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[MrHaugen]

We've had a lot of discussions about certain defaults in theater view the last months. Everything from views, sort order and captions. Jim mentioned that they consider changing some things, but I think they would like to figure out what's most important and what people consider the best out of the box experience.

So, I suggest you help us out and identify the most significant problems you encountered when first started using Theater View. If we get some consensus on the most important things to fix and how to fix them, JRiver might be able to provide a better experience for new users. Try to be brief and accurate, and perhaps focus on the most serious and simple to fix issues instead of making a mile long list.

This list might be somewhat unfair as votes for initial ideas are bound to get more votes than newer suggestions. We could run a poll on those later to find focus points.

Possible things to look at:

• Default Series view with Seasons. Votes: 3
• Better Captions for multiple media types. Votes: 2
• "Season" text in addition to the number (caption & roller). Votes: 2
• Add Season & Episode sort order to TV Show views in Gizmo/WebGizmo. Votes: 1
• Accept Recorded TV custom caption. Votes: 2
• A clock on the EPG page. Votes: 2
• TV Guide should only contain chosen channels. Votes: 1
• TV Channels option to just show the "chosen" or "Favorite" channels. Votes: 1

[MrHaugen]

I'll start of with my 3 biggest issues with Theater View default settings.

Series/Season Views
A lot of people expect to see the seasons under the Series category in the Series view. There is a Season view, but I do think this creates some confusion, as people DO want to see the series, not only season. That might be the reason some people fight to create a season level on the Series view. So my suggestion is to remove the Season view and add Season category to the Series view. People can remove it much easier if they don't like it after a while.

Season text
When working with seasons, there's only numbers showing. This is not normal nor pleasant to look at. This data should be handled as an exception and presented as "Season x" both on the roller and for season category caption.

Caption
Today's caption is just BAD. There's probably close to no cases where the [Name] tag is sufficient. You should consider adding something like this:

Custom [Critic Rating Stars] expression:

Code: [Select]

ifelse( isrange([Critic Rating],0.0-2.9),☆, isrange([Critic Rating],3.0-3.9),★, isrange([Critic Rating],4.0-4.9),★☆, isrange([Critic Rating],5.0-5.9),★★, isrange([Critic Rating],6.0-6.4),★★☆, isrange([Critic Rating],6.5-6.9),★★★, isrange([Critic Rating],7.0-7.4),★★★☆, isrange([Critic Rating],7.5-7.9),★★★★, isrange([Critic Rating],8.0-8.9),★★★★☆, isrange([Critic Rating],9.0-10),★★★★★)
Caption Example

Code: [Select]

if(!isempty([Web Media Info]), [Name], IfElse(IsEqual([Media Sub Type], Movie), IfElse(!isempty([Number Plays]), if(Math(!formatnumber([Bookmark]) | above(formatnumber([Bookmark]) / [Duration,0], 900)), <font color="C3FFB3">√ <font color="888888">, <font color="FF6E6E"> ! <//font>))[Name] <font color="C3FFB3">[Critic Rating Stars], IsEqual([Media Sub Type], Music Video), [Name] <font color="C3FFB3">/ IfElse((isequal([rating],1,2),★, isequal([rating],2,2),★★, isequal([rating],3,2),★★★, isequal([rating],4,2),★★★★, isequal([rating],5,2),★★★★★), IsEqual([Media Sub Type], TV Show), If(!isempty([Number Plays]), if(Math(!formatnumber([Bookmark]) | above(formatnumber([Bookmark]) / [Duration,0], 900)), <font color="C3FFB3">√ <//font><font color="888888">S[Season]EPadNumber([Episode], 2) [Name] <font color=" C3FFB3"> [Critic Rating Stars]<//font>, <font color="FF6E6E"> ! <//font><font color="888888">S[Season]EPadNumber([Episode], 2)<//font> [Name] <font color=" C3FFB3"> [Critic Rating Stars]), <font color="888888">S[Season]EPadNumber([Episode], 2)<//font> [Name] <font color="C3FFB3"> [Critic Rating Stars]), IsEqual([Media Sub Type], Trailer), If(!isempty([Number plays]), <font color="C3FFB3">√ <font color="888888"> [Name], [Name]), IsEqual([Media Type], Audio),[Name] <font color="888888">by<//font> [Artist] <font color="C3FFB3">ifelse(isequal([rating],1,2),★, isequal([rating],2,2),★★, isequal([rating],3,2),★★★,isequal([rating],4,2),★★★★,isequal([rating],5,2),★★★★★)<//font>,[Name], 1, [Name]))
Examples taken from this thread:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=post;msg=506134;topic=74635.0;sesc=7a1c22f639041ab609262fbc8c123350

I'm in no way saying this caption example is THE answer. But it shows how much more can be done than what we have today. My suggestion would be to make the stars yellow/gold, add [Series] tag to the TV Show caption and perhaps make the Rating range more normal so it's easier to read how good a video are. Perhaps also throw in a symbol for when media is on a removable drive that is missing?

[InflatableMouse]

I typically stay away from these discussions because developers have repeatedly acknowledged these wishes and said they will see what they can do, but at the same time said it has a low priority.

I consider you a respected member of the community and I think I am not alone when I say that a lot of people, including the devs appreciate your contribution. However, and please don't take offense at this, but I do believe that beating this same issue over and over, to the point of annoyance even, is not really contributing anything anymore. It's been discussed so many times already, I think you've made your point many times over .

My 2 cents buddy, peace.

[MrHaugen]

Jim mentioned they were aware of the problem, and asked what users consider good defaults. I take that as a good indication that the time might be right some day. Hence this thread.
What will actually be done about it is another matter. I tend to hope for the best. Annoying as it may be, nothing will be done if people don't speak up.

[muzicman0]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread or not, but since you brought up captions...my annoyance is that for recorded TV, there is something internal to MC that forces the captions to be displayed in a certain manner, so I end up having to re-import all my recorded TV to another folder on the drive.  This should be an option somewhere so that recorded TV can use the custom caption instead of the internal caption.

I also don't see a need for a 'season' and a 'series' view.  To me, the season view should just default to displaying episodes in season/episode order, with perhaps a sub view of each season available...something like this:

Series
  -season 1  -season 2  -...
S1E1 - blah blah blah
S1E2 - blah blah blah
S1E...
S2E1 - blah blah blah
S2E2 - blah blah blah
S2E...
...

Hopefully that makes sense.




mm0

[NickF]

I must admit that I have done so much customisation to Theater View that I can't remember what the default looks like!

I agree with MrHaugen's Season proposal.  Season on its own is pointless.  We need Season under Series.

I have a grey out of watched Episodes which is very useful.  I think this should be default behaviour.

The TV Guide needs serious work.  We have made the suggestions several times already - showing programs set to record in the guide, moving timeline. 

Nick.

[muzicman0]

how did you get the grey out of watched episodes? 

[NickF]

how did you get the grey out of watched episodes?  

See "Tweaks to Theater View" here:

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/TV_Shows_-_Series,_Seasons_%26_Episodes

Nick.

[muzicman0]

I have a custom caption that grey's out things I watch, but it doesn't work on recorded TV...are you saying that this works on recorded TV???

[NickF]

I have a custom caption that grey's out things I watch, but it doesn't work on recorded TV...are you saying that this works on recorded TV???

I'm afraid it doesn't.  There is a separate, standard caption used for certain types of media, Recorded TV included.  The programmable caption isn't used here.  We have previously asked for this standard caption to include the greying feature.

Nick.

[MrHaugen]

People have been hammering this subject in the past, but now that we ask for peoples input to possibly help correcting some of these defaults, there's little interest?

Please tell us what you thought were missing when you started using Theater View. Keep it within the things that are possible to do with the tools we have today. I'll maintain a list with votes in the starter thread.

[NickF]

People have been hammering this subject in the past, but now that we ask for peoples input to possibly help correcting some of these defaults, there's little interest?

Please tell us what you thought were missing when you started using Theater View. Keep it within the things that are possible to do with the tools we have today. I'll maintain a list with votes in the starter thread.

MrH, could you include in your list:

• TV Guide to show programmes set for recording - once and subscription
• Real time moving timeline on TV Guide to indicate current status of programmes in the guide

Thanks,

Nick.

[Sandy B Ridge]

MrH, could you include in your list:

• TV Guide to show programmes set for recording - once and subscription
• Real time moving timeline on TV Guide to indicate current status of programmes in the guide

Thanks,

Nick.

+1 for these 2.

[InflatableMouse]

Keep it within the things that are possible to do with the tools we have today.

You mean what is currently possible with Media Center/Theater View configuration?

[MrHaugen]

You mean what is currently possible with Media Center/Theater View configuration?

Correct. I'm just pointing out that this is not supposed to be a feature suggestion thread.

• TV Guide to show programmes set for recording - once and subscription
• Real time moving timeline on TV Guide to indicate current status of programmes in the guide

Which probably those two are. I have never tried the Guide section as I have no tuner, but I'll leave it out for now unless you can convince me that you can do this in options today.

This thread is all about changing default behavior with what we have today. Nothing else.

[Jong]

I totally agree with these suggestions.

[Sandy B Ridge]

Correct. I'm just pointing out that this is not supposed to be a feature suggestion thread.
Which probably those two are. I have never tried the Guide section as I have no tuner, but I'll leave it out for now unless you can convince me that you can do this in options today.

This thread is all about changing default behavior with what we have today. Nothing else.

OK.
Simple one then. A clock on the EPG page.

[NickF]

On the Theater View menu, I don't like TV and Movies being under a Video top level item.  These are both significant subjects which deserve to be at the top level.

TV Guide should only contain chosen channels.  We are currently achieving this using Keywords and an expression in the Guide setup.

Under TV, I would like to see a TV Channels option, just showing the "chosen" of "Favourite" channels.  This can be done in Theater View setup options.

Nick.

[NickF]

OK.
Simple one then. A clock on the EPG page.

+1

Nick.

[MrHaugen]

Added the two last suggestions. I've left out the moving of the TV and Movie views to the primary roller. The reason is that this was discussed a lot when the groupings were first introduced. I doubt that JRiver would move those items out of the video category, leaving video category pretty much empty. And from those discussions I got an impression that the current way was a common way of looking at video grouping.

[psykotick]

Hello,

When i saw this thread, i said "man, this time, you have to say what you have inside". So sorry, this is my first post but just be sure that I read this forum for a while.

I'm a XBMC user for many time, since its first port on Windows. Years after years, XBMC UI has become a reference about usability, beauty, WAF ... Xbmc is a really good product but the road they choosed is not the road that some people want them to take : focusing on image quality ! One proof is that the most popular thread of Xbmc windows forum is talking about integrating external player.

Guys, when I see JRiver's specs for the first time, it was like a dream : quality of picture similar to mp-hc, video libraries, theater view. When I installed JRiver, I was quite disapointed because theater view was not usable, specially when you come from XBMC.

And to be honest, I was wondering buying JRiver and when I saw that theater view in mc18 was slightly the same than mc17, it was easy to take my decision.

For me, the best improvment you can do in JRiver is to port XBMC UI and be sure that you'll gain a new community of people ! Because you have a wonderful product in your hands !!

Hope that it helps

Regards

[MrHaugen]

There's more of us that think the theater view needs a real facelift, but this is not such a thread. You can do things to Theater View today, that makes it much nicer than the default, and that is the purpose of this thread. Not to rewrite Theater View. JRiver have said that does not happen for MC17. I guess it probably applies to MC18 as well given the current task of porting to Mac etc.

We need suggestions that can improve the Theater View default with the tools we have available. That is a much simpler task than what you're suggesting. And it would help quite a bit for new and experienced users.

[Jong]

I was quite disapointed because theater view was not usable, specially when you come from XBMC.

If you can spare the time, I would be very interested in a separate thread (not here for the reason MrHaugen has said), saying what specific things would change your mind. I hope the JRiver team would be similarly interested as the XBMC community must be a prime potential market.

I do agree TheaterView needs a make over. It does feel very dated. On the other hand all the essential components, for me, are there - posters, fanart, flow views. Although I know it could be better I, personally, would not give up MC's flexibility, configurability and audio/video quality for some XBMC gloss. Not saying I wouldn't like it though!

[psykotick]

If you can spare the time, I would be very interested in a separate thread (not here for the reason MrHaugen has said), saying what specific things would change your mind. I hope the JRiver team would be similarly interested as the XBMC community must be a prime potential market.

Hi, that's sound like a good idea Just need some time to retest mc18 to adress missing features (as you said there's already so much existing). I'll open a new thread later

Regards !
Psyko

[MrHaugen]

A few days ago there was a user that found missing sort order in Gizmo views. I'll add that to the list of possible fixes.

[MrHaugen]

As some might have noticed, the recent builds includes major changes to the Caption configuration. This is now highly customizable with help popups, ability to separate caption on custom searches and to stick this to certain file info templates +++. The Season category have added the Season text, and there's been an overhaul of the sorting order in some TV Show views.

This fixes almost everything I personally wanted with this thread. And that's the reason why I was quiet all these days. Now that everything non tuner/EPG related is fixed, I seen little reason to update this tread. For defaults and improvements with tuner support and EPG, I would suggest starting a new thread instead.

Thanks a lot to JRiver for listening to us!


What was it you said again, InflatableMouse? 

[InflatableMouse]

What can I say?

The new changes are awesome, I can only respect the time and effort you and others have put into this.