Topic: Asus Xonar ST with H6 Q's (Read 8779 times)

dean70 · « **on:** December 07, 2012, 05:39:44 am »

Just finished installing ST with H6 add-on card and I have to physically swap the sub and centre line out connectors to route to the correct channels - is this normal with the ST/H6 card? Running Uni Xonar v1.64 drivers.

re: Op amps - has anyone tried different op amps? I have the stocks ones which seem very forward in the mid-range and not quite as prominent in the upper bass. I have come from an Onkyo/Integra receiver which uses NE5534 op amps throughout which has a "darker" sound & can be a bit harsher in the mids/vocals.

I like the smoothness of the ST/H6, but with already very forward sounding speakers, would like to tone down the mids (and fatten up the upper bass) without losing detail. Suggestions? (I have already used PEQ's to flatten the response already & with the eq disabled it sounds really thin.

nwboater · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2012, 08:11:15 am »

The need to swap sub & Center is normal.

I believe Mojave did some op amp swapping when he used this card. He found different op amps to be less harsh, but I don't remember which ones he went to. If he doesn't chime in here you may want to do a Forum Search on the card - You may find his mention of it.

Cheers,
Rod

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2012, 08:19:32 am »

You can do the swap in the driver as well.

mojave · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2012, 10:27:51 am »

I think I swapped the centre (I'll spell it your way

) and sub channels in the ASUS drivers, but just changing the cables works as well. I'll have to take a look and see which opamps I used. I don't remember and I'm not sure if I ever posted it anywhere.

dean70 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2012, 12:58:47 am »

Looking though the various combos of op-amps, have decided to try 2 x OPA2604AP for I/V and AD8599 for buffer. They are reported to be the most musical and a good electrical match for the stock units. Will see.

nwboater · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2012, 09:20:30 am »

Quote from: dean70 on December 09, 2012, 12:58:47 am

Looking though the various combos of op-amps, have decided to try 2 x OPA2604AP for I/V and AD8599 for buffer. They are reported to be the most musical and a good electrical match for the stock units. Will see.

Please let us know how it works out for you.

Rod

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2012, 12:13:54 pm »

What do these opamps cost and where do you get them (online?)?

dean70 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2012, 03:18:15 pm »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on December 09, 2012, 12:13:54 pm

What do these opamps cost and where do you get them (online?)?

http://www.digikey.com for the 2604's & for AD8599's they are only available in SOIC versions, so they need an adapter to DIP8. You can buy these off eBay already soldered onto the adapter.

Another interesting op amp for the buffer is the MUSE01, which are quite pricey (~$50.00 a piece) & are highly regarded.

Asus have also released a MUSES01 edition of the Xonar Essence One.

edit: the LME49860 is reported to be more dynamic and detailed than the OPA2604. Ordered LT1213's and LME49860's. Looking at the H6 board, doesn't look like the AD8599 with adapter will fit

dean70 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 22, 2012, 01:43:51 am »

Installed the LT1213s in the I/V stage (still waiting on the LME49860s), now have that glorious top end back that seemed to be lacking with the JRC2114s. They seem to have brought out even more detail. Playing my reference test 7.1ch track Transformers Dark of the Moon - never noticed the alien grunting during the opening scene before and have played it dozens of times.

dean70 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2013, 01:14:36 am »

Finally received the LME49860 op-amps. They have brought out more of the micro details - particularly noticeable in quiet passages. Ordered way too many - missed the 4x specified by the seller, now have 12 spare lol

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2013, 01:32:46 am »

How many do you need total then, for the Xonar and HDAV?

If you want to get rid of them, you can PM me with the details I may be interested in taking them from you to test it out.

dean70 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2013, 11:01:39 pm »

You will need 4 for the buffer stage and 8 for I/V. The LME49860 is probably better as a buffer op-amp (according to the application notes on the datasheet).

dean70 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2013, 05:26:07 pm »

After a few days with the LME49860s installed, the sound has a warmer quality with a more prominent bass (but not quite as detailed in the bass, slightly subdued mids (but the low level micro details are more noticeable), treble has a sweeter quality to it. All in all more neutral than the stock card. I found the stock setup horribly bright with bass you can feel, but not hear much due to all that midrange.

Running each step through Rightmark audio analyzer, each showed a flat frequency response, but have markedly different sound quality. Noise level is down & THD slightly higher (like 0.001) with the opamp combo I am using.

nwboater · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2013, 05:49:59 pm »

Dean70 - Thanks very much for the report. Glad that you found a combination that has improved the SQ.

I'm intrigued that the different op amps showed flat frequency response and basically inaudible harmonic distortion yet sound so different. What you are describing doesn't sound subtle so I don't think it's from head games (Please pardon my mentioning that!). Is it possible that your measurement system is flawed? Does it make any sense to you?

In any case it seems that we may have somewhat similar speaker types. Ours are very efficient Klipsch Heritage horns with a Danley DTS-10 Tapped Horn Sub. So you have certainly piqued my interest in doing some op amp swapping.

Cheers,
Rod

dean70 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2013, 07:05:42 pm »

I had an Integra receiver prior running as a DAC/pre-amp to the same amps, speakers prior & this combo sounds closer in timbre to that, but with more detail and less harshness. I guess musical quality is hard to quantify using a bunch of graphs or a single swept tone. I think it comes down to how the op-amp circuit topology behaves when presented with the complex combination of various frequencies in musical passages.

nwboater · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2013, 05:26:47 pm »

Quote from: dean70 on January 12, 2013, 07:05:42 pm

I had an Integra receiver prior running as a DAC/pre-amp to the same amps, speakers prior & this combo sounds closer in timbre to that, but with more detail and less harshness. I guess musical quality is hard to quantify using a bunch of graphs or a single swept tone. I think it comes down to how the op-amp circuit topology behaves when presented with the complex combination of various frequencies in musical passages.

I plan to place an order for the LME49860 Op Amps. I have an Essence St with H6 Daughter card. If I understand you correctly from above I will need 12 total. Is that right? I will probably order a few extras in case I goof on the swap with any of them. Haven't swapped any chips in over 20 years.

Also you mentioned getting extras because of not noticing that the quantities were 4x. I plan to buy from Digikey. At this page http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LME49860NA%2FNOPB/LME49860NA%2FNOPB-ND/1647710 Standard packaging is 40, but it seems that they sell them by the 'unit'. Am I missing something? Or did you buy them elsewhere?

I trust you are still pleased with the sound and consider this a worthwhile upgrade.

Thanks for your help here.

Rod

dean70 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2013, 07:39:05 pm »

Quote from: nwboater on January 13, 2013, 05:26:47 pm

I plan to place an order for the LME49860 Op Amps. I have an Essence St with H6 Daughter card. If I understand you correctly from above I will need 12 total. Is that right? I will probably order a few extras in case I goof on the swap with any of them. Haven't swapped any chips in over 20 years.

Also you mentioned getting extras because of not noticing that the quantities were 4x. I plan to buy from Digikey. At this page http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LME49860NA%2FNOPB/LME49860NA%2FNOPB-ND/1647710 Standard packaging is 40, but it seems that they sell them by the 'unit'. Am I missing something? Or did you buy them elsewhere?

I trust you are still pleased with the sound and consider this a worthwhile upgrade.

Thanks for your help here.

Rod

I got them off ebay. I only used these for the buffer stage (4 pieces), the other 8 are for the I/V stage from the DAC outputs (I used LT1213 here). Note sure how the LME49860 would go as the I/V conversion - they have a higher settling time & the application notes only mentions for use in low noise/low distortion pre-amp applications. There is a big thread on head-fi.com with various other combos that have been tried.

You can also order sample quantities from the manufactures I think.

nwboater · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2013, 07:59:36 pm »

Thanks a lot Dean - I'll check out the Head-Fi thread.

Cheers,
Rod

dean70 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2013, 05:25:30 am »

Have taken the audio quality to the next level. Removed more of unnecessary Windows components, disabled all services that are not required, tweaked the PriorityControl settings in the registry, disabled swap file & adjusted process priorities so that all non service processes are set to low and Media Center 18.exe is set to high. Turned off use large buffers for audio under Options & enabled memory play. Sound quality is cleaner & was getting the odd pop before, which is now gone.

JRMark has increased from 1750-1800~ to consistent 1900+.

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2013, 07:15:50 am »

Quote from: dean70 on January 18, 2013, 05:25:30 am

Have taken the audio quality to the next level. Removed more of unnecessary Windows components, disabled all services that are not required, tweaked the PriorityControl settings in the registry, disabled swap file & adjusted process priorities so that all non service processes are set to low and Media Center 18.exe is set to high. Turned off use large buffers for audio under Options & enabled memory play. Sound quality is cleaner & was getting the odd pop before, which is now gone.

Just to be clear, we do not recommend doing this. It is not necessary.

dean70 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2013, 05:28:37 pm »

Actually on the AMD htpc setup it has stopped the DPC Latency spikes to 450us - now is at a more consistent 280us, which is still very high. Did a quick check on my Core i5 desktop and i7 Notebook and they are both in the 100-200us mark.

Pretty disappointed with AMD processors performance wise. The math tests in JRMark are 8 times slower than a Core i5. It will be the last AMD CPU I will buy.

edit: it was the power now function enabled in the bios. Disabled and now DPC latency is around the 100us mark.

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Author Topic: Asus Xonar ST with H6 Q's (Read 8779 times)