what would be BEST for navigating with a remote, versus what would be BEST for a mouse/keyboard setup.  And then, make custom ones that are based on your regular Standard Views, but save them elsewhere, and you can have the best of both worlds.

[csimon]

If yours are really exact replicas, you may want to reconsider.  Think about what would be BEST for navigating with a remote, versus what would be BEST for a mouse/keyboard setup.  And then, make custom ones that are based on your regular Standard Views, but save them elsewhere, and you can have the best of both worlds.

That's missing the point!  I'm not aiming to sit at a PC in order to play music or watch a movie. These are living room activities.  Or in rooms that otherwise don't have a PC and monitor. And I have too many remote controls with too many buttons and functions.

Therefore what I'm after is a touch interface.  Whether I'm using a DLNA renderer, Gizmo, WebGizmo, or Theater View (although Theater View has its limitations at the moment as a touch interface - it really is designed exclusively for use with a remote control and/or keyboard and mouse). But at any rate, those first three methods are all accessed via a handheld touch device. My views are the same as each other and they're going to remain the same as each other. The eventual device that is doing the rendering doesn't matter, it's the device you're using to browse with that determines what views you set up and how to browse.  I want to be able to use the same interface  (my finger) in whatever room I'm in and whatever device is doing the rendering. So basically, I've got three different areas to set up the same views seperately, and actually a fourth because in order to make use of the copy/replicate/import function, I have to set them up needlessly in Standard View first.   Standard View is only used for maintaining the library therefore the browsing views are superfluous there, as the OP said.

Each person will have their own ways of using MC.  Having a central library of views does not in any way restrict you to using the same views in all areas, as you seem to think.  It just means that you don't have to copy and replicate things if you don't need to.  You wouldn't need to keep replicas of your own views for each area, for example. If you wanted every area completely different then yes, you would have dozens of custom views. But for those of us who have a genuine reason for having the same/similar views in more than one area, please make it easier for us to do so.

[csimon]

Just had a thought. In practice, don't you design your views according to the function you are performing or the way you are going to be using the interface, as opposed to the device or protocol used to deliver and render the media?

In other words, you don't design your views specific to DLNA protocol, or Web protocol, you desing them to fit the following scenarios:

1. Browsing via mouse & keyboard
2. Browsing via a remote control
3. Browsing via a touch interface
4. Maintaining your media library

Here's an example of a way in which the current system falls down. Suppose you use Web Gizmo and sometimes when you use it you are at a desktop PC, other times you are at a laptop, other times you are using an iPad, other times you are using your TV's built-in web browser.

You can only set up one set of views for Web Gizmo and you therefore currently have to use the same set of views across all the scenarios above and it's almost guaranteed that at least one of them will prove awkward. The same set of views are also used for any other app that connects to the web service APIs, e.g. Android Gizmo, JRemote, My River etc.

There is a similar situation with DLNA devices, although this has been solved to large extent by the ability to set up more than one DLNA server (mind you, there is still no easy replicate function for multiple DLNA servers). Suppose sometimes you are at a media player box and want to access a remote DLNA server, other times you have a DLNA app on your iPad and want to push media to the box instead of using the box's own interface.  For a touch interface, scrolling and swiping through a larger number of entries is dead easy, perhaps the app gives you an alpha index down the side for "quick jumps" too. But try that interface on a media player with a remote control and it's frustrating and slow to the point where you don't bother with it any more,  You could get round it by defining a view that subdivides your collection into A-Z first maybe and maybe other categories, then drill down to give you a more mangeable set of items on each level, but that would then be tedious on the iPad. Yet both are still using the same DLNA protocol.  The way you want to set up your views should depend not on the protocol but on the interface you are using to browse with.

[glynor]

Each person will have their own ways of using MC.  Having a central library of views does not in any way restrict you to using the same views in all areas, as you seem to think.

Wow...

You don't need to be so aggressive.  I was just explaining a possible system that could help solve the problem for you.

Whatever.

PS.  I think you also need to re-read what I wrote, because it wasn't ME who completely missed the point.  You're arguing that I think (and suggested) the exact opposite of what I did.

[csimon]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound aggressive!

[glynor]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound aggressive!

It's okay.

I'm excitable too.   

[MrC]

In other words, you don't design your views specific to DLNA protocol, or Web protocol, you desing them to fit the following scenarios:

Tangent ahead.  Actually, I do this for some views.  I have 1/2 dozen different DLNA devices, and each has its own requirements.  So the views are built around how they work.  And that also means 4 different DLNA servers from MC, each with its own rules for file display.

And for DLNA, the views need to work in a number of usage scenarios, pulling or pushing content, so it gets a little complicated.

If theater view customizations weren't see deep into Options, it might make customizing less a chore.  It would be nice if all view customizations were done in one easily accessible place.  And bonus points if it shows live previews, even approximate ones, as you configure.

[glynor]

I don't think that was really OT, but in any case, returning to the subject at hand...

I'd like to make clear...  I wasn't suggesting that I'd be opposed (in ANY way) to an improvement of the system for importing and copying views between the three Library modes of MC.

I'd be VERY for that.  I don't know that we need a way to make them always match, but I would certainly not argue that the current system is perfect.  I was making the point that: We had that before, it wasn't good, and I didn't realize it until later (I was wrong).  But, yes, I prefer to have very similar, but slightly different views (and view structures) in Theater View, Standard View, and MCWS view (which is "JRemote View", as far as I'm concerned).

When I add new views to Standard View (like my fancy Play Doctor-based mixes), it is a royal pain to import/modify them around to Theater View and Media Network, and I'd love some mechanism to smooth that.  I think, if I remember correctly, that way back when this was initially changed, Matt admitted that the UI for importing/exporting was a kludge, and said he'd revisit it someday.

I think the issue is less that it should be improved and more in that:

1. How, specifically, should it be improved?  What mechanism would satisfy the 80/20 (or 90/10, at least) rule best?  What way, that is not a "add a special checkbox for me that makes it this way, and doesn't help anyone else", would work well, and what are the implications?

2. Time.  They have some stuff on their plates.

As a real aside, what we REALLY, REALLY painfully need is a way to copypasta Zones (unless they finally did that while I was passed out under a rock somewhere, which is certainly possible, and MrC will probably be here to tell me about it in 5, 4, 3, 2...)

[MrC]

Nope, I was in the same food comma fog as you.

[magnust]

You can do this, but only one view at a time (not the whole set).

I know... it's a pain    First copy one by one to the DLNA server and then again one by one to the webgizmo server. Ugh....



Great to see this topic being discussed!!

[csimon]

*argued