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[sirganty]

hi there,

i've recently purchased an audio gd nfb1.32 dac.
this dac supports 32/192 over usb (with drivers) in win 7, and my windows control panel has this set as the output format, and the test button works fine.

unfortunately i cant get jriver to output at this bitdepth (the usual "not supported" message and asks to change to 24 bit)
changing to 24 bit plays my flacs fine, but i cant help but feel 32 bit should also be working, and whilst probably inaudible to me, should also produce better results

am i doing something wrong?
is wasapi event style limiting it?

many thanks for any help / advice
antony

[Matt]

Welcome.

We use floating point for 32-bit output (WAVE_FORMAT_IEEE_FLOAT), and I'm wondering if the device only supports 32-bit integer format?

Does the DAC have an ASIO driver?  If so, please give that a try since that uses the ideal bitdepth automatically (and would support 32-bit int or any other format requested by ASIO).

[sirganty]

thanks for the welcome and the reply matt.

i assume the drivers are asio, but the device isnt detected as asio by jriver, so i dont really know how to progress that route.
i have mailed the guys who built it, so maybe they can shed more light from that side too.

cracking software by the way 
ive been using it daily on a couple of media pcs / laptops for a while now and it never ceases to please

[Matt]

If you'd be willing to work with me, I think it'd be nice to add the option for 32-bit integer output to DSP Studio > Output Format > Bitdepth.

This would allow you to deliver 32-bit integer or 32-bit floating point (instead of only floating point).

I would need help because I don't have a device that accepts 32-bit integer, so let me know if you're interested.

[sirganty]

I certainly would be willing... it's the least I can do, as, with hindsight, the $50 was a snip for what I have got back already!

just let me know what I can do

[Matt]

I certainly would be willing...

Thanks.

I'll try to follow-up by the end of the week with a testing build that offers 32-bit integer output.

You'll be our guinea pig tester

[sirganty]

Sounds good to me

By the way, I've spoken to kingwa (the main man at audio-gd) who confirms that although he hasn't tested with jriver in particular, 32bit over wasapi isn't possible through foobar either (24 bit max), and therefore must be done via KS.

He believes its a limitation in the wasapi model, although whether he meant wasapi in general or wasapi within foobar I don't know.

I have also found some documentation from Cambridge Audio suggesting a more general 24/96 limit in wasapi over USB too, so maybe I should be trying to understand why/how to get it working via asio?

I assume you know better, as this would be a pointless exercise otherwise!

I can confirm that my drivers are asio, and the asio control panel is set to 32/192. But the device isn't recognised as asio from within jriver. (No asio devices detected)
I don't know if there is a step I am missing here?

[Matt]

Could you try this build:
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/test/MediaCenter180062.exe

Please note that it's v18, which is in beta.

Select '32-bit' (not '32-bit (floating point)') in DSP Studio > Output Format.  Then try to play using WASAPI - Event Style.

Does audio work?  Does video work?

Thanks for your help.

[sirganty]

Right, I've had a go, but get the same error, asking me to change to 24 bit to continue.

The only output mode it seems happy to do 32bit is direct sound, which I'm pretty sure will be worse than 24bit wasapi event?

Even under direct sound mode "32 bit" just makes popping sounds, it is the old floating point setting the successfully plays.

I also still have no joy with jriver 'detecting' my device as asio, so I have been unsuccessful on that front too.

The drivers provided by the dac manufacturer are via envy 32bit, with a control panel for setting the depth/sample rate; at these not specifically asio drivers? My assumption was that any dac drivers would automatically be asio drivers?

[Matt]

Right, I've had a go, but get the same error, asking me to change to 24 bit to continue.

I'm a little stumped then.  Perhaps there really is a WASAPI limitation?

On the bright side, I think the best DACs can really only use around 18-20bits, so even 24bit is plenty for the final output.

The only output mode it seems happy to do 32bit is direct sound, which I'm pretty sure will be worse than 24bit wasapi event?

Yes, that just pushes the data through the Windows mixer to convert to the mixing format so isn't what you want.

I also still have no joy with jriver 'detecting' my device as asio, so I have been unsuccessful on that front too.

The drivers provided by the dac manufacturer are via envy 32bit, with a control panel for setting the depth/sample rate; at these not specifically asio drivers? My assumption was that any dac drivers would automatically be asio drivers?

I don't think a control panel necessarily means there'll be an ASIO driver.  You should ask the manufacturer.  JRiver loads the 32-bit ASIO driver (if it exists).

You might also ask the manufacturer to contact me (matt at jriver dot com) so we can write up best-practices for our shared users.

Thanks.

[sirganty]

Thanks for you help Matt

I've got in touch with audio-gd a couple of times since our initial discussion, and am still waiting for a response re ASIO, when they do, I'll see what they think about getting in touch with you directly.

In the meantime, I downloaded foobar2000, and the wasapi and kernel streaming plugins, tested using KS and wasapi (event), and strangely enough both work fine with 32 bit output.

So I can only assume we will get there eventually in MC too, and that the limit is not wasapi specific, but differences in the implementation somehow.

[sirganty]

Hi Matt,

I've had confirmation from the manufacturer that kernel streaming is the best method for communication with my usb32 chip in the dac, and as I previously mentioned, this works in 32 bit mode from within foobar, but not from MC.

I know that asio4all is not a recommended approach, but I wonder if wrapping 32 bit kernel streaming with asio4all will allow me to use 32 bit kernel streaming via asio in MC?
Or maybe asio4all has other known flaws?

[Matt]

I heard from the manufacturer (Amanero Technologies) with regard to this.

I believe with their help 32-bit integer output will work with WASAPI and Kernel Streaming in a coming build of MC18.

If you want to test now, you can install 18.0.68 from here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=75491.0

Then replace out_main.dll in [MC]\Plugins with this file:
http://files.jriver.com/temp/out_main.dll

Please let us know what you find.

[Matt]

I might add that I would recommend WASAPI - Event Style on Vista and newer (as opposed to Kernel Streaming).

[sirganty]

sorry for the delay Matt, had my second baby the day this was posted, so have been kind of occupied!!

seems to be working like a charm with this build and DLL
i'm extremely chuffed!
can i expect this is a full build soon?

thanks very much