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Author Topic: absolute polarity  (Read 7140 times)

Bill_Gaw2

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absolute polarity
« on: December 04, 2012, 06:59:36 pm »

Would it be possible to build in a button to reverse the absolute polarity on all channels while music is playing without having to also change the other room correction values? Thanks, Bill Gaw
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Matt

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2012, 07:06:09 pm »

without having to also change the other room correction values

Are you doing this often for some reason?

Because if it's only once in a while, it doesn't seem too hard to just go through each speaker in Room Correction and check the polarity box.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Bill_Gaw2

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 08:28:57 am »

About 1/3rd of cd's and about 10-15% of DVD's and BluRays are in reversed polarity compared to the polarity of my system. Some early cd's even change polarity every track.
That means that all channels are correct in relation to each other, but reversed in relation to what naturally occurs in nature. Some people, including me, are sensitive to it. It would be nice to have a button on the main page either for room correction or absolute polarity, maybe up near the repeat, shuffle and tool buttons. As it now stands, all of the paramters in room correction get turned on or off at the same time. If one has set up different volume levels for the speakers, then that gets changed also.
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mojave

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 09:39:53 am »

It would probably make sense to add polarity to the PEQ since all other room correction items are basically duplicated there.

Bill, you can create two identical zones, but change the polarity in one zone. If you think the polarity is incorrect, you could play through the other zone to verify. Once you know which songs/albums have reversed polarity you could use a tag to indicate this. Then use the new ZoneSwitch feature to have your songs/albums automatically play in the zone with the correct polarity. You won't even have to think about it anymore.
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Matt

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 03:03:03 pm »

Next build:
NEW: Added 'Reverse polarity' filter to Parametric Filter.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

hulkss

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 09:48:48 pm »

About 1/3rd of cd's and about 10-15% of DVD's and BluRays are in reversed polarity compared to the polarity of my system. Some early cd's even change polarity every track. That means that all channels are correct in relation to each other, but reversed in relation to what naturally occurs in nature. Some people, including me, are sensitive to it.

Bill, how do you make the polarity determination?

I've always felt that polarity might be important, especially with drums, but they are screwed up for sure. Most snare and tom drums are recorded with the microphone on the side that is hit with the drum stick. Bass drums (kick drums) usually have the microphone stuck in through a port in the outside drum head. In one case the first sound pulse is negative pressure, in the other it is positive pressure.
Now what do you do?
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Ancient_Audiophile

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 02:08:23 pm »

Bill, how do you make the polarity determination?

I've always felt that polarity might be important, especially with drums, but they are screwed up for sure. Most snare and tom drums are recorded with the microphone on the side that is hit with the drum stick. Bass drums (kick drums) usually have the microphone stuck in through a port in the outside drum head. In one case the first sound pulse is negative pressure, in the other it is positive pressure.
Now what do you do?
Hulkss - what you are talking about is "phase" not "polarity".  Audio waveforms can 0 to 359 degrees out of phase with each other.

Electrical signals, especially stereo channels, have "polarity".  If you reverse the wires of a speaker's connection to the amp, you have reversed the "polarity".

I am not 100% sure which the OP is referring to, but you are referring to "phase".

See:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/absolutephase.html
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hulkss

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 09:18:16 pm »

It's important to note that polarity reversal is neither time nor frequency dependent. Phase is a result of offsetting a signal in time.

The sound from the underside of a snare drum is out of polarity with the sound from the top. If you mount two microphones the same distance from a drum head on top and bottom the combined signals will cancel even though the drum is radiating many different frequencies.

If you reverse the connection to a microphone you change its signal polarity. In this case the top and bottom microphone signals will add instead of cancel.

If you move one of the microphones towards or away from the drum head you change the phase of the recorded sound. This will cause comb filtering of the combined microphone signal (see illustration).



To get back to Bill's point, I always thought it would be best if all the microphones go positive when various drums are hit. This same positive signal should make your speaker cones move outward into the room for a positive leading pressure wave. That being said the drummer hears all the drums with negative leading pressure waves from his side of the drum heads.  ?
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Bexhill

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2014, 02:29:37 pm »

Next build:
NEW: Added 'Reverse polarity' filter to Parametric Filter.

Matt,
Can we have a keyboard shortcut to this polarity switch.
Yes it will be a great feature, its there on several cd players, as many recording are reversed phase. Getting the phase right in engineering is the hardest thing to do as there are umpteen devices- all flipping phase. Thas why they go around with a phase clicker- a device most audiophiles dont even know exists. My purpose of bringing this to your attention is to go beyond audiophile, which I feel JRiver is, particularly if confired right.

Thanks in advance, matey Matt.

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MrC

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Re: absolute polarity
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2014, 05:31:58 pm »

Matt will be out for a while, so your request may take some time.

Welcome to Interact.
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